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In another thread AdAstraGames is putting up Ranger builds for comment and criticism. He is basically looking at getting the most out of ranged weapon specialty builds. Some of his ideas have been interesting, and ranged weapon specialty builds are most definitely a viable option for Rangers. However, my own personal biases run somewhat differently, and after a while I figured that if I was going to spend time critiquing his builds then it arguably behooved me to put forth one of mine and give him (and others) the chance to throw some rocks in return. :-)
The build that follows is my attempt at a “general purpose” build that can do both melee and ranged combat reasonably well. The obvious drawback of this is that while it doesn’t have any glaring weaknesses, neither does it have any one particular spot where it really shines. It would have to try to take out the ranged weapon specialists by engaging them in melee and attempt to take out the melee weapon specialists by engaging them at range. Also, the attempt to do justice to both ranged and melee feat chains means that it doesn’t acquire some abilities until rather “late” levels. The potential upside is if you’re going to be playing with a constantly varying group of characters then this build has a reasonable chance of filling whatever niche any particular party needs filled at any one time, and doing it well enough to hopefully avoid a TPK because there was either no “meat shield” or nobody who was good at ranged attacks.
This build is based only on material available from the Core Rulebook. Eventually when I get some of the other books I might get fancier, but for right now this character looks like he will do what I want him to.
Human Ranger, Archery Combat Style, Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Human)
STR 14 [5pts]; DEX 14 [5pts] +2 [Race Mod] = 16; CON 12 [2pt]; INT 13 [3pts]; WIS 14 [5pts]; CHA 10 [0pts]. 20 pts total
Skills: 6 ranks base + 1 INT MOD + 1 Favored class +1 human = 9
Trained skills: Climb, Handle Animal, Heal, Perception, Profession (Bounty Hunter), Sense Motive [NC], Stealth, Survival, Swim
[NC]= Not a class skill
Projected feat progression: LF = Level feat, HF = human feat, CS = combat style
1. LF = Two Weapon Fighting, HF = Point Blank Shot
2. CS = Precise Shot
3. LF = Two Weapon Defense
4. Ability increase DEX 17, further ability increases go to STR
5. LF = Rapid Reload Light Crossbow
6. CS = Rapid Shot
7. LF = Combat Expertise
8.
9. LF = Double Slice
10. CS = Far Shot
11. LF = Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Two Bladed Sword
12.
13. LF = Power Attack
14. CS = Improved Precise Shot
15. LF = Improved Two Weapon Fighting
16.
17. LF = Two Weapon Rend
18. CS = Pinpoint Shot
19. LF = Vital Strike
20.
Starting Gear and Encumbrance:
Light Load: < 58 lbs, Medium Load < 116 lbs, Heavy load < 175 lbs
Gear (150 gp to spend):
Traveler’s outfit (free) 5 lbs
Morningstar 8 gp 6 lbs
Handaxe 6 gp 3 lbs
3 daggers 6 gp 3 lbs
6 darts 3 gp 3 lbs
Light crossbow 35 gp 4 lbs
30 bolts 3 gp 3 lbs
Scale Mail 50 gp 30 lbs
------- -------
111 gp 57 lbs
Note: Scale Mail: Armor bonus +5, Max dex bonus +3, ACP -4, spd 20 ft, weight 30 lbs
Some of the reasoning behind the gear and feat selection is that there is only so much space for junk that one can carry on the human/humanoid body. If one is going to end up carrying a double weapon then one is likely not going to be able to also carry either a longbow or a heavy crossbow. So, may as well make a virtue of necessity and go for either a light crossbow or a short bow from the beginning. I decided on the light crossbow for its extra damage and range, even though that meant I was going to have to burn a feat to be able to get rapid shot.
Having decided on a light crossbow I then needed to pick between either exotic weapon proficiency: repeating light crossbow or rapid reload: light crossbow. I decided on the latter as that would not restrict me to using a more expensive weapon that could only fire 5 times before I would have to take a full round action to reload it.
Another problem is that this character is going to be somewhat mobility challenged until he can eventually get a mithral breastplate.
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Hmm, I highly recommend this guide for building rangers.
That said, a couple quite comments. It's very difficult to make a ranger with any crossbow competitive with a longbow based ranger. That rapid reload tax is going to kill you every time. You could use your exact same build and replace rapid reload with 'deadly aim' and boost your damage a lot without changing anything else.
