How to hit Nothing?

[FireberdGNOME]

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Part the First:
I am looking for suggestions on how disposable mook bad guys, can affect a Shadowdancer's Shadow pet.

PRD wrote:

Incorporeal (Ex) An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.

1) Magic Weapons

2) Spell, Magic Weapon
3) Spell, Magic Stone
4) Holy Water
5) Torches!
6) ...?
7) ...?

I don't want all of everything to be able to hit, but at least enough that it *can* be threatened. Also, I do not want to give every level 2 Barb the party faces a +1 Great Axe. (Besides, following the NPC WBL, it would be a 5th level minimum to get access to the 2k gold to *get* a magic weapon.) Giving every mook magic weapons would also *very* quickly throw off the party's disposable income: like giving them a Mithril Mine and a Dwarven forge!

Part the Second:
How do Demons (sic) fight Shadows/Incorporeal? Does their DR/Good/Cold Iron allow them to hit Incorporeal? Let's ask about a foe that has DR/Magic: can they hit the Shadow? I know that DR of a like type can cross the gap and *hurt* their own DR... but does that mean their 'magic' claws/bites/bad attitudes affect Incorporeal?

(side question: How do Shadows fight each other? Drain the non-existent STR? lol)

Thanks for the help :)

GNOME

[wraithstrike]

Using Adepts would work. They are an NPC class that does not need gear to hurt shadows. Jusr remember their spells only do half damage unless it is a force affect.

Burning Hands and Scorching Ray should be decent to use. The DR Magic is only magic for the purpose of bypassing DR. Shadows don't have DR. Demons can be given access to treasure that can bypass the hurt the shadow. I would not give it to all of them. It might start to look suspicious. Shadows can't hurt each other by the rules unless they have a ghost touch weapon, but the player might figure you are gunning for him. Giving team evil clerics(human cultist) who can restore the drained strength is less likely to raise suspicion. I would just make sure the cultist had a way to know the PC's were coming so it seems believable.

[YuenglingDragon]

FireberdGNOME wrote:

(side question: How do Shadows fight each other? Drain the non-existent STR? lol)

I suspect they talk it out. Intractable individuals only recourse if that doesn't work is rock, paper, scissors.

Ahem.

You could use oils to allow mooks to temporarily enhance their weapon. Even if your PCs ambush them before they get to use the oil, a couple bottles of it isn't going to toss character wealth out the window.

Your mooks could be monks. No gear at all on some baddies will help you balance some extra gear on others. If the flavor of monk is not appropriate for your campaign they could still be brawler types, thugs.

[FireberdGNOME]

I looked for Oils for weapons (as I distinctly remember them from 3.x) but could not find them in the Core Rules.

Adepts is a good idea, but I am also leaning towards maybe Druids amongst the baddies. Must prep Magic Weapon! :D

What is most frustrating about the whole thing is 1) I didn't recognize it as a problem til it was in play (grrr--Damn you dumb DM!), and 2) the fights were balanced almost exactly where I wanted them.

The party is a Rogue/Shadowdancer, Paladin, Life Oracle and Wizard. The Party's typical AC is about 25, less for the Wiz, more for the Pally. The bad guys (primarily a mix of melees (rogues, fighters, barbs) hit about 25% of the time-making them threatening, but not overwhelming (exactly where I want them :) ). I was looking forward to running fights that would challenge the party, stress them without 'forcing' them to retire after two scuffles.

GNOME

[YuenglingDragon]

Oils are with potions. Check it.

Magic Weapon oils come in at only 50gp a pop. GMW +2 comes in at 1200gp but with an 8 hour duration, your PCs would probably never get a hold of one.

[Phneri]

What level is the party?

If a PC gets an incorporeal undead thing to use, it's not unreasonable that some 'midboss' bad guys would have the same.

potions of magic weapon are 50gp and affordable by level 1-2 bad guys pretty easily. The occasional cleric to channel (+8 to the save isn't staggering, and still half damage) can work, too.

The anti-paladin and arcane duelist bard can also make their weapon ghost touch for a number of rounds/day by mid-levels.

Also, Arcane strike. Available very early. Absolutely damages shadow dude.

And remember the incorporeal create cannot strictly just pass through walls. It gets one free square. Beyond that it has to follow rooms, etc, etc. You can also harm a party who uses the shadow pet as their only scout, as it likely won't notice and cannot set off pressure-based traps.

[Fatespinner]

What about magic missile? Give an adept or rogue NPC a wand of them with maybe 10 charges. It's a force effect and it can't miss, deals full damage to the shadow and doesn't give much wealth to the party when they acquire it.

[Dreaming Psion]

What about low-level clerics of neutral-aligned gods (and may occaissionally the misled clerics of a good aligned god?) Channeling positive energy to damage undead works for the PCs, so why not the oppossition? A first level cleric is capable of casting magic weapon AND do 1d6 damage to undead with his channeling (will for half), although not in the same turn, naturally.