Funny, I'm flipping through my 3.0 DMG looking for a section on advanced weaponry for an upcoming gunslinger adventure, and I found in it the "sample dungeon." It's the exact same scenario and map as in the first DMG! Made me laugh.
Funny, I'm flipping through my 3.0 DMG looking for a section on advanced weaponry for an upcoming gunslinger adventure, and I found in it the "sample dungeon." It's the exact same scenario and map as in the first DMG! Made me laugh.
"Remember what Shakespeare said about a 'sea change'."
Ah...memories. The AD&D DMG was a great book for browsing through, whether you wanted information on the Boot Hill RPG, gag cartoons, or synonyms for "hooker". And it even had an ultra-condensed version of the Monster Manual in the back, too!
Funny, I'm flipping through my 3.0 DMG looking for a section on advanced weaponry for an upcoming gunslinger adventure, and I found in it the "sample dungeon." It's the exact same scenario and map as in the first DMG! Made me laugh."Remember what Shakespeare said about a 'sea change'."
Ah...memories. The AD&D DMG was a great book for browsing through, whether you wanted information on the Boot Hill RPG, gag cartoons, or synonyms for "hooker". And it even had an ultra-condensed version of the Monster Manual in the back, too!
And the famous "Appendix N." Goodman Games is putting out an RPG supposedly heavily influenced by Appendix N. Don't know why they cut out all the hookers in subsequent editions, though :)
Thanks for sharing. I think the art was a big part of that feel we've been discussing. For most of us, it was our first glimpse of orcs, trolls,kobolds, etc. There's a company you can find here on Paizo that makes minis with the 1st edition look (pig snouted orcs!).
I think art has a HUGE impact on the perception we have of a game and how it captures (or fails to) our imagination. I think this is particularly true in a RPG since the art directly links to the world and setting, and influences (or guides) our imagination a certain way. Same could be said about old school Buck Rodgers and "Jetsons" sci-fi art.
I would add that art is particularity influential when it is consistent, which 1st and 2nd editions (and now pathfinder) where more than 3rd.
Without doubt, Erol Otus's art (whether we like or not) is mind capturing and "otherworldly". 2nd edition is more "realistic" in its depiction of fantasy, and artists obviously consulted each other to create a coherent set of images using mainly the same medium. Planescape wouldn't (couldn't be) the same without Diterlizzi. Now there is a similar coherence lead by Wayne Reynold's art which, I'm sure, helps Paizo affirming its own identity.
Thinking of it, its not so much what 1st and 2ed had but what 3rd ed lacked in that department, and not for lack of talented artists (WAR among them). 3rd edition had a lot to contribute to RPG, but I don't think it will be remembered for its "feel" as much as other games.
'findel
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3rd edition had a lot to contribute to RPG, but I don't think it will be remembered for its "feel" as much as other games.
I think one positive thing about the art of 3rd edition, was that it did unify the concept of what certain monsters looked like; giving them a universally recognized image. Especially with the dragons, I mean with 1st and 2nd editions, the look of dragons was all over the place. No two dragons looked alike, with the only identifier being the color the artist painted it (and in some cases, no two dragons of the same color by the same artist looked the same)...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
3rd edition had a lot to contribute to RPG, but I don't think it will be remembered for its "feel" as much as other games.I think one positive thing about the art of 3rd edition, was that it did unify the concept of what certain monsters looked like; giving them a universally recognized image. Especially with the dragons, I mean with 1st and 2nd editions, the look of dragons was all over the place. No two dragons looked alike, with the only identifier being the color the artist painted it (and in some cases, no two dragons of the same color by the same artist looked the same)...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
3rd edition did indeed codified and unified many concepts, such as the appearance of dragons and how huge is huge etc.
Perhaps in retrospect we'll look at art from early 21st century and say "wow, this painting is very 3rd-ish" but somehow, I don't think it will ever be much of a nostalgic compliment. I may be wrong though, but I have a feeling that "feel" and art will not be what we'll remember of 3rd ed.
'findel
Perhaps in retrospect we'll look at art from early 21st century and say "wow, this painting is very 3rd-ish" but somehow, I don't think it will ever be much of a nostalgic compliment. I may be wrong though, but I have a feeling that "feel" and art will not be what we'll remember of 3rd ed.
'findel
It must be a matter of taste. For me, there's no consistent feel to 1st Edition art -- Jeff Dee art has little in common with Erol Otus art which has little in common with Larry Elmore art.
It must be a matter of taste. For me, there's no consistent feel to 1st Edition art -- Jeff Dee art has little in common with Erol Otus art which has little in common with Larry Elmore art.Perhaps in retrospect we'll look at art from early 21st century and say "wow, this painting is very 3rd-ish" but somehow, I don't think it will ever be much of a nostalgic compliment. I may be wrong though, but I have a feeling that "feel" and art will not be what we'll remember of 3rd ed.
'findel
Well, the nice thing about nostalgia is that you can conveniently "forget" the parts that don't match your biased selective memories :)
I agree that the artists 'wayback' all had different styles, but because it was all so new I just ook it as 'this is how artist X portrays things' and looked at it almost as though they were different directors making fantasy movies - different look and feel with different actors - but still part of the same genre as a whole... it planted the seed that we could see the same game in different ways, different look and feel.
I also gave them little halos as they were really the original 'pioneer artists' building a growing picture for our minds eye of what this was all about, and the stories implied in the picture were amazingly compelling - there was always a palpable feel in those (rough) sketches that the 'photorealistic images' just never managed to capture - I'd cite the 'honour amongst thieves' piece from the 1st ed DMG.
To me though, probably the first time I really sat up and had my mind blown about the sheer depth, scale, and magnitude of what was possible was when the Dark Sun materials came out for 2nd ed. It was new, fresh, and possibly the pinnacle of what 'could be done' that I have yet to see bettered.
just didn't care for the world that much (although that's more than likely due to a rubbish DM who never really conveyed the feel of that setting when running it!).
I ran a lot of DarkSun, though never got to play it :(
It was great for creating that deep gritty survival-every-day feel, while at the same time allowing players to occasionally feel like epic heroes (then back again before the scale and might of the 'Kings!)One of my gaming regrets.
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I have to say that to me the 1st ed AD&D DMG was probably one of the best resources available to Roleplaying fantasy ever and that includes things available now.
Building costs, mines, all the various random descriptors and names, that one book had pretty much everything in it.
About the only thing that came close to the stuff in it was the just as thorough but widely distributed (as in scattered through different products) tables from Judges Guild (the old JG)
If they had collated all those old tables and things into one book that would have been awesome as well. Any one here remember the old City State of the Invincible Overlord Setting?
Getting a bit more onto topic yes I started on the old white 3 book D&D with some additional stuff from JG because in those days you didn't have any campaign worlds. 3 classes Fighter, Wizard and Cleric and I think one race only Human.
I even remember the outdoor adventures rules from then - It was suggested that you needed to go and buy AHs Outdoor Survival Boardgame!
I was introduced to it during hmmm must have been something like 1977, and I can still remember the confusion when people were describing the classes - Fighter and Wizard I understood - but who would want to play an office worker or scribe in a Fantasy world? Of course I was reading Cleric as CLERK
I still have a white box set.
Paizo has some OGL Judge's Guild adventures for cheap- Citadel of Fire and Fortress of Something or Other. They just arrived in the mail today. These are updated 3.0 versions of the originals. Anyone ever play the originals and what do you think? (I love the old school art on the covers, classic stuff).