I'm currently playing a bard of Calistria who has recently... shall we say acquired an apprentice of sorts, a willing initiate of the faith. Two, actually, but one is slightly more eager to learn than the other appears.
A problem arises when I read the supplemental information available in The Second Darkness #17. Calistria's faith is CN, but there is training mandated for her priests and sacred prostitutes. I as a player of my CG character see this as an opportunity to scare the NPC straight and off the honeyed scent of the tricksey Elven goddess of just as soon crush the throat of the one who worships Her if his or her voice happens to offend at that moment. The NPC priests and followers of Her my bard has encountered are, well... self absorbed at best, or just plain CE monsters wearing humanoid skins (think MiB "Edgar suit). She views her faith as a test of her character, and her will to do good considering the collective sigh and disinterest of the entirety of Her church. She's recently chosen to retain that faith at a fairly high personal cost of maybe someday acknowledging the feelings of a boy who had every appearance of loving her.
Second problem is the whole issue of "love." In the first portion of the supplemental, it says the goddess Herself spurns emotional attachment. It is made perfectly clear that lust is the object, and to indulge in affection is almost an offense. Then under the aphorism section I stab at thee with all my heart it reads "in the rare cases where members of the church pursue a genuine love, couples often use this as a form of vow between them to indicate the strength and sincerity of their feeling," and then directly beneath that it reads Love the Food, Not the Chef. I'm left wondering what the deal is here. I'm left wondering if the ambiguity was intentional to drive roleplayers mad, or poor editing.
My character as a young, silly and good-aligned bard is rather prone to developing affection for those she shares Her worship with, to the point her naieve wisdom 8 heart breaks when she gets dumped which is quite often. To date there have been... well, has been one serious contender for her heart with another strong contender in the works, and I guess I really just want some more thoughts on this issue.
...ambiguity...
Chaotic Neutral.
Ambiguous.
Ambivalent.
Contradictory.
Pursue pleasure, but don't get trapped by it.
Punish your enemies. Make them *need* you while you point and laugh at their weakness.
Your heart is most fragile in the hands of another. Don't be vulnerable.
For my part, I see Calstria as the eternal 15 year old. Just learning what she can do and always angry, especially when she is denied. Never at fault, and always looking out for her short sighted desires. She is the essence of selfishness.
Go with your gut and have a blast. Maybe your naive bard will find how to harden her heart and 'better serve' Calistria. Or maybe she will just be the little heartbreaker ;)
GNOME
Or to use a musical analogy, both of the singers in this song could be worshipers of Calistria:
;)
I suspect in the issue of Love where Calistra is concerned it doesnt matter if it is requited love or not. i think this is more pertinent in the statement "i stab at thee with all my heart" Given that the other person doesnt have to feel the same way to do this.
Secondly Love the Food not the Chef may be a focus on the physical acts of Love (Ie Sex) Rather than the Love Aspect. It could also make the act of Love a little more selfish.
Ie in this case the food being 'what do i get when the chef (the person i love) "cooks" me something?' So Sex and the Emotional things they Give you.
Really im just Writing this as it occurs to me here based onw hat you said.
Yeah, she'd basically make the best bard priest of Cayden there ever were and be an incredibly passionate champion of freedom of choice, a strong voice for non exploitative governance, and a declared enemy of those who prey on women and children. Just so happens she has all the wisdom of an exceptionally charismatic adolescent girl, and is instead the crappest priestess of Calistria there ever were.
It's been a very interesting character to play who knows that her goddess is vain and cruel, and that the majority of the people who follow Her are complete garbage, but she just keeps slamming her damn head against the glass ceiling trying to prove herself worthy. Her idea of trickery is agreeing to everything people want her to do for the in with whatever group is likely to be wronged, and working against it. Vengeance thus far has been limited to very public shaming, which is extremely effective in a highly social/political campaign.
There's an extremely charismatic, rough and tumble, no-nonsense oracle of Cayden in party now who is secure enough in himself to challenge her b*@$#%&~. Can't wait to see how things develop between them.
...cool campaign stuff...
Sounds pretty awesome, really. :) Maybe Miss Bard should get close to the Oracle, and 'make such great strides in bettering herself' that when she reverts to form, it just breaks his heart? Wickedness can be so divine ;) Maybe his presence is her real test from Calistria?
