Huh? Care to elaborate the latter point?
I make fun of America treating its citizens like little kids when it comes to sex almost as much as I rant about Germany treating its citizens like little kids when it comes to violence.
They're wasting untold sums of money to have their own system of age/maturity ratings for films and games instead of using PEGI and are generally being overly harsh with video games. Then there's the whole BPJM crap, wasting more money and censoring stuff no other European country has a problem with.
More money is wasted because a lot of companies are scared of this whole crap and thus make baby versions of games to sell in this country. Movies are about half as long when they're broadcasted in TV because anything that is anywhere near graphical violence is cut.
They should just shut down the BPJM, send USK to hell, use PEGI, and frikkin grow up already.
That's the short version.
Regarding sex, something like Nipplegate would have produced a huge outcry over here as well
No way. Some people would have been piqued, sure, but it would be limited to some people getting their panties in a bunch. There would be no witch hunt or anything.
Honestly, the discussion would probably have been as much about the level the TV entertainment has sunk to as about sex in TV, with doomsayers predicting the downfall of the occident culture-wise, as usual.
Yeah, that would be all. The same old complaints from the same old people. There would be no major rearrangement of TV programmes to go easy on the shocked population.
You can take my medusa and marilith breasts when you pull them out of my cold, dead hands.
"I am Medusa! Look into my eyes and turn to stone!"
"SNAKE BOOBIES WOOHOOO!""I said, look into my eyes."
"Hubba hubba hubba!"
"MEN!..." *Walks off*
A sword is a weapon. Sex appeal is a social factor, one that doesn't do one much good in a wide variety of dangerous situations. Owlbears, goblins, ghouls, etc. don't care how 'sexy' you look.
Swords are pieces of metal, not weapons: Try to kill a spaceship with one.
My point is: Hardly any weapon is effective in every situation, but that doesn't mean it's not a weapon.
Now, I'll grant you a few adventurer girls may be crazy enough to try to use sex appeal on trolls and gelatinous cubes
Where do you meet trolls in the city? They're monsters and got to stay out in the wild.
Remember that not all adventurers are going up against monsters. Especially "urban adventurers" will often never see a monster in their lives. And "adventurer" is such a broad term. Not all are fighting the good fight against evil aggressors. Some are just rogues and thieves and bad guys. Or bad girls.
They won't try to seduce trolls or gelatinous cubes, because they don't have any money or secrets to sell, and they're so far away.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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You can take my medusa and marilith breasts when you pull them out of my cold, dead hands."I am Medusa! Look into my eyes and turn to stone!"
"SNAKE BOOBIES WOOHOOO!"
"I said, look into my eyes."
"Hubba hubba hubba!"
"MEN!..." *Walks off*
Ok, this made me laugh. A lot.
Off topic: I've unnerved women because I maintain eye contact. They're too used to roving eyes I guess.
Now, I'll grant you a few adventurer girls may be crazy enough to try to use sex appeal on trolls and gelatinous cubesWhere do you meet trolls in the city? They're monsters and got to stay out in the wild.
Remember that not all adventurers are going up against monsters. Especially "urban adventurers" will often never see a monster in their lives. And "adventurer" is such a broad term. Not all are fighting the good fight against evil aggressors. Some are just rogues and thieves and bad guys. Or bad girls.
They won't try to seduce trolls or gelatinous cubes, because they don't have any money or secrets to sell, and they're so far away.
I run plenty of urban adventures. A human thug will stab that sword-princess in the exposed kill box. He will if I'm DM, anyway.:)
Like I said, gritty.Now, are there going to be some female thieves, sorceresses, etc. who seek to captitalize on sex appeal in social situations? Sure, sure. SOME.
It's when that becomes the default that I have to laugh. You'll note that I've never objected to ALL sexy pics, just the sheer abundance of T&A.
I run plenty of urban adventures. A human thug will stab that sword-princess in the exposed kill box. He will if I'm DM, anyway.:)
Not everyone plays that way.
Not everyone plays that way.
I run plenty of urban adventures. A human thug will stab that sword-princess in the exposed kill box. He will if I'm DM, anyway.:)
Of course- but not everyone plays your way, either.
