I see, but the only incongruity that I see is that you should not be getting your con bonus at first level as you do not roll.
I see, but the only incongruity that I see is that you should not be getting your con bonus at first level as you do not roll.
Without the extra phrase, it could easily be argued that con changes are not retroactive.
Your point also demonstrates that it is likely always better to interpret RAW with RAI in mind.
Sorry mdt, I think you've got it confused
If you put on a headband, you get 3 ranks from it. If you already had two ranks in it, those ranks aren't taken from you. If they were, you'd be off ranks for your level, or you'd be able to move them to another skill.
Thus, you have five ranks in stealth. It's just that you only get credit for the maximum at your current level, or 3. The other two don't magically disappear, they're simply not available for use.
Let's read the text.
They do not stack. Every time you gain a level, you gain a rank in the skill that is associated with the headband. These skill ranks can be used for PrC requirements, but remember, if you lose the item and no longer meet the PrC prerequirements, you lose ALL of your PrC class features.
Check this out:
Perception is the skill associated to the HoVI the lich wears.
the point of the ranks from the headband is to allow you to easily keep track of skillnpoint benefit. it does not add to your existing ranks. you just take the better of the two.
met I understand what you are saying I just disagree.
btw sorry for typos I make a lot on the iPad.
Con changes to HD is retroactive, see Constitution pg. 16 and Barbarian Pg. 32.I am aware that the changes to constituton are retroactive. However, I was quoting from the book, where it says that you gain your con modifier for each roll of a HD. Later in the constitution entry, it goes on to say that the changes are retroactive, for good or bad.
I was attempting to illustrate that the language is a bit contradictory for some sections, and that some have had clarifications brought to them, such as the extra phrase at the end of the constitution entry. This is what a few of us are stating and are trying to communicate to Dabbler -that the language is a bit ambigious and more than one interpretation can result.
I would have to disallow the Barbarian reference thought, as that reference explains how rage works and could be explained away as a specific rule trumping a generic rule.
The point here is that while the wording may be unclear in one place on constitution, the rules in another place include wording that makes it very clear indeed. In the case of languages, the rules only mention gaining bonus languages in one place, and make clear this is only at the start of game. After this, there are no other mentions of bonus languages at all, and languages are only gained from using the Linguistics skill.
That is what makes me consider that 'bonus languages' are an exception to gaining languages from the Linguistics skill rather than being an exception to modifiers being applied retroactively. The Intelligence modifier is used once at character creation as an exception to the normal rules, after that not at all.
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I tend to take a more "role" playing view on the bonus languages. The bonus languages had to be learned over time. The INT modifier is just a way to quantify how many of those you were able to master. Getting a magical enhancement to you intellect, does not automatically grant you knowledge you don't already have. Of course, this doesn't explain the extra skill points granted by an INT boost, but nothing is perfect ;-). After character creation, I do not think that an increase in INT would grant you additional bonus languages.
I tend to take a more "role" playing view on the bonus languages. The bonus languages had to be learned over time. The INT modifier is just a way to quantify how many of those you were able to master. Getting a magical enhancement to you intellect, does not automatically grant you knowledge you don't already have. Of course, this doesn't explain the extra skill points granted by an INT boost, but nothing is perfect ;-). After character creation, I do not think that an increase in INT would grant you additional bonus languages.
If you used a wish to increase your int by one and gain a +1 to it's mod, you wouldn't immediately gain the skill points. You gain them at the next level. This shows you're learning more things faster with the higher int. Some things that were beyond you before suddenly make sense where they didn't before.
A bonus language would work the same way, you get it at next level. This gives your character time to have learned the language as he was traveling.
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If you used a wish to increase your int by one and gain a +1 to it's mod, you wouldn't immediately gain the skill points. You gain them at the next level. This shows you're learning more things faster with the higher int. Some things that were beyond you before suddenly make sense where they didn't before.
A bonus language would work the same way, you get it at next level. This gives your character time to have learned the language as he was traveling.
Where is this rule? Per p.555 Permanent Bonuses, it would appear that after 24 hours, the ability increase would immediately grant the related bonuses. What does gaining a level have to do with it?
Where is this rule? Per p.555 Permanent Bonuses, it would appear that after 24 hours, the ability increase would immediately grant the related bonuses. What does gaining a level have to do with it?If you used a wish to increase your int by one and gain a +1 to it's mod, you wouldn't immediately gain the skill points. You gain them at the next level. This shows you're learning more things faster with the higher int. Some things that were beyond you before suddenly make sense where they didn't before.
A bonus language would work the same way, you get it at next level. This gives your character time to have learned the language as he was traveling.
I'm fairly certain James or Jason one clarified this in a thread, but there's so many threads on this (my search came up with a dozen on the first page, and dozens of pages more) that I can't find it at the moment.
If for no other reason, it makes sense to distribute the skill points when you normally get skill points, which is when you level up. It at least stops the disconnnect of suddenly gaining a skill rank in a skill you didn't have before because you got smarter. :) IE: gives you time to put that new int to use to learn things.
My philosophy is, when you boost the int, it's like putting the brain into overdrive for a short time, resulting in a boost of learning potential (that just happens to correspond to the number of skill ranks you gain retroactively). :)
After three days of cruising the boards I'm even more convinced that stat boost is a detractor to the actual game.
After three days of cruising the boards I'm even more convinced that stat boost is a detractor to the actual game.
+1
I tend to take a more "role" playing view on the bonus languages. The bonus languages had to be learned over time. The INT modifier is just a way to quantify how many of those you were able to master. Getting a magical enhancement to you intellect, does not automatically grant you knowledge you don't already have. Of course, this doesn't explain the extra skill points granted by an INT boost, but nothing is perfect ;-). After character creation, I do not think that an increase in INT would grant you additional bonus languages.If you used a wish to increase your int by one and gain a +1 to it's mod, you wouldn't immediately gain the skill points. You gain them at the next level. This shows you're learning more things faster with the higher int. Some things that were beyond you before suddenly make sense where they didn't before.
A bonus language would work the same way, you get it at next level. This gives your character time to have learned the language as he was traveling.
Except that stat modifiers don't work this way, an inherent bonus you gain the benefit at once, an item bonus kicks in after 24 hours. That gradual learning on level up is as easily represented (if not more so) by taking a level of Linguistics in any event.
There's nothing wrong with stat boosters at all, they are a feature of gaining levels.
I meant stat boosting items, btw...