Hey everyone,
Actually in a game for a change. Had a character that started off in 3.5 as what was going to be a Scout/Warmage. However, due to how the game progressed during level one, he's become a Scout/Warlock.
At 2nd level, the GM moved us to Pathfinder, so now he's a Rogue(Scout)/Warlock. Now, I'm not asking for min/max ideas so much as general progression ideas. I don't need to min/max for the game, it's fairly relaxed, and nobody is min/maxing or even heavily optimizing their characters, so I'm more just looking for ideas.
The setup is that a world is undergoing some Rifts's style instability. All our characters got yoinked into this world via unstable rifts. Magic is very unstable as a result when the rifts open, magic items that haven't acclimated to it yet have a tendancy to explode, and magic users get blinding headaches when the rifts are active.
As such, magic items are both cheap, and dangerous. Items that have proven stable pull a better price and are being horded. So any enchantments we do on our own equipment could explode on us the first time a rift comes through.
My character was supposed to be a warmage, he went to a warmage college, but the ritual that bound all the spell knowledge in him failed when one of the wizards doing it had a heartattack mid ritual. My character got blasted with uncontrolled magic and spent most of his 15th year learning to be alive again. So he's frail physically (although his body seems to be driven on by something unearthly which kept him from dieing). The trip through the rift has caused all that magic bound into him to absorb rift magic, and he's becoming a spontaneous warlock (IE: His source of magic isn't the usual evil sources, it's wild magic).
Anyway, that's the background. Here's my character so far :
Rogue 1/Warlock 1
Str(7), Dex(15), Con(13), Int(18), Wis(11), Cha(16)
He's got weapon finesse and dodge, and at least 1 rank in all his class skills (2 ranks in perception and stealth). His two traits are Armor Expert and Magical Knack.
He was using a short bow and a short sword, mostly the bow. Once he realizes he can blast with magic, he'll stop using the bow and sword. I took Eldritch Glaive for his least invocation, as it allows him to deliver a melee touch attack with his blast, at reach, which is good for sneak attacking someone.
Currently, I'm planning on going 2 rogue levels for each warlock level. I'm already acting as the team face (two of the players are playing warforged, a fighter and an artificer, neither of which is considered 'alive' in this realm, while my wife is playing a druid with an INT of 8, who has no skill points for skills). I'm also doing most of the appraising and purchasing/selling, diplomacy, negotations, etc. So far, that's working out ok.
What I'm looking for hear is ideas, things that compliment the two classes and synergize well. But, also things that are 'cool', I'd prefer cool over powerful.
That sounds really fun! Enjoy that!
What are the parameters 3.5 wise?
That sounds really fun! Enjoy that!
What are the parameters 3.5 wise?
We're pretty open so far, but I'd rather stay with PF stuff, except for Warlock specific stuff from 3.5.
EDIT: And yeah, the character is turning out to be fun so far.
Shadowdancer sounds cool for your character.
Levels in Arcane Trickster if they advance your Warlock abilities could be interesting as well, the BAB doesn't hurt as much if you're relying on touch attacks.
Maybe something like Rogue 8/Warlock 4/Shadowdancer 4?
Sticking with warlock always works too. Taking some levels in Wizard with the focused Teleportation school (or even just one?) could be cool too. Charging in with Eldritch Glaive, then swift actioning to teleport away after sounds really fun. I don't know how that will work with the Rift concept.
Just a couple ideas. Getting into Eldritch Knight and going more melee could work too.
Rogue 8/Warlock 5/EK 7 could be an interesting way to boost power.
Shadowdancer sounds cool for your character.
Levels in Arcane Trickster if they advance your Warlock abilities could be interesting as well, the BAB doesn't hurt as much if you're relying on touch attacks.
Maybe something like Rogue 8/Warlock 4/Shadowdancer 4?
Sticking with warlock always works too. Taking some levels in Wizard with the focused Teleportation school (or even just one?) could be cool too. Charging in with Eldritch Glaive, then swift actioning to teleport away after sounds really fun. I don't know how that will work with the Rift concept.
Just a couple ideas. Getting into Eldritch Knight and going more melee could work too.
Rogue 8/Warlock 5/EK 7 could be an interesting way to boost power.
Yeah, I need to go at least Rogue 7 to get my sneak attack after moving 10 feet. Not so sure how many levels of warlock I want, probably enough to get a couple of least invocations and a lesser. Have to look at shadowdancer, I rarely go into prestige classes, but it's possible. Not sure warlock qualifies for EK, since he can't cast arcane spells.
You'll need Rogue 8 for Skirmisher, actually.
If you dislike PrCs, you could always go Mobile Fighter for flavor to up your BAB if you so desire.
In the PrC section of Complete Arcane, where Warlock is, they explain the rules for Warlocks and PrCs. Since they don't technically cast spells, you're right about EK. However, since PF never uses the "X caster level" requirement for PrCs (which are the ones Warlocks can get into), it's certainly worth discussing with your DM to see if those requirements stand of are flexible.
Witch might be interesting to look at as well, as the Hexes kind of go well with invocations flavor wise. Just a thought, dunno how well that works out.
I'm fairly certain EK is out. Looked up SD (finally had time), but the flavor of the class is just two darkness oriented. My character is CG, and while he's a warlock class, his powers are not actually infernal in origin, they're wild magic in origin. So, there are certain invocations I will never take (devil sight, hellfire, etc) to stay in 'theme' for his powers. So the shadowdancer is a bit too dark for him.
I looked up prestige classes, both APG and 3.5 splatbooks, but nothing seemed to fit.
I like it. Hm... so a "switch hitter" it looks like... that strength score hurts though...
I would recommend the devil's sight invocation and the flight invocation too. After that I really like Chain blast. On the feats side of things toughness seems like a good choice to me.
Complete mage had a prestige class that was more of a "heaven's devil" (as opposed to Hell's Angel) that was good oriented that might work for you.
But the prestige class I would recommend the hardest would be the harrower. Some of the abilities would need slight tweaking (like all of them) but it has random class mechanics that would tie in well to a "wild mage" sort of feel.
Your character really reminds me of the Wishsong from the druids of sha...(something) series.
I like it. Hm... so a "switch hitter" it looks like... that strength score hurts though...
I would recommend the devil's sight invocation and the flight invocation too. After that I really like Chain blast. On the feats side of things toughness seems like a good choice to me.
Complete mage had a prestige class that was more of a "heaven's devil" (as opposed to Hell's Angel) that was good oriented that might work for you.
But the prestige class I would recommend the hardest would be the harrower. Some of the abilities would need slight tweaking (like all of them) but it has random class mechanics that would tie in well to a "wild mage" sort of feel.
Your character really reminds me of the Wishsong from the druids of sha...(something) series.
Yeah, he'll be equally at home blasting and melee attacking. The STR score hurts, but, he has weapon finess, and the eldritch blast would never get str bonus anyway, even in melee, so it's a moot point.
Devil sight has a bad flavor unless I rename it. I was actually thinking See the Unseen (the ability to see invisible foes all day is a bigger advantage I think, and I can still see via darkvision).
Flight's pretty high, not sure if I'll have enough levels for that. I need to get 8 in rogue for the skirmish ability. Moving 10 feet and blasting someone 60 feet away (with sniper goggles) with an energy blast and doing sneak attack seems a very good use of power combos. One big sure hit each round. Not the winner of the DPR, but very steady and useful damage.
As to the Wishsong, yeah, Druid of Shanarra, Wishsong of Shanarra, and so