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You can take my medusa and marilith breasts when you pull them out of my cold, dead hands."I am Medusa! Look into my eyes and turn to stone!"
"SNAKE BOOBIES WOOHOOO!"
"I said, look into my eyes."
"Hubba hubba hubba!"
"MEN!..." *Walks off*Ok, this made me laugh. A lot.
Off topic: I've unnerved women because I maintain eye contact. They're too used to roving eyes I guess.
That's cause most guys that do that are creepy stalker types. :)
That's cause most guys that do that are creepy stalker types. :)
You can take my medusa and marilith breasts when you pull them out of my cold, dead hands."I am Medusa! Look into my eyes and turn to stone!"
"SNAKE BOOBIES WOOHOOO!"
"I said, look into my eyes."
"Hubba hubba hubba!"
"MEN!..." *Walks off*Ok, this made me laugh. A lot.
Off topic: I've unnerved women because I maintain eye contact. They're too used to roving eyes I guess.
Matt shall hereby be known as the Creepy Stalker.
FYI, a creepy stalker is a crossbreed between dark creeper and dark stalker.
I run plenty of urban adventures. A human thug will stab that sword-princess in the exposed kill box. He will if I'm DM, anyway.:)
Like I said, gritty.
If said thug has a reason to do so and thinks he will get away with it, sure. But there are (normally) plenty of city guards, innkepers, shopkeepers, cantankerous old sages, holier-than-thou priests, IRS agents or what have you who are not prone to sudden outbreaks of violence and may be quite susceptible to female charms - and showing a little skin can go a long way, especially with the more physical types. It happens in the real world as well, with attractive and sexy types having an easier time to get some boon than ugly and homely types. It does not work all the time, but often enough to make a difference.
Stefan
That's cause most guys that do that are creepy stalker types. :)
You can take my medusa and marilith breasts when you pull them out of my cold, dead hands."I am Medusa! Look into my eyes and turn to stone!"
"SNAKE BOOBIES WOOHOOO!"
"I said, look into my eyes."
"Hubba hubba hubba!"
"MEN!..." *Walks off*Ok, this made me laugh. A lot.
Off topic: I've unnerved women because I maintain eye contact. They're too used to roving eyes I guess.
Interestingly enough, yeah. It's a strange world we live in.
I run plenty of urban adventures. A human thug will stab that sword-princess in the exposed kill box. He will if I'm DM, anyway.:)
Like I said, gritty.If said thug has a reason to do so and thinks he will get away with it, sure. But there are (normally) plenty of city guards, innkepers, shopkeepers, cantankerous old sages, holier-than-thou priests, IRS agents or what have you who are not prone to sudden outbreaks of violence and may be quite susceptible to female charms - and showing a little skin can go a long way, especially with the more physical types. It happens in the real world as well, with attractive and sexy types having an easier time to get some boon than ugly and homely types. It does not work all the time, but often enough to make a difference.
Stefan
Sure, and that agrees perfectly with the sort of world I like to see depicted in the art.
I'm not sure why people keep missing the part where I say, as I've said since post #1:less cheesecake, more grit
NOT
no sexy girls ever, and all grit
I just don't see where the game needs to change. Don't want chainmail bikinis and curvaceous armor? Don't include them in your world. Tell your players that all armor the player characters get is very sensible and fully covering.
That should pretty much do it.
I run plenty of urban adventures. A human thug will stab that sword-princess in the exposed kill box. He will if I'm DM, anyway.:)
Like I said, gritty.
So, you use home-brewed called-shots and/or hit location charts? Because the rules of the game as per the core rulebook don't differentiate - especially if said armor is magical, or is supplemented with magic items. Heck, she could walk around naked wearing nothing but a Ring of Protection +3 and a DEX of 16 and most 1st level thugs would never scratch her...
I just don't see where the game needs to change. Don't want chainmail bikinis and curvaceous armor? Don't include them in your world. Tell your players that all armor the player characters get is very sensible and fully covering.
That should pretty much do it.
