Hi All,
Very new to this so please forgive me if the questions sounds a little
off.
Sorcerer Blood lines:
Are there any that a Sorcerer is not alowed to take?
Or any combination not allowed?
I have a Elf in the group who wants to take "ORC" Bloodline.
Seems a little off...
any advice and help is always greatful.Thanks,
Eric
Uhm,
There is no Orc bloodline.However, to the question...
No, there are no restrictions in the Core Rules about what bloodline a specific race (which seems to be your question?) can take. However, the GM can always set limits in his own campaign. I could easily see a world where Dwarf Sorcerers can only take Draconic, Earth Elemental, and Deepearth bloodlines for example, while Elves could only take Verdent, Starsoul, and Draconic. But that would be a world specific ruling, not something from RAW.
Uhm,
There is no Orc bloodline.
It's from Orcs of Golarion.
Hi All,
Very new to this so please forgive me if the questions sounds a little
off.
Sorcerer Blood lines:
Are there any that a Sorcerer is not alowed to take?
Or any combination not allowed?
I have a Elf in the group who wants to take "ORC" Bloodline.
Seems a little off...
any advice and help is always greatful.Thanks,
Eric
Unless your GM wants to be a prick about it, there's no RAW mechanic that prevents this. I would encourage a backstory explaining how this elf got hold of some orc DNA (genetics, weird experiments, etc). I'd allow it, but not without a decent character history.
@mdt, it's in Orcs of Golarion.
What I don't understand is why "orc" is a sorcerer bloodline. Orcs aren't particularly magical as a race; why does their blood grant sorcerous powers exactly?
Ah. :)
That just proves my point on another thread. Golarion and Core rules are two seperate lines. Golarion contains things not in Core (Like Orc bloodline, since when are Orcs inherently magical, they are the epitomy of physical bruisers), and Core contains things not in Golarion. :)
What I don't understand is why "orc" is a sorcerer bloodline. Orcs aren't particularly magical as a race; why does their blood grant sorcerous powers exactly?
Meh, they aren't. I'd put a big red GM [X] stamp on that particular bit of foolishness in my own games. Fortunately, I don't run Golarion, so I don't have to worry about it.
What I don't understand is why "orc" is a sorcerer bloodline. Orcs aren't particularly magical as a race; why does their blood grant sorcerous powers exactly?
Bloodline description: The rage of your ancestors burns within you, and the taint of savage orc blood flows through your veins. Your anger is never far from the surface, giving you strength and driving you to seek greater power.
20th level power description: At 20th level, you become a true orc warlord of legend.
If mundane kings, queens, and fate-friendly NPCs can spawn the Destined bloodline, why can't orc warlords?
What I don't understand is why "orc" is a sorcerer bloodline. Orcs aren't particularly magical as a race; why does their blood grant sorcerous powers exactly?Bloodline description: The rage of your ancestors burns within you, and the taint of savage orc blood flows through your veins. Your anger is never far from the surface, giving you strength and driving you to seek greater power.
20th level power description: At 20th level, you become a true orc warlord of legend.
If mundane kings, queens, and fate-friendly NPCs can spawn the Destined bloodline, why can't orc warlords?
Because kings, queens, and fate-friendly NPCs are generally not descended from species described as savage brutes. Ogre's at least have ogre-mages which would make a certain amount of sense for an Ogre bloodline. Remember, in much mythology, a king or queen is granted divine right, and that bit of divinity is passed on in the blood. So destined bloodline could easily be justified as that.
Orcs have no such mythology with them. The description of the bloodline, to me, sounds much more like a justification for Barbarian or Berserker abilities, not magic. In general, magic is not in PF or D&D ascribed to raw anger, it's a more deliberate thing.
If mundane kings, queens, and fate-friendly NPCs can spawn the Destined bloodline, why can't orc warlords?
An orc destined to be a great warlord is just that; destined. There's a difference being touched by the eldritch forces of fate and simply being an ambitious angry guy with big axe. The latter quality doesn't usually lead to great arcane power.
In general, magic is not in PF or D&D ascribed to raw anger, it's a more deliberate thing.
For a wizard, absolutely.
For a sorcerer? A guy who can get angry enough that it mystically sets people on fire doesn't really bother me.
(The orc bloodline abilities are mostly gish-y, and strength/rage related, FWIW.)