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A Composite Shortbow with a STR of 14 frees up a feat and does more damage than a Light Crossbow.
The primary reason for the first build I put up was because I'd thought I'd found a way to make a quirky yet effective character around using crossbows. While I think I have done so, having to make the argument every time I set down with a PFS group isn't worth the hassle.
(I'm also building specifically for PFS, so it has to 'pay off' in fun by 5th level)
Here's what I'd make to hit that niche, built for PFS - so only going to level 12. Because of how PFS works, armor class matters through about level 8-10.
Change race to Half-Orc.
STR 15+2[7] DEX 16[10] CON 12[2] INT 10[0] WIS 12[2] CHA 9 [-1]
1st: Two Weapon Fighting
2nd: Rapid Shot
3rd: Double Slice
4th: +1 STR
5th: Two Weapon Defense -or- Dodge -or- WF: Double Axe
6th: Many Shot
7th: Imp. Two Weapon Fighting*
8th: +1 WIS
9th: Improved Critical: Double Axe
10th: Shot on the Run
11th: Precise Shot
12th: +1 WIS
I am assuming that by 7th level, you'll have gotten a +2 DEX boosting belt, if not a +2 STR/DEX belt.
Starting gear: Orc Double Axe (60), Shortbow (30), Arrows (1), Scale Mail (50), 9 GP for sundries.
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Quick thought for now: Switching between melee and ranged means half the feats for your current combat method, no to few feats for anything else, and twice the cost for magic weapons (or less magic on the two that you have).
When I read the title of the thread, I thought pick a combat style and be a generalist everywhere else (skills, RP, etc.)
Just some very quick thoughts.
-Swiftbrook
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Thanks for the feedback. It makes sense to substitute in a shortbow/composite shortbow for the light crossbow so I will probably do that. It also frees up the 5th level feat slot which gives me the option of either moving the EWP: 2 bladed sword down there or just substituting in deadly aim. Hmmm ....
Going for a half orc also makes a lot of sense with the EWP (in this case for a double axe) reduced to a martial weapon proficiency he gets it from the beginning without burning a feat. To say nothing of getting darkvision. The main quibble that I have is that IMHO if you're going for a melee character build that's *not* going to be using a shield you really do want an INT of 13 so you can get combat expertise. If you find yourself in a situation where the character is the meat shield defending a bunch of crunchies and is down serious hit points, activating the defense option could make a difference.
I checked out "Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers in Pathfinder" and on the whole it struck me as well thought out. My main disagreement is that his analysis of 2wf versus great weapon styles seemed to leave double weapons out of the picture. At one point in time I had done a serious statistical analysis and found that a 2wf build using a double weapon would average more damage through time than a great weapon build. Granted that the great weapon would have higher damage per hit, but it wouldn't hit as often, and in a full attack option a 2wf would be more likely to get at least *some* damage in than a great weapon armed one. If one has only a standard attack available then one can shift the double weapon so one is wielding it like a two handed one and get their 1.5 x STR bonus damage. It won't hit as hard as a great weapon, but it will hit harder than just a one handed weapon does. Also, with a double weapon the damage die for the "light" weapon is now the same as the damage die for the "primary" weapon, as well as with the double slice feat hitting with the same STR bonus that the "primary" does. Then there's the minor boost to armor class of being able to get two weapon defense. While I'm not saying that 2wf with a double weapon is the ultimate fighting style, it's not necessarily the "weak sister" to great weapon styles.
Also, Swiftbrook is exactly right. This build isn't going to shine as well at either melee or ranged as a character dedicated to one of those builds would. All I can say is that if one doesn't like the trade offs involved in a build of this type then they should choose something they're more comfortable with. And getting a double weapon properly enchanted is expensive, which still leaves you wondering what to do about your bow.
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I know you said you are only using the CRB for the build, but IMHO, the second most important decision in building a ranger (after TWF vs. archer) is the Hunter's Bond. If you decide to take an animal companion, it is nearly a must to take the Boon Companion feat at 5th level. Otherwise, the companion's power level is weak in comparison to the players and the survivability is extremely low. Not to mention that, in most cases, the companion can keep your enemies at bay for at least a couple of rounds while you fill them full of arrows. If you choose not to go the route of an animal companion, switch out the 5th level feat for Quick Draw or Improved Initiative, or advance the entry into the PA/FF chain.