Now why would you want to go and ruin a perfectly good argument by suggesting something logical, my friend? ;D
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I just don't see where the game needs to change. Don't want chainmail bikinis and curvaceous armor? Don't include them in your world. Tell your players that all armor the player characters get is very sensible and fully covering.
That should pretty much do it.
But I like cheese cake. Though with it being so rich it makes me feel sick if I eat more than a few bites. On a related topic I like the art of the same name. :)
But I like cheese cake. Though with it being so rich it makes me feel sick if I eat more than a few bites. On a related topic I like the art of the same name. :)
I like cheesecake, too. The more I have, the more I want. ;)
But I like cheese cake. Though with it being so rich it makes me feel sick if I eat more than a few bites. On a related topic I like the art of the same name. :)I like cheesecake, too. The more I have, the more I want. ;)
Agreed. Garcon, three orders of cheesecake!
Hmm, so just hypothetically, if a certain gaming company were to make a calendar or the like that was almost exclusively cheesecake, who'd be interested in buying something like that?
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But I like cheese cake. Though with it being so rich it makes me feel sick if I eat more than a few bites. On a related topic I like the art of the same name. :)I like cheesecake, too. The more I have, the more I want. ;)Agreed. Garcon, three orders of cheesecake!
Hmm, so just hypothetically, if a certain gaming company were to make a calendar or the like that was almost exclusively cheesecake, who'd be interested in buying something like that?
Well something like that you are really buying for the art. So it would need to be topnotch art. Which is not cheap, add in printing cost, though a nice PDF if cheap enough would be nice. Still in both cases I question if something like that would sell well enough to make a profit.
Well something like that you are really buying for the art. So it would need to be topnotch art. Which is not cheap, add in printing cost, though a nice PDF if cheap enough would be nice. Still in both cases I question if something like that would sell well enough to make a profit.But I like cheese cake. Though with it being so rich it makes me feel sick if I eat more than a few bites. On a related topic I like the art of the same name. :)I like cheesecake, too. The more I have, the more I want. ;)Agreed. Garcon, three orders of cheesecake!
Hmm, so just hypothetically, if a certain gaming company were to make a calendar or the like that was almost exclusively cheesecake, who'd be interested in buying something like that?
Unless it's the 'Men of Paizo: Speedo Edition'. In that case, DM will be on the hook for each copy. No reason. =)
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You can take my medusa and marilith breasts when you pull them out of my cold, dead hands."I am Medusa! Look into my eyes and turn to stone!"
"SNAKE BOOBIES WOOHOOO!"
"I said, look into my eyes."
"Hubba hubba hubba!"
"MEN!..." *Walks off*Ok, this made me laugh. A lot.
Off topic: I've unnerved women because I maintain eye contact. They're too used to roving eyes I guess.
It's probably because most people only maintain eye contact for a short while before looking at the other person's movements, especially the mouth.
Most people, I have been told, will 'rove' during conversation (around the face, the room, perhaps the body) but will look at the mouth more than anywhere else.
Or, y'know, you're a better man than the rest of us.
I'd like to flip the debate around a bit.
What's so great about fantasy art which makes women seem weak and emphasises their sexual availability?
It's an active choice to have cheesecake as it isn't 'normal' and doesn't accurately reflect the fantasy world (when it's doing so it's not cheesecake).
So, why make that choice? Why choose cheesecake?
What's so great about fantasy art which makes women seem weak and emphasises their sexual availability?
It's an active choice to have cheesecake as it isn't 'normal' and doesn't accurately reflect the fantasy world (when it's doing so it's not cheesecake).
So, why make that choice? Why choose cheesecake?
<Bolded segments of the quote are by me for emphasis>
Do what now? I think you should probably state that it is your opinion that cheesecake fantasy art makes women seem weak. Personally, I think Red Sonja - were she real - would kick the butt of everyone posting to this conversation. At the same time.
How do you know it isn't "normal"? Who says? You? Where's your proof that it isn't normal? Cite some sources before tossing around such things, please, or state that it is merely your opinion.
NOTE: Edited for clarity.
Unless it's the 'Men of Paizo: Speedo Edition'. In that case, DM will be on the hook for each copy. No reason. =)
Ok, that nearly made tea come out my nose! LOL!