In general, magic is not in PF or D&D ascribed to raw anger, it's a more deliberate thing.For a wizard, absolutely.
For a sorcerer? A guy who can get angry enough that it mystically sets people on fire doesn't really bother me.
(The orc bloodline abilities are mostly gish-y, and strength/rage related, FWIW.)
Then I'm sure there will be Goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear bloodlines, with roguish type elements, and kobold bloodlines with trappish elements, and so on. :(
Don't get me wrong, I love the changes to sorcerers, and I love bloodlines. However, bloodlines should be associated with something magical, not everything under the sun. Orcs are just not in any sense of the word 'magical' as a race.
Fey : Fey are magical beings.
Elemental : Elementals are embodyments of element magic.
Dragons : Dragons are inherently magical.
Destined : Fate specifically chooses you, or you were descended from a line of kings and queens with divine right.
Aquatic : Mermaids are inherently magical, as are most other creatures you can be descended from.
Arboreal : Descended from giants, trolls, and spirits (all inherently magical)
See the theme? All the bloodlines have to do with things that are inherently magical. Orcs are not inherently magical.
Because kings, queens, and fate-friendly NPCs are generally not descended from species described as savage brutes. Ogre's at least have ogre-mages which would make a certain amount of sense for an Ogre bloodline. Remember, in much mythology, a king or queen is granted divine right, and that bit of divinity is passed on in the blood. So destined bloodline could easily be justified as that.
Orcs have no such mythology with them. The description of the bloodline, to me, sounds much more like a justification for Barbarian or Berserker abilities, not magic. In general, magic is not in PF or D&D ascribed to raw anger, it's a more deliberate thing.
Ogres wouldn't have ogre mages as a source of a bloodline; they'd have Oni Bloodlines. I get what you're saying, but if a monarch's right to rule could be considered holy, a monster's innate anger and rage could be considered equally profane. In mythology, king and monster usually sat on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Aquatic : Mermaids are inherently magical, as are most other creatures you can be descended from.
Arboreal : Descended from giants, trolls, and spirits (all inherently magical)See the theme? All the bloodlines have to do with things that are inherently magical. Orcs are not inherently magical.
Mermaids? Hill giants? No magic powers at all, despite being mythical creatures. Orcs? No magic powers at all, despite being mythical creatures. So I'm totally failing to grasp the logic that says "merfolk and hill giants in the core rules are inherently magical, but orcs aren't."
Mermaids? Hill giants? No magic powers at all, despite being mythical creatures. Orcs? No magic powers at all, despite being mythical creatures. So I'm totally failing to grasp the logic that says "merfolk and hill giants in the core rules are inherently magical, but orcs aren't."Aquatic : Mermaids are inherently magical, as are most other creatures you can be descended from.
Arboreal : Descended from giants, trolls, and spirits (all inherently magical)See the theme? All the bloodlines have to do with things that are inherently magical. Orcs are not inherently magical.
A) I said mermaids, not merfolk. Merfolk in PF and D&D are not mermaids of myth and legend. There are quite a few of the old mermaid myths that have them granting magical powers to people (for a very costly price, usually). You should do a little research on that, it's actually quite interesting and will give you some ideas for games. You'll note I specifically stated Mermaids, not merfolk, to differentiate between the rather pale version in D&D/PF and the mythological versions that granted magic powers. For PF/D&D, I would assume that these would be Greater Mermaids, similar to Noble Drow vs Drow.
B) I didn't say Hill Giants, I said Giants. If you look back at giant mythology, especially Norse mythology, Giants were very magical in nature. Many giants in PF/D&D have magical or supernatural abilities (storm giants for example, fire giants, etc). Yes, Hill giants are the poor stupid cousins, and I agree, they should be in the same bucket as Orcs, they shouldn't grant a sorcerer bloodline.
I don't mind discussing things, but honestly, if you're going to be insulting, I can be insulting right back if you wish. I tried to refrain in this post on the assumption that your post was just unintionally smarmy.
Ogres wouldn't have ogre mages as a source of a bloodline; they'd have Oni Bloodlines. I get what you're saying, but if a monarch's right to rule could be considered holy, a monster's innate anger and rage could be considered equally profane. In mythology, king and monster usually sat on opposite ends of the spectrum.Because kings, queens, and fate-friendly NPCs are generally not descended from species described as savage brutes. Ogre's at least have ogre-mages which would make a certain amount of sense for an Ogre bloodline. Remember, in much mythology, a king or queen is granted divine right, and that bit of divinity is passed on in the blood. So destined bloodline could easily be justified as that.
