Are there any plans to do a lawful evil or chaotic good paladin?
This is of course not official and probably not the answer you were looking for, but I can't see any reason you can't make the Antipaladin Lawful Evil (or Neutral Evil).
In fact, since the Antipaladin still follows a Code of Conduct, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they are allowed to be chaotic, let alone must be chaotic. I know chaotic characters may still follow a personal code of sorts, but the whole "follows a code" thing is a lawful thing, as written in the alignment guidelines.
I imagine the challenge of a chaotic good paladin, particularly, would again be the Code of Conduct thing, which is a balancing point in the paladin class. There are other ways you could build a chaotic holy warrior, however.
What DeathQuaker said, but an alternative (3.5) is at:
http://greenronin.com/2006/08/book_of_the_righteous_holy_war.php
-- david
Papa.DRB
Are there any plans to do a lawful evil or chaotic good paladin?
Code... What code.
All i see is a Alignment Restriction. By the way people talk on the forum, i very much doubt that the Alignment restriction is ever enforceable at this point.
Code... What code.
This one:
Code of Conduct: An antipaladin must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly and altruistically commits good acts. This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark ends. An antipaladin's code requires that he place his own interests and desires above all else, as well as impose tyranny, take advantage whenever possible, and punish the good and just, provided such actions don't interfere with his goals.
Code... What code.This one:
Code of Conduct: An antipaladin must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly and altruistically commits good acts. This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark ends. An antipaladin's code requires that he place his own interests and desires above all else, as well as impose tyranny, take advantage whenever possible, and punish the good and just, provided such actions don't interfere with his goals.
And he should go out of his way to kick puppies and steal candy from children whenever possible.
I kinda feel that a tyrant would be more likely to be LE than a CE force for destruction but that's personal preference.
I understand the symmetry of LG-CE but from a fluff perspective a LE Servant of the Infernal makes so much more sense to me from an organizational perspective such as a league of LE Anti-Paladins makes more sense than solo CE anti-paladins. I think Paizo really hit on something with their Hellknights.
I'm not saying that a CE Anti-Paladin corrupted by Demons and carrying all sorts of demonic armor and weapons isn't completely cool but sometimes nuanced characters are better than over-the-top cardboard cutouts ;)
It's VERY enforceable, or at least as enforceable as your local DM which for PFS is the Campaign Guide which makes it clear that the only PLAYABLE option is the Lawful Good type.
I disagree. A CE character, even with such a strict "code" is all too easy to play, as long as the rest of your party aren't paladins and understand that what you bring to the table is worth watching you butcher the innocent occasionally.
Honestly if your GM is fine with it, houserule it and be done. That or play a caviler, which are paladins with no AL restrictions.
And Yes in PFS you can not play an antipaladin or a non LG paladin. Those are in the rules for PFS.
I see a chaotic good paladin having more of a mission statement than a code something like.
Protect the people of the land
Help those in need &
Fight tyrrany in all its forms
This way you guide the paladin with binding him in rules.
based on my understanding, there are no official plans as of now to do non LG or non CE Paladins or antipaladins respectively.
I see a chaotic good paladin having more of a mission statement than a code something like.
Protect the people of the land
Help those in need &
Fight tyrrany in all its formsThis way you guide the paladin with binding him in rules.
The problem here is then you're penalizing the default paladin by allowing the CG version to have all the power without the restraints.
Part of the classes intended balance comes from the rigid behavioral code.
Want to be a cut above the rest? Play by stricter rules.
I see a chaotic good paladin having more of a mission statement than a code something like.
Protect the people of the land
Help those in need &
Fight tyrrany in all its formsThis way you guide the paladin with binding him in rules.
The problem here is then you're penalizing the default paladin by allowing the CG version to have all the power without the restraints.
Part of the classes intended balance comes from the rigid behavioral code.
Want to be a cut above the rest? Play by stricter rules.
Fair point i didn't really think of it that way.
Although the anti paladin has all the same power and all he has to do is kick puppies. :P
I see a chaotic good paladin having more of a mission statement than a code something like.
Protect the people of the land
Help those in need &
Fight tyrrany in all its formsThis way you guide the paladin with binding him in rules.
The problem here is then you're penalizing the default paladin by allowing the CG version to have all the power without the restraints.
Part of the classes intended balance comes from the rigid behavioral code.
Want to be a cut above the rest? Play by stricter rules.
Fair point i didn't really think of it that way.
Although the anti paladin has all the same power and all he has to do is kick puppies. :P
And be the target of most other powerful beings (evil and good alike because good usually works together and evil is usually not to scared to screw another evil guy)
Paladin as a prestige class is kinda an outdated concept. AD&D might have had the Paladin be a Fighter++ which was balanced by having ridiculous ability score pre-reqs and a very challenging code of conduct but all the 3.x/3.P base classes are designed to be essentially balanced vs each other.
Being limited to LG and a vaguely defined code of conduct is more of a function of sacred cows than an actual mechanical limitation on play. The Paladin is also fairly unique in that many of his special effects are largely tied to alignment traits.
Smite Law just doesn't have the same appeal as Smite Evil ;)
If the GM wants to incorporate some sort of alternate alignment paladin types into the game I don't really see any real issue with it. It requires some homebrewing but for the most part it's pretty straight forward. Even the alignment effects (detect evil, smite, channel can generally be reversed pretty easily). For the most part the spell list can be easily reversed as well. The core difference would be whether you choose to alter lay on hands to do damage instead of healing (personally I'd shy away from that).
Overall I think efforts at breaking the Paladin out of the rigid western european tradition is a positive change.
Overall I think efforts at breaking the Paladin out of the rigid western european tradition is a positive change.
Why? What's wrong with keeping that vestige of the genre's core precepts alive?
Why? What's wrong with keeping that vestige of the genre's core precepts alive?
Overall I think efforts at breaking the Paladin out of the rigid western european tradition is a positive change.
For the most part publishers seem to be trying to break out of the eurocentric mold that fantasy and fantasy roleplaying games have largely limited themselves to.
Most campaign settings are still fantasy Europe, artwork is still pretty heavily eurocentric (Paizo is actually pretty good at avoiding that), etc.
However not everyone comes from a Western European tradition, as such classes that have rules that really tie them to a Eurocentric mindset can be really problematic.
I personally think that classes like the Paladin work best if they are culture agnostic so to speak. That way if you are playing bog standard High Fantasy Europe analog you can place a vague Judeo-Christian code of conduct on to the Paladin and your good to go. But if your campaign is Eastern themed, or African themed, or Native American in focus you don't have to import Western European ideals into a setting that doesn't really need it or benefit from it.
The Paladin actually less Eurocentric than the Cavalier (which I find to be a pretty limiting class personally) but I actually see value in making the class more generic even if it loses some of it's 1e flavor. After all reskinning it back to the Holy Warrior/Templar theme isn't really that hard.