I'd like to flip the debate around a bit.What's so great about fantasy art which makes women seem weak and emphasises their sexual availability?
It's an active choice to have cheesecake as it isn't 'normal' and doesn't accurately reflect the fantasy world (when it's doing so it's not cheesecake).
So, why make that choice? Why choose cheesecake?
Just so, Geraint, just so!
They choose it because it fits their notion of heroic fantasy, I would imagine. It doesn't fit mine.
I suspect that some of this divide arises from a difference in tastes that reaches well beyond gaming.
To the cheesecake lovers who told me to ignore the art: what you you say if the art was more diverse and trended towards the gritty, and I told you to just shut up and ignore it? Right. You'd take that as dismissive, and you'd be right to feel that way. You are buying the books. Of course you'd like to see included more of the sort of art that you like.
Well, let's see. Mitch Foust's fantasy art is definitely cheesecake, but I wouldn't call any of those women weak - they're all quite fit looking. Even going back to Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo's art, when the women are supposed to be heroic (as opposed to nubile slave girls), they are as heroic in physique as their male counterparts. Yes, it's not practical for a female warrior to fight in a chainmail bikini - and it's not practical for a male barbarian to fight in a horned helmet and a loincloth, either. But those are conventions of the art.
And this isn't exactly modern, either. Nike of Samothrace, for example - a statue from the 2nd century BCE, and it's a female figure of fairly sensual built, in a robe that appears to be wet and clinging. And it's depicting the Goddess of Victory. For that matter, Athena, the Goddess of Warfare and Wisdom, was also considered to be beautiful.
And that's not exclusive to the West, either - look at the statues of Parvati, the consort of Shiva. She is always a nearly nude, voluptuous female form. For that matter, so is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, Kali - who is usually depicted with a fierce expression, and holding raised weapons in her multiple arms, but is also usually almost entirely nude and has a shapely figure.
Or if you go to the Norse sagas, many of the Valkyries were supposed to be exceptional warriors - and almost peerless in beauty. Likewise, Brunhild of the Nibelungen saga supposed to be almost unbeatable in battle, and unmatched in beauty.
It is an archetype for warrior women to also be considered attractive, and while that may mean stripperific outfits now and then, the idea is not that they're weak, but rather, that their strength accents their feminine charms, not debases them.
To the cheesecake lovers who told me to ignore the art: what you you say if the art was more diverse and trended towards the gritty, and I told you to just shut up and ignore it? Right. You'd take that as dismissive, and you'd be right to feel that way. You are buying the books. Of course you'd like to see included more of the sort of art that you like.
I buy the books for the text inside. For the fluff and the crunch. Whether I like the cover or interior art is not relevant if the book is a good book. The only reason I won't purchase an RPG book because of the art is if it is just poorly executed art - no matter the style or subject matter.
Well, let's see. Mitch Foust's fantasy art is definitely cheesecake, but I wouldn't call any of those women weak - they're all quite fit looking. Even going back to Frank Frazetta and Boris Vallejo's art, when the women are supposed to be heroic (as opposed to nubile slave girls), they are as heroic in physique as their male counterparts. Yes, it's not practical for a female warrior to fight in a chainmail bikini - and it's not practical for a male barbarian to fight in a horned helmet and a loincloth, either. But those are conventions of the art.
I tend to laugh at pics of male barbarians in loincloths and horned helmets. It's as silly to me as cheesecake.
Conan wore pants. Much of the time, he wore armor, too.
Frazetta and Boris? Meh. Good technical skill, but I found their stuff to be not at all to my taste, with a very few exceptions.
I find it telling that you went on to discuss idealized Greek goddesses.
In my mind's eye, the majority of D&D adventurers are not gleaming bronze heroes or fated demigods, but ordinary men and women who have chosen an extradorinary life, a life which could quite likely end in their gruesome premature deaths. Paraphrasing another old school guy-
'they didn't want to spend their lives working in somebody else's fields, so they took the risk of dying in somebody else's tomb.'
I don't use 'Greek god' as the default. That's not to say there are no really good looking adventurers, of course. It's not the default. The default is the man on the street, scruffed up and given a sword and torch.
