So, a bastard sword, when used with the EWP feat, is a one handed weapon.
A Large bastard sword becomes a two handed weapon. I am assuming that the EWP is still required to use it two handed.
1) Is this interpretation correct?
2) What are the costs of Large versions of weapons?
3) If Cheesy McRanger using a Large bastard sword casts Lead Blade on himself, the damage goes to 4d6?!
4) If Goober the Transformation Mage casts Enlarge Cheese Weasel on Cheesy McRanger, at the same time that Cheesy uses LeadBlades, how much damage does that thing do? 6d6 per hit?!?
1. It seems to work that way to me to.
2. I thought they were double the base price, but I can't seem to find the rule in pathfinder.
3 and 4. The size progression is 1d10, 2d8(large sword), 3d8(+lead blades), 4d8(+enlarge)
The size progression is from the PRD
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A Large bastard sword is a one-handed weapon for a Large creature proficient with it, or a two-handed martial weapon for a Large creature not proficient with it.
1) Yes, a Medium character with EWP (bastard sword) can use it two-handed with a -2 penalty, but other Medium creatures can't use the weapon at all.
2) A Large weapon costs twice as much as a Medium weapon (p. 144).
3) edit: agree with wraithstrike. As it happens, the maximum damage is the same.
4) edit: Seems as if they should stack for melee weapons. Lead blades and enlarge person are transmutation spells, but not polymorph spells which would prevent having more than one such effect at a time. Lead blades doesn't change the actual size of the weapon, so it gets around the rule that only one spell can change your size, presuming that "you" can denote an object. Not sure where the PRD would get 3d8 -> 4d8, I read the table on p. 145 as 3d8 -> 6d6.
A Large bastard sword is a one-handed weapon for a Large creature proficient with it, or a two-handed martial weapon for a Large creature not proficient with it.
1) Yes, a Medium character with EWP (bastard sword) can use it two-handed with a -2 penalty, but other Medium creatures can't use the weapon at all.
2) A Large weapon costs twice as much as a Medium weapon (p. 144).
3) edit: agree with wraithstrike. As it happens, the maximum damage is the same.
4) edit: Seems as if they should stack for melee weapons. Lead blades and enlarge person are transmutation spells, but not polymorph spells which would prevent having more than one such effect at a time. Lead blades doesn't change the actual size of the weapon, so it gets around the rule that only one spell can change your size, presuming that "you" can denote an object. Not sure where the PRD would get 3d8 -> 4d8, I read the table on p. 145 as 3d8 -> 6d6.
PRD: A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10(medium bastard sword), 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
The medium bastard sword is my input. The dice increases are copied and pasted though.
Ah, reminds me of my first fighter...
Except I kept him medium sized. I was later asked not to wield my large bastard sword anymore. :P
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So, a bastard sword, when used with the EWP feat, is a one handed weapon.
A Large bastard sword becomes a two handed weapon. I am assuming that the EWP is still required to use it two handed.
1) Is this interpretation correct?
Not exactly.
A bastard sword is an exotic one-handed weapon. A large bastard sword is an exotic two-handed weapon for a medium creature.
Any Medium creature can use a medium bastard sword one handed. Any Medium creature can use a large bastard sword as a two handed weapon with a -2 penalty. If the medium creature doesn't have EWP (bastard sword), he takes a -4 non-proficiency penalty in addition for either of these uses. So, the Medium guy without EWP can still use the large bastard sword two handed, he just does so at -6.
A bastard sword can also be used two-handed by a creature of correct size as a martial weapon. An oversized bastard sword cannot be used this way without additional rules resources.
So, by extension, a Dwarven Ranger who wanted to use an oversized Dwarven Waraxe two handed (he gets the 1 handed proficiency for free as a partial weapon) could do so for the same damage curve/spike.
Oy. I think this may be a bit game breaking...
So, by extension, a Dwarven Ranger who wanted to use an oversized Dwarven Waraxe two handed (he gets the 1 handed proficiency for free as a partial weapon) could do so for the same damage curve/spike.
Oy. I think this may be a bit game breaking...
The dwarf won't be large all day long, and it is not that much extra damage. I still think an archer could outdamage him from a safe range. I have not run any numbers to verify that though.
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Oy. I think this may be a bit game breaking...
If you're of this opinion, then as a DM make it go away and/or don't use it. If a player, don't do it. Why intentionally use something you view as game breaking?
Whether it is game breaking is a matter of game style.