Otherwise it sounds like the movie, "Mean Girls" lol
But, is Calistria cruel, or simply so mercurial she is sometimes cruel?
GNOME
A Calistrian love story.
A man in a troubled marriage approached a Calistrian priest with his concerns. The priest gave him The Book of Joy, and told him to read it with his wife. The husband and wife read the book, and experimented over the course of the next three months. Over the years their prowess under the covers only became more energetic, inspired and enthusiastic. It is of no import that the marriage disolved after the first month, and they never shared a bed together again.
I really like the idea of her being the fifteen year old with great capacity for good and bad. Kinda reminds me of Katie Kaboom from The Animaniacs. Though, Katie really did not have a good side.
Greg
I think that there is the reason Calistria is CN and not CG. She's ultimately selfish. It's all about her pleasure, regardless of how it hurts others. If her pleasure helps you, that's cool. But sometimes she will do things to please herself that might drive a spike through your heart.
She is the ultimate mean girl. It wouldn't take much to view her as CE, either.
To contrast, take Shelyn, the epitome of true love and beauty. Hers is a spiritual love and passion that is considerate and compassionate first and foremost.
Love sought for the good of yourself vs love sought for the good of others.
Sounds pretty awesome, really. :) Maybe Miss Bard should get close to the Oracle, and 'make such great strides in bettering herself' that when she reverts to form, it just breaks his heart? Wickedness can be so divine ;) Maybe his presence is her real test from Calistria?
GNOME
Aaah, but player knowledge kinda explains when it is taken into consideration that Cayden's "accidental" herald Thais was a courtesan.
Calistria's favor is pretty evident in campaign as her adventuring party of four works extremely well together in and out of combat, if you know what I mean and I think you do. But, she's been on the precipice of losing her faith before, and it was rather "Meh, so I'll have someone who won't treat me like a piece of meat at the cost of carrying around some memories that really aren't that great." 'Cept maybe the next time she'll be a little more careful with her choice because there's an evil fey looking to destroy her soul so she can possess her body and cause all sorts of mayhem.
It's all about the illusion of the freedom of choice.
|
Calistria isn't cruel, she's capricious.
I imagine that a CG worshipper of Calistria would, after the first few failed romances (and don't most of us start off with a few failed romances?) decide that he/she is still going to fall in love but that he/she understands that love can run its course.
They may temporarily love X or Y but what they really love is being in love and when it turns sour they don't try to 'save' relationship, they just make sure that the good days far outnumber the bad.
If your character conceives of love as a life-long attachment then they've probably not been raised in the church and/or paid much attention to Calistria's teachings.
It's been a very interesting character to play who knows that her goddess is vain and cruel, and that the majority of the people who follow Her are complete garbage...The NPC priests and followers of Her my bard has encountered are, well... self absorbed at best, or just plain CE monsters wearing humanoid skins...
It might be that the problem is your GM.
If your GM is doing his/her best to portray a faith that is Neutral on the good/evil axis and as an evil faith then it is going to cause massive problems for your character and is an (perhaps inadvertent) attempt to undermine your character by your GM.
How can Kyonin survive as a CG nation with this interpretation of Calistria?
So, remembering that the article in Second Darkness is for GMs, not players, perhaps you should try looking at your faith with Paizo's Inner Sea Companion (a guide for players) as your starting point. It says:
Calistria (CN), called the Savored Sting, is the goddess
of lust, revenge, and luck — a trickster with an audacious
spirit. Because of her mercurial nature, she is the favored
goddess of the elves, but she also appeals to spies,
prostitutes, and thrill-seekers, who see in her a reflection
of their own desires.
No mention there of innate tendency to cruelty, or of a vile and essentially CE clergy.
Perhaps you need to talk to your GM about rebooting Calistria, or accept that you can't be a CG follower of your GM's version of Calistria because that version of Calistria is CE, not CN.
|
Personally, I can't help but consider Calistria much nicer than the allegedly CG Findeladlara.