I buy the books for the text inside. For the fluff and the crunch. Whether I like the cover or interior art is not relevant if the book is a good book. The only reason I won't purchase an RPG book because of the art is if it is just poorly executed art - no matter the style or subject matter.To the cheesecake lovers who told me to ignore the art: what you you say if the art was more diverse and trended towards the gritty, and I told you to just shut up and ignore it? Right. You'd take that as dismissive, and you'd be right to feel that way. You are buying the books. Of course you'd like to see included more of the sort of art that you like.
At the prices we pay these days, and with the quantity of art in the books, art quality and style IS a major factor in my decision to buy or not buy a new RPG book.
Conan wore pants. Much of the time, he wore armor, too.
Not in the vast majority of Conan art he didn't. And that's what we are discussing. The art.
In my mind's eye, the majority of D&D adventurers are not gleaming bronze heroes or fated demigods, but ordinary men and women who have chosen an extradorinary life, a life which could quite likely end in their gruesome premature deaths. Paraphrasing another old school guy-
'they didn't want to spend their lives working in somebody else's fields, so they took a chance at dying in somebody else's tomb.'I don't use 'Greek god' as the default. That's not to say there are no really good looking adventurers, of course. It's not the default. The default is the man on the street, scruffed up and given a sword and torch.
Then you've got a very, very different concept of "Heroic" than I do. For me, the adventurers are a rare breed, and truly heroic. The ordinary don't take up the sword or spell. They stay home and die in the wheat field. The truly exceptional of spirit, mind, and body take to the life of adventuring, and not to take "a chance at dying in somebody else's tomb", but to plunder that tomb and defeat the evil within it.
Frankly, your concept of adventurers sounds rather boring to me, personally.
Frankly, your concept of adventurers sounds rather boring to me, personally.
You think it's boring for ordinary men and women to choose to live extraordinary lives and take great risks? Geeze. That's kind of sad. What do you think heroism is?
Frankly, your concept of adventurers sounds rather boring to me, personally.You find the idea of ordinary men and women choosing to live extraordinary life and take great risks to be boring? Geeze. That's kind of sad. What do you think heroism is?
Real world heroism is ordinary people doing extraordinary things. Firemen saving a kid from a burning building. Policemen shielding their partner from a gunman. Joe Businessman jumping onto the train tracks to save a baby.
But that's the real world.
I don't play fantasy RPGs to emulate the real world. I play them for the fantasy.
Heroic fantasy is extremely extraordinary people. They might not think they are extraordinary, but they are. That's why they are fighters and not warriors. That's why they are wizards or clerics and not adepts. That's why they are rogues and not experts. That's why the commoner NPC class isn't recommended for PCs.
If I want the ordinary people leaving the field so they can die in a different way, I might as well make all my players play NPC classes only...
If I want the ordinary people leaving the field so they can die in a different way, I might as well make all my players play NPC classes only...
Naw, that's why you start play at first level. You can become extraordinarily powerful, but you have to earn it.
Naw, that's why you start play at first level. You can become extraordinarily powerful, but you have to earn it.
Yes, but a 1st level fighter is already extraordinary compared to a 1st level commoner.
If I want the ordinary people leaving the field so they can die in a different way, I might as well make all my players play NPC classes only...Naw, that's why you start play at first level. You can become extraordinarily powerful, but you have to earn it.
Except that even at first level, PC classes have considerable advantages over NPC classes. Which is kind of the idea.
For instance, a Fighter with a Strength of 12 isn't much of a Fighter, comparatively - but he's notably stronger than the average person. A Barbarian with a Constitution of 12 isn't going to last long either - but compared to Jobe Commoner, he's as hardy as a horse.
Except that even at first level, PC classes have considerable advantages over NPC classes. Which is kind of the idea.
If I want the ordinary people leaving the field so they can die in a different way, I might as well make all my players play NPC classes only...Naw, that's why you start play at first level. You can become extraordinarily powerful, but you have to earn it.
So?
Was that first level fighter born a first level fighter? Nope. He was born a weak, helpess baby. He BECAME a fighter by training. He CHOSE to embark on a life of adventure. Is talent involved? Sure. Does that mean that he'd have ended up an adventuring fighter, no matter what? Naw, I don't buy it. Lots of people show 'wasted talent.'