Most "swing" rangers I have seen, select the archery tree, and just use a THW, possibly with Power Attack to gain a boost to damage. Again, IMHO, you have to focus on maximizing your build by 4-5th level or you risk being over-whelmed in the mid-tier combats. Using TreantMonk's advice (see Ogre's post above) does this very well. You can hold your own in melee with little to no feat support, but to be "effective" from ranged, you need at least what I have listed for levels 1-5. Note that because your DEX is not high enough to qualify for Imp Precise Shot on your own, you need to use the ranger's combat style bonus to select it. The typical build I see for a ranger-archer (human) is...
STR 17(+3), DEX 17(+3), CON 12(+1), INT 8(-1), WIS 12(+1), CHA 8(-1)
If you don't want penalties to INT (more skill points), drop a point of STR. You can negate the need for CHA to boost you Handle Animal skill, by adding a point to your companion's INT. At 4th level, you add a point to STR, and at 8th level, add a point to DEX.
As far as equipment, you want a composite longbow as soon as possible, although you have to decide whether to get a +3 early and buy a +4 later (loosing half the value on the sell-back) or just wait until level 4 when you boost your STR. Keep a variety of arrows to cover most situations. Unless you plan to use Stealth, wear the most protective armor you can afford. Buy weapon cords (from the Advanced Player's Guide) so you can switch back and forth between weapons without having to select Quick Draw. A greatsword is the obvious choice for melee, but if you like crit more often, switch to a falchion. You give up a bit of damage, but a falchion with keen edge is awesome when combined with high STR and PA.
Keep in mind that traits can have an excellent impact on your build as well. Not that you fight from distance very often, but Hunter's Eye is nice. Reactionary works well with your his DEX to get off your bow shots before the enemy can close.
1st: Point Blank Shot
1st: Precise Shot
2nd: Rapid Shot (combat style feat)
3rd: Deadly Aim
5th: Boon Companion (from Seeker of Secrets)
6th: Improved Precise Shot (combat style feat)
7th: Manyshot
9th: Power Attack
10th: Pinpoint Targeting (combat style feat)
11th: Furious Focus (from the Advanced Player's Guide)
The addition of the PA/FF feats will boost your melee damage output to a level more acceptable for the front-line tank at higher levels.
BTW, in your second post, you have precise shot delayed until 11th level. This is waaay to late, IMO, if you expect to do any ranged combat since the -4 penalty is pretty huge. Because of the feat tax, if you truly want to build a PC who is exceptional both in melee and ranged, you need to be a fighter. This would also open up opportunities to add restricted feats like Weapon Specialization and Disrupting Shot. Both are awesome additions to a ranged warrior's skill. Of course, this path looses you the skills and animal companion that give the ranger his "flair."
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In general, armor class dominates through about level 5 or 6. Hit points and AC are about even between levels 7 through 11, and about level 12, the impact of your AC on a monster hitting you only matters on the second iterative attack, and the third iterative attack won't matter.
I find that Dodge is more *generally* useful than Combat Expertise, unless you're building a trip/disarm specialist.
I try to set my AC at the following at a minimum: HD of expected monsters + 15. Early on, it's possible to make this HD of expected monsters +18 or 20.
The build I offered up will likely have a +1 breastplate by 3rd level, a double masterwork axe, and an AC of 20, hitting at +5/+5 for 1d8+3/1d8+3.
At 4th, you're going up to +7/+7 and 1d8+4/1d8+4.
By 5th, you should have the budget for either enchanting that thing, or getting a STR widget.
You're probably going to limit the bow to a STR-18 Composite shortbow.
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At 4th level, I would expect the bow to be a +1 Composite Longbow (mighty+4). Combining that with Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot, the typical round would be +4/+4 1d8+9/1d8+9. Not bad if you have allies that can keep the "baddies" off of you. The real boost is at 5th level, when you not only get to bump your animal companion to your equivalent level (now you have a screening ally and flank mate), but you gain two 1st level spells. Gravity Bow can increase your arrow damage to 2d6. That puts you nearly on par with the melee fighter, but you don't have to worry about getting hit in return.
Venture-Agent, Indiana—Valparaiso
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As far as equipment, you want a composite longbow as soon as possible, although you have to decide whether to get a +3 early and buy a +4 later (loosing half the value on the sell-back) or just wait until level 4 when you boost your STR. Keep a variety of...
Actually Josh ruled awhile back that you can upgrade the strength rating of a bow.