Another CG angle for Calistrians to throw at your GM: Karmic Tricksters. They love to deflate the egos of the vain, even as it comes back to bite them in the ass from tiem to time. Huge on what they see as poetic justice, especially along the lines of "you get what you give", but they see their trickery and acts of vengeance not simply as retribution for those that deserve it, but also as valuable lessons that need to be learned the hard way.
This can extend to lovers, ex-lovers, unfaithful lovers, etc....
Such an outlook could easily slip into pure self-righteous CN behavior, but it's certainly viable for truly good CG characters.
The GM here. I am not portraying Calistria as CE. It is three CE bastards who follow her who give her a bad rep, just like the Westborough Baptists give God a bad rep.
She conveniently leaves out the good, and horde of neutral followers she has met. They are there too. Some of them are a little crazy, sure, but the CE people who serve as antagonists, basically crafted to test her faith and portray all sides of the spectrum equally comes more into focus in her mind. Besides, this is set in Pitax, bard capital, where everyone is at least a little fake, and there are always some enchantments going. And right outside is one of the most fey-ridden areas in all Golarion.
Few things are what they really seems.
|
|
The GM here. I am not portraying Calistria as CE. It is three CE bastards who follow her who give her a bad rep, just like the Westborough Baptists give God a bad rep.
She conveniently leaves out the good, and horde of neutral followers she has met. They are there too. Some of them are a little crazy, sure, but the CE people who serve as antagonists, basically crafted to test her faith and portray all sides of the spectrum equally comes more into focus in her mind. Besides, this is set in Pitax, bard capital, where everyone is at least a little fake, and there are always some enchantments going. And right outside is one of the most fey-ridden areas in all Golarion.
Few things are what they really seems.
My bad.
I suppose it's not too unusual for negative associations to occupy more headspace than the rest.
Perhaps said character needs to go on a Calistran retreat and get back in touch with her deity without the interference of unpleasant members of the clergy.
Character knowledge that the cathedral of Calistria in Pitax is not a good place:
Her former lover, an inquisitor of Iomedae had just abandoned her in his pursuit of justice and asked her to run a diversion. Her idea of diversion is to run straight to the cathedral to offer her prayers to her goddess. She's worshiping at the feet of her divine patron, rolled a pretty high oratory for her prayer when a former city guard looking middle aged man in breastplate wielding a bastard sword breaks in demanding to know where his sweet little daughter is. My bard at that point was equipped with a sap, and... her faith. She rolls some godly diplomacy and manages to talk the angry dad down and get the information she needs to find "daughter," and comes to the conclusion that daughter has been spirited away by someone she has met before, one of those hotly contested CE followers of her.
So, the goodly girl that she is, she runs through the cathedral screaming "daughter's name" and eventually some good natured pro points her in the right direction, presumably to shut her up so they can conduct business in peace. She finds daughter with said CE follower. Daughter is extremely slow to respond. CE follower says and I am mostly quoting from memory here because this is how big of a cad this guy is "I hate it when they talk." My bard grabs the girl, and her stuff and starts to pull her out of the reach of CE cad, who looks to his remaining drugged companion and says "I suppose you'll have to do then," insinuating that he's all sorts of disappointed that my bard didn't want to play. When my bard attempts to save that girl as well, he suggests that she leave, and one failed will save later, she is compelled.
Now this is where the interesting part comes in. After cleaning up the girl with a useful cantrip, she returns her to her father, who then rails on my character about how she's an evil succubus, yadda yadda yadda, "I'm selling my business and moving somewhere where evil is kept outside the city gates." My bard gets all sorts of upset, having been physically assaulted by the guy she actually did her best to keep him from being cut to pieces by the cathedral guards, and screams at dude to leave before she loses her temper. When he's gone the cathedral keeper rolls up, dismissing his invisibility to essentially laugh at my character. She looks at the keep and asks "Are you going to do something about [Cad]?" which the keep answers with complete apathy, and the very next moment inquires if she is not adverse to serving in her official function as a sacred prostitute as her skills of a bard had inspired his lust.
And yes, there is currently one good follower of Her that she knows of, and to be fair to my GM he actually seems to be a decent guy, too. Respectful, courteous, and as a full cleric, far more wise and thus less willing to risk losing everything to accomplish very little of value. But alas at this point in campaign, this one priest may as well dwell in belly of a platinum dragon for all her ability to meet with much less speak to him.