He BECAME a fighter by training. He CHOSE to embark on a life of adventure.
And it is that choice, that decision to undergo the training that sets him apart from those that do not make that decision. That's what makes him different - and that's why it's heroic fantasy, not reality.
We're playing Pathfinder, not Civil Service: The RPG.
He BECAME a fighter by training. He CHOSE to embark on a life of adventure.
And it is that choice, that decision to undergo the training that sets him apart from those that do not make that decision. That's what makes him different - and that's why it's heroic fantasy, not reality.
We're playing Pathfinder, not Civil Service: The RPG.
Strawman, eh? LOL
I guess you must have failed to read what I had actually written:
'chose an extraordinary life.'
You pretty much just repeated me, buddy.
If you are going to agree with me, you could at least admit it.
:)
Strawman, eh? LOL
I guess you must have failed to read what I had actually written:
'chose an extraordinary life.'
You pretty much just repeated me, buddy.
If you are going to agree with me, you could at least admit it.
:)
Cop out, eh? Failing to get the gist of what I had actually written:
'and that's why it's heroic fantasy, not reality'
You and I obviously have very, very, very different concepts of heroic fantasy. I'm just going to walk away from this one because it's clear we won't agree. And that's ok. Nothing says we have to. You enjoy your game concepts, I'll enjoy mine.
You and I obviously have very, very, very different concepts of heroic fantasy. I'm just going to walk away from this one because it's clear we won't agree. And that's ok. Nothing says we have to. You enjoy your game concepts, I'll enjoy mine.
+1
You and I obviously have very, very, very different concepts of heroic fantasy. I'm just going to walk away from this one because it's clear we won't agree. And that's ok. Nothing says we have to. You enjoy your game concepts, I'll enjoy mine.+1
No, +2.
:)
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Unless it's the 'Men of Paizo: Speedo Edition'. In that case, DM will be on the hook for each copy. No reason. =)Well something like that you are really buying for the art. So it would need to be topnotch art. Which is not cheap, add in printing cost, though a nice PDF if cheap enough would be nice. Still in both cases I question if something like that would sell well enough to make a profit.But I like cheese cake. Though with it being so rich it makes me feel sick if I eat more than a few bites. On a related topic I like the art of the same name. :)I like cheesecake, too. The more I have, the more I want. ;)Agreed. Garcon, three orders of cheesecake!
Hmm, so just hypothetically, if a certain gaming company were to make a calendar or the like that was almost exclusively cheesecake, who'd be interested in buying something like that?
Well yes I have been asking for one for years. I think everyone would buy a copy of that, then it could be a yearly event.
the npc classes were rather redundant. i don't use them.
why do we need special "Mook" Classes when there is a pc class that covers the exact same role?
i don't use warrior to stat my city guards. i make them fighters
i don't use adept to stat my shamans, i use a real divine caster
i don't use expert to stat my merchants, spies, and jacks of all trades, i use a proper skill monkey
i don't use commoner for every peasant on the planet, i use a pc class that closely resembles the desired skillset. even if it violates fluff enforced rules, such as alignment restrictions or codes of conduct.
the npc classes were rather redundant. i don't use them.
why do we need special "Mook" Classes when there is a pc class that covers the exact same role?
i don't use warrior to stat my city guards. i make them fighters
i don't use adept to stat my shamans, i use a real divine caster
i don't use expert to stat my merchants, spies, and jacks of all trades, i use a proper skill monkey
i don't use commoner for every peasant on the planet, i use a pc class that closely resembles the desired skillset. even if it violates fluff enforced rules, such as alignment restrictions or codes of conduct.
That's an interesting approach.
I often run B/X, in which 'ordinary folks are 'Normal Men' without classes and levels. That was '0 lvl' in AD&D.
I'm ambivalent about the 3E NPC classes. I'm not quite sure why they should gain attacks, increased hit points, better saves, etc as they grow more experienced/better at their jobs. If they aren't adventurers, why are gaining skills and gaining combat bonuses tied together for them?