I know you've been looking at PFS options. If using it there, do the GM the favor of explaining the tactic to her during prep rather than springing it on her in combat. Don't be surprised to see some table variation stemming from the enlarge person prohibition on multiple size increases (even if lead blades doesn't actually change size). And, if looking to use it prior to spell availability for your ranger, remember that it's a personal spell; it can't go into a potion, but can go into a wand, which a ranger 1 can use.
(edit: corrected sentence splice)
I am probably going to hold off on using it for PFS play, to be honest. I think the permutation of Lead Blades and Enlarge Person in concert would be unpleasant for anyone else at the table, and would make the GM pull her hair out.
With an 18 STR, Heirloom Weapon and Power Attack, with no buffs, he's swinging at +1+1+1+4-3=+4 to hit for 2d8+9. 17 points a hit for expected damage is one shot kill up to about 2HD.
It is good, but I would not say game breaking.
A raging barbarian power attacking with a greatsword is probably at something like +6 to hit, for 2d6+12. He is also going to have like 18hp or something.
A half-orc bard, power attacking (OK, can't get that till level 3, but...) is going to be something like +5 to hit, for 1d12+10 with bard song going.
It kicks a little too much ass at level 1, but isn't really much better until you start getting multiple attacks and a strength increasing item.
With a Wand of Lead Blade, said ranger is doing 3d8+9 at 2nd level. With party assistance (Enlarge Person) on top of it, he's doing 4d8+10.
In PFS play, he can get that wand around 2nd level, possibly sooner...
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From Core Rules book.
p149 Sword, Bastard: A bastard sword is about 4 feet in length,
making it too large to use in one hand without special
training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a
bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
p144 Inappropriately Sized Weapons: The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered
by one step for each size category of difference between
the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the
weapon was designed.
For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to
something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by
this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
Reading the two I would say that a Bastard sword is a two handed weapon, being too large to weild in one hand without special training. So if you enlarge it it falls outside the designation of of light, one-handed, or two-handed.
This is further supported by the Dwarven Waraxe description:
p149 Waraxe, Dwarven: A dwarven waraxe has a large, ornate head mounted to a thick handle, making it too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A Medium character can use a dwarven waraxe two-handed as a martial weapon, or a Large creature can use it one-handed in the same way. A dwarf treats a dwarven waraxe as a martial weapon even when using it in one hand.
Thus a large Dwarven Waraxe would be a one-handed weapon for a HUGE creature, 2 handed for a LARGE (unless it had the proficiency) and unweildable for a MEDIUM creature.
The boards seem to assume that a large bastard sword can be used as an exotic weapon in two hands if you have the feat to use it, so I may be wrong. Amiri the iconic barbarian is supposed to use a Frost Giants Bastard Sword, but the only description of her I could find had it listed as a Greatsword
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/tags/amiri/v5748dyo5laeb
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I have always found the resizing of weapons strange however. Why use a bastard sword if you don't have the feat. Just use a small Greatsword, still 1d10 damage and only a -2 penalty...
What happens if your greatsword weilding halfling becomes medium? Why does the greatsword not do 2d8 damage?
I liked the 3.0 version where a weapon had a size and the use depended on the size of the weilder, Hobbit style...
In PFS play, he can get that wand around 2nd level, possibly sooner...
Hmmm. That does seem a little too powerful...
Seems like there should be something about lead blades and enlarge person not working perhaps...
Are you sure a 1st level Ranger wand is available that early? Seems like a wand of resist energy, bless weapon, or hideous laughter (for a bard) could be a little too much...
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In PFS play, he can get that wand around 2nd level, possibly sooner...
Hmmm. That does seem a little too powerful...
Seems like there should be something about lead blades and enlarge person not working perhaps...
Some of the goodness is consumed by the actions required to make the whole thing happen. Depending on the circumstances: draw weapon, draw wand, use wand, drop/sheath wand..."
Are you sure a 1st level Ranger wand is available that early? Seems like a wand of resist energy, bless weapon, or hideous laughter (for a bard) could be a little too much...
In PFS, if there are multiple costs due to spell level and caster level, wand/potion/scroll are assumed to be made by wizard/cleric/druid. So, cheap wands of resist energy, bless weapon, hideous laguhter, lesser restoration, etc. aren't available at all.
Wands of spells that are other classes only...I'm actually not sure. It may be worded in a way that means you can't get them at all; I don't recall. The system for distributing these rules for the campaign is not particularly good at the moment. If available, it would take 9 PA, which is generally toward the end of 2nd level or beginning of 3rd.