Orcs have no such mythology with them. The description of the bloodline, to me, sounds much more like a justification for Barbarian or Berserker abilities, not magic. In general, magic is not in PF or D&D ascribed to raw anger, it's a more deliberate thing.
Actually, King and Evil King usually sat on opposite ends of the same spectrum more often than not. When it was a monster, it wasn't a common savage brute that could be killed by any field soldier with a pike, it was a bigger than life monster with fire breath and hardened scales (IE: Dragons). I can't think of any myth where a King was worried about any monster that could be killed by one of his rawest recruits with a pike (and a little luck). Concerned by thousands of them, yes, but not an individual who would be able to pass on that seed of greatness via a bloodline.
I have no issue with monsters being sources of bloodlines, just that the monster in question should be supernatural and larger than life. Dragons fit that bill, as do Fey, Elementals, certain species of giants, some of the original mermaid myths, deities, demigods, but orcs? The only way I could see an Orc bloodline would be if an orcish deity's avatar were the source. A bit of rewrite of the bloodline could work, but then it would be world specific, since not all worlds have orc gods.
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In general, magic is not in PF or D&D ascribed to raw anger, it's a more deliberate thing.For a wizard, absolutely.
For a sorcerer? A guy who can get angry enough that it mystically sets people on fire doesn't really bother me.
(The orc bloodline abilities are mostly gish-y, and strength/rage related, FWIW.)
Then I'm sure there will be Goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear bloodlines, with roguish type elements, and kobold bloodlines with trappish elements, and so on. :(
Don't get me wrong, I love the changes to sorcerers, and I love bloodlines. However, bloodlines should be associated with something magical, not everything under the sun. Orcs are just not in any sense of the word 'magical' as a race.
Fey : Fey are magical beings.
Elemental : Elementals are embodyments of element magic.
Dragons : Dragons are inherently magical.
Destined : Fate specifically chooses you, or you were descended from a line of kings and queens with divine right.
Aquatic : Mermaids are inherently magical, as are most other creatures you can be descended from.
Arboreal : Descended from giants, trolls, and spirits (all inherently magical)See the theme? All the bloodlines have to do with things that are inherently magical. Orcs are not inherently magical.
Well it depends how you interpret the whimsical nature of magic, I could also add to your list the following:
Elves: Faeries (not Fey) are considered the epitome of magical nature.
Aberrations: Call me Cthulu/Aboleth or whatever magical mass of flesh and appendages that cannot possibly be natural unless in some crazy nightmare.
Ogre Magi could be considered Arboreal or Fiends (taking the Golarion flavor or Oni possessing Ogres)
And since we already have an Eastern influence (see Oni above)
you could consider "Hot-Bloodedness" as a potential source of raw inherent magic that defies logic and laws of nature.
So IMO, yes Orcs could be the stereotype of "Hot-Blooded" magic, nothing throws a feat of rage as an Orc.
As for the OP the theme of Elf Sorcerer with Orcish Bloodline is a good chance for discussion between the player and his GM.
In my campaign a guest PC decided to create this Sorcerer as well, I allowed it as long as he would use the Crossblooded variant and choose also the Aberrant Bloodline as well since in my Campaign Setting Orcs and Elves weren't the same species that got transformed by the cruelty and malice of Morgoth.
I must admit, I would probably call the style police in some cases.
For example: Aasimar with Infernal/Abyssal bloodline? Unless you give me a good convincing reason, I'd say no.
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Orc bloodline is great for Rage Prophets (through the Eldritch Heritage feats of course).
Of course, if you believe that magic and brute power are mutually exclusive, you probably do not like the Rage Prophet anyway.
For my part, I feel that one of the greatest sentences ever uttered by Doctor Strange (former Supremer Sorceror of Marvel Comics) is "Strange smash !!!" (in World War Hulk)
Of course, if you believe that magic and brute power are mutually exclusive, you probably do not like the Rage Prophet anyway.
Strawman argument. It was orcs that didn't strike several people on the board (myself included) as inherently magical.