Well yes I have been asking for one for years. I think everyone would buy a copy of that, then it could be a yearly event.
'Men of Paizo'
You want to see Erik Mona and James Jacobs in speedos?
Could they be the new 'convention booth babes' Paizo has been looking for these last couple of years?
:)
You and I obviously have very, very, very different concepts of heroic fantasy. I'm just going to walk away from this one because it's clear we won't agree. And that's ok. Nothing says we have to. You enjoy your game concepts, I'll enjoy mine.+1No, +2.
:)
I have experienced grim and gritty in my life - I play a heroic game style so that I can rise above the grim and gritty of real-life for just a few hours.
Ewan you, want people to accept your view and a lot of people agree to a certain extent.
Yet you are very inflexible in your stance and your constant negative reactions to people who believe different and the point scoring that you engage in lead me to think that you are undemocratic in nature and are of a "Its my way or the Highway" personality type.
Just because one style of play suits you does not make it perfect for others or the majority. Believing that your style is more pure or situated on the moral or realistic "high ground" is shaky when brakedown the hobby to its true essence which is a complex game of "cowboys & Indians" for adults.
Role-playing in its pure form is "pretends" and if people like to pretend that the princess with the big boobies likes to put them on display while bashing a goblin with a mace then more power to them. Or if you like to pretend that you are a starving peasant who's village is a plague ridden cesspit with the only certainty being a horrible puss infected death, if that floats your boat yippee for you.
But I don't want your plague ridden peasant in my big boobied princess game unless I cure her of her disease and save the village and look totally hawt at while I am doing it. Lots of people feel the same.
I have a request for you - why don't you ask the paizo artists why they paint the way that they do. Ask them for the artistic truth behind their images.
That is far more interesting topic than the "duhhh too many boobies" threads that happen once every year
Ewan you, want people to accept your view and a lot of people agree to a certain extent.
Yet you are very inflexible in your stance and your constant negative reactions to people who believe different and the point scoring that you engage in lead me to think that you are undemocratic in nature and are of a "Its my way or the Highway" personality type.
Just because one style of play suits you does not make it perfect for others or the majority. Believing that your style is more pure or situated on the moral or realistic "high ground" is shaky when brakedown the hobby to its true essence which is a complex game of "cowboys & Indians" for adults.
I'm not sure how you got all that from my posts. I posed the topic as a question for a reason. Look at the title of the thread. I don't expect everyone to agree. I've said as much more than once in this thread. I've been very clear that I don't look down on anyone for having tastes different than mine. Nor have I called for others to 'play my way.'
You write of 'moral high ground'- but I never once wrote that y'all were immoral for liking all the cheesecake. I explained why I don't like it. I think you've got me confused with someone else.
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Well yes I have been asking for one for years. I think everyone would buy a copy of that, then it could be a yearly event.'Men of Paizo'
You want to see Erik Mona and James Jacobs in speedos?
Could they be the new 'convention booth babes' Paizo has been looking for these last couple of years?
:)
Yes, yes I do! I would pay very good money to see that! :)
You may have missed this, from the early part of the thread:
Please don't take any of this to mean that I dislike or look down upon fans of 'sexy' art in the game. I'm just expressing my strongly held views on this particular aspect of the art content.-Ewan
As for the idea that I am 'undemocratic' in my nature, I thank God for it! Maybe you intended that as an insult, but I take it as the highest compliment.
And you are wrong- I haven't been negative towards all who have disagreed with me. No, I've simply stood by my own opinions. I've been quite polite to everyone, and even refused to respond in kind when certain other posters were rude or dismissive. I haven't made snarky comments or personal attacks. I haven't called other people self righteous, or boring, or 'shrews.' Some of the other posters have done so.
Yes, yes I do! I would pay very good money to see that! :)
Well yes I have been asking for one for years. I think everyone would buy a copy of that, then it could be a yearly event.'Men of Paizo'
You want to see Erik Mona and James Jacobs in speedos?
Could they be the new 'convention booth babes' Paizo has been looking for these last couple of years?
:)
Do they know this? Hehe, you could probably talk them into it. If they'll put half naked women in a product in order to 'move it', this is the logical next step. :)