so this is kinda a follow up question to a earlier post "pathfinder+3.5= dm's mess" i want to know some of your successful way of getting your players to switch from 3.5 to pathfinder you advice will very helpful .thank you
so this is kinda a follow up question to a earlier post "pathfinder+3.5= dm's mess" i want to know some of your successful way of getting your players to switch from 3.5 to pathfinder you advice will very helpful .thank you
In my opinion:
If you're running a 3.5 game, keep running it that way until it runs its course naturally.
When you start the next campaign, start it with PF core only. Probably there will be enough different/interesting things to play that it won't be a fight.
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As the Dire Mongoose said, I'd suggest waiting until the start of the next campaign rather than switching in mid story. Thats not to say a "switch" can't be done, but if there is any reluctance to make the change this will help smooth things over.
In my case I started a new game, and my players loved it. It was familiar enough that it was easy to play and run, but different enough that my players were encouraged to read the book. Actually, that also helped us out, since we had picked up a few (mis)interpretations of the rules that we fixed.
my grope has really short games as it is so waiting is not a problem. often we switch dm as well. even thew i had all my books open to ever one. i cant get players in my grope to want to play a pathfinder. i thank if i got the other dm in to pathfinder. i just cant sell it to some one who wont read the book and see the differentness.
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my grope has really short games as it is so waiting is not a problem. often we switch dm as well. even thew i had all my books open to ever one. i cant get players in my grope to want to play a pathfinder. i thank if i got the other dm in to pathfinder. i just cant sell it to some one who wont read the book and see the differentness.
I think you need to ask all the group whether they actually want to change. Try to sell them on it and maybe suggest a 1 session game with pre-gen characters that will highlight the main differences.
But if after all that they want to stick with 3.5, suck it up otherwise you may find yourself losing a player over this.
My group switched to Pathfinder at the time that the Core Rulebook was released but, as the DM, I chose to focus on continuing to make the game fun, not on making sure that we were adhering to the new rules.
That is:
1) I announced that we were going to be using Pathfinder as of a certain date (as the DM, I didn't want to wait for a new campaign), and I began studying and implementing the rules changes, but I didn't sweat anything in particular. If initially we used a V3.5 rule instead of a PF rule, I just let it go and kept the game moving, but made it a point to look up the rules between sessions. Each week, I discussed any rule differences/changes with our players as we gathered prior to our next game session. I still do this.
2) We made it a point to look up the rules in PF during our games (both by me, as the DM, and by my players), but didn't let it slow us down. If the rules changes weren't immediately obvious, we used the V3.5 set that we were familiar with, moved on, and made notes to study the PF rules later. This became easier as time went on, and we no longer need to reference the rules as much. I always reference the online PFSRD with a laptop during each game session, particularly for feats and spells, but again, I only spend a few moments referencing each rule. Anything more than a paragraph or two gets put on hold, gets studied between game sessions, and discussed before the next game session starts.
3) I left it up to the players to research any new PF character class that they wanted to switch to. Then, when they decided on a class, I familiarized myself with it and a week later, allowed them to roll it up and begin using it in play. I still allow classes from V3.5 into our game, but I scrutinize each and sometimes make minor adjustments to the class to better conform to PF. I've not noticed anything gamebreaking, but always perform a web search before allowing them into the game.
The key to all of this has been to relax, accept the fact that you'll play the game with a combination of V3.5 and PF during a bit of transition time, and focus on having fun. Being correct with the rules has taken a back seat to having fun. We've ended up following PF rules very closely, but allowed it to occur over time, not in one big cataclysmic event.
J.
i just cant sell it to some one who wont read the book and see the differentness.
Well, you could sell it without forcing them to read the book. The trick is to know your audience.
There's a guy I play with who loves fighters but eventually gave up on them in 3.X because straight-class fighters were terrible and he just was not the kind of guy who was going to pull out the tricks you needed to make a viable 3.X melee character. Point out to that guy some of the new features that the PF fighter gets and he's sold.
It doesn't even matter, to some degree, whether the class or character type in question is even good in Pathfinder -- just the fact that they're different and have some new things to play with usually makes the sale.
You can mention bits and pieces offhand during your 3.5 games if you want, as you come across rules that have changed or situations in which new class features would be cool.
Following on what dire mongoose said... I didn't have trouble getting the group to switch, but I think one thing that compelled both me and my players particularly was seeing how the characters were easier/more fun/more effective to build in Pathfinder -- e.g., the Fighter/Rogue's class skills were more freed up, the Arcane Archer got spell advancement, etc.
So one thing I might try is borrow the players' character sheets and simply rebuild them in Pathfinder, then tell them to compare.
When they see they have more skills (and can buy cross class skills at no penalty), more feats, better ability scores, more racial abilities, etc..... maybe they'll come around. :)
IF you are going to attempt a switch mid-race, you may also want to inject bits of Pathfinder-specific rules into your game to get a feel for how your players respond to change in general and their taste for the updates. The trick there is injecting things that play well with being stand alone snippets.
For instance I wouldn't change spell descriptions or try to implement class features mid stride. I would focus more on combat items that have been changed that are (for Pathfinder fans at least) improved.
My vote would be to introduce them to CMB, CMD and the way those mechanics make combat maneuvers an interesting and fun addition to the usual "you hit, he hits, she hits...." combat of 3.5. Another change in the Pathfinder rules that my group has loved is the way incorporeal is handled from a damage perspective. The way they take half damage is a simple and effective solution to the annoying "oop the attack does no damage, sorry Kenny." There are other bits and peices you can unleash on your crew, but I'd have to dig into my book to find other good examples.
I only have four words for you, which won't be very helpful: "Preaching to the choir."
I didn't have to convince anyone.
I can only give you theoretical advice: Tell them all the things you think are better in PF than in 3e.