Wands of spells that are other classes only...I'm actually not sure. It may be worded in a way that means you can't get them at all; I don't recall. The system for distributing these rules for the campaign is not particularly good at the moment. If available, it would take 9 PA, which is generally toward the end of 2nd level or beginning of 3rd.
This has been answered a few times:
All wands are purchased (regardless of spell) as if they were made by a Wizard of the appropriate minimum level to cast the spell at whatever level it appears at in the class list.
EG, a 1st level spell is always a 750 GP wand, regardless of the list or caster type it's from, a 2nd level spell is always 4,500 GP, a third level spell is always 11,250, and a 4th level spell is always 21,000 GP. For the handful of spells that are lower level or higher level in different lists, the lowest level is used for calculating the price of the wand.
Basically, wands for everyone other than Wizard and Cleric got cheaper, to make the accounting for gear easier, so this is a 750 GP wand, and is a 2 PA item.
I think the spell is cool, but problematic in combination with Enlarge Person.
I have always found the resizing of weapons strange however. Why use a bastard sword if you don't have the feat. Just use a small Greatsword, still 1d10 damage and only a -2 penalty...
What happens if your greatsword weilding halfling becomes medium? Why does the greatsword not do 2d8 damage?
I liked the 3.0 version where a weapon had a size and the use depended on the size of the weilder, Hobbit style...
I ended up houseruling it for my game, to avoid headaches.
1->1d2->1d3->1d4->1d6->1d8->1d10->2d6->3d6->4d6- >6d6->8d6->12d6->(N-1*1.5)d6
Then anything that did 1d12 got switched to 2d6. 2d4 got mapped to 1d8.
Now, resize all you want, you just move the weapon to the left or right along the same scale. A little less variety in weapon damages, but a lot easier to keep track of. I should note I had a deurger in my game, and a half-dragon paladin with powerful build using large weapons all the time.
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Yes, it works, and no, it's not that impressive. -2 attack rolls (size difference penalty) for +3.5 damage (1d10=5.5, 2d8=9, 9-5.5=3.5) just doesn't make that big a difference.
It's also 100% legit; it's so completely within the rules, in fact, that Amiri, the Female Human Iconic Barbarian staring back at you from the barbarian class page/section, is using a Size Large Bastard Sword.
Definitely within the rules, definitely not game-breaking. Have fun.
So, a Dwarf Barbarian at 1st level (+1 to hit)with Power Attack (-1 to hit +3 damge) and 18 str (+4 to hit +6 damage) during Rage (+2 to Hit +3 Damage)with a large dwarven waraxe (-2 to hit)comes out to a base of:
+4 to Hit +14 damage + 2d8
= +4 to hit + 16-30damage
VS.
A Dwarf Barbarian at 1st level (+1 to hit)with Power Attack (-1 to hit +3 damge) and 18 str (+4 to hit +6 damage) during Rage (+2 to Hit +3 Damage)with a greatsword comes out to a base of:
+6 to Hit +14 damage + 2d6
= +6 to hit +16-26 damage
So the trade off is - 10% chance to hit for the posibility of 4 more damage?
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All this talk of Large Bastard Swords makes me miss my Fullblade.
So, a bastard sword, when used with the EWP feat, is a one handed weapon.
A Large bastard sword becomes a two handed weapon. I am assuming that the EWP is still required to use it two handed.
1) Is this interpretation correct?
Yes. Without ewp the bastard sword goes from two handed to too big.
2) What are the costs of Large versions of weapons?
I believe double that of a regular version.
3) If Cheesy McRanger using a Large bastard sword casts Lead Blade on himself, the damage goes to 4d6?!
Nope. 1d10 base goes to 2d8 (large) 4d8 (huge)
4) If Goober the Transformation Mage casts Enlarge Cheese Weasel on Cheesy McRanger, at the same time that Cheesy uses LeadBlades, how much damage does that thing do? 6d6 per hit?!?
then its 6d8. Relax, that's three actions and two spells from your party members who could have done more with a fireball or SOD. It's only worth it on long fights, or fights
The Fullblade is the BOMB!!!! 1 Feat for 2d8 damage, thats what I'm talking about.
I would rule that with EWP and Monkey Grip a medium character ought to be able to weild a large bastard sword
I`m a bit confused by the rules. How would the weapon damage increase for my enlarged fighter wielding a huge scythe (strongarm bracers*)with lead blade? (base damage 2d4)
* strongarm bracers makes you able to wield weapons as if you were one size category larger than normal. Page 139, Magic Item Compendium.
Bump?
Thanks =)