Earth Elementals and Reposition

[Kierato]

Could an earth elemental use the reposition combat maneuver to bury someone?

[spalding]

Do you mean with earth glide? If so the answer is no. Earth glide is a *bit* like being incorporeal -- you don't make a hole (it specifically states this) and don't actually disturb the material you are moving through. You also don't grant this ability to what you are touch/fighting/grabbing either. Therefore you don't have a means of getting one solid object (the target) through another solid object (the ground) in order to trap them.

[Kierato]

OK, so how about creatures that can burrow?

[Abraham spalding]

If they have a tunnel or somewhere that you can move -- reposition doesn't allow them to disobey the laws of "physics" (such as they are in the game) anymore than earth glide does.

Also there is this line in the reposition maneuver:

Rules wrote:

You cannot use this maneuver to move a foe into a space that is intrinsically dangerous, such as a pit or wall of fire.

[Kierato]

At which point one could rule the maneuver is useless, any square near an enemy can be considered intrinsically dangerous.
EDIT:Thank you for the input.

[james maissen]

Kierato wrote:

At which point one could rule the maneuver is useless, any square near an enemy can be considered intrinsically dangerous.

Only if the enemy was intrinsic to the square...

-James

[Abraham spalding]

Kierato wrote:

At which point one could rule the maneuver is useless, any square near an enemy can be considered intrinsically dangerous.

EDIT:Thank you for the input.

Not at all -- the square must be intrinsically dangerous to the creature -- putting you into flanking wouldn't be a function of the square, it would be a function of the situation. Moving you under something that might fall by the end of the round isn't a danger intrinsic to the square, it's a danger based on what's around the square.

A trap might be more of a problem but if you don't know it's there, or if they don't know it's there I would allow it as a GM.

The question you have to ask yourself is: Could this space kill or injury me if no combat is going on. If the answer is yes you can't reposition them into it -- if the answer is no then you can.

Also if it's a salamander and you are repositioning him into a pool of lava -- that's not dangerous to him so you could do it.

[Stubs McKenzie]

Which is silly because you can reposition him there, but the salamander couldn't do the same to you. Barring that, if your dm rules that using a burrow speed permenantly displaces dirt then you can reposition someone into a hole that you dig with a burrow speed, as the hole does not put that creature in any immediate danger. If your dm rules that earth is not permanently displaced, then you cannot, as you would be burying the creature alive.

In short, ask your dm how he wants the burrow speed to work normally, and to help him and you out, remind him that whatever the decision, that if he wants it to work differently for certain creatures he should spell that out beforehand.

Note: that doesn't mean your dm has to tell you about all the monsters he plans on throwing at you, just that once you encounter it, make a verbal note to the group of how it moves through the terrain.

[Abraham spalding]

Excellent point on the noting movement Stubs -- and if the GM is going to change how in the middle of the fight he should note that too "It was leaving tunnels but now it's not."

[Kierato]

I see, thank you for the replies. So, I could use reposition to bury someone up to their neck, it wouldn't hurt them and they may be able to get out, right?

[Stubs McKenzie]

As a DM i would say no, because while you can move someone in 5 ft increments, it does not mean you can position their body any which way you want, they are still fighting against you, per the CMB/CMD check. Moving a medium creature 5ft into the ground is effectively burying them. I would allow you to move a 10x5 ft creature (tall) 5 ft into the ground, and would then rule they would gain the grappled condition, but it would be a house ruling, nothing official.

EDIT: its not that i wouldnt allow something like that to happen at all, but I dont think I would allow it with reposition... maybe once you have pinned someone, then moved them, but not sure on that, would have to play test it.

[Kierato]

To Stubs: That is an idea, use the grapple/pinned rules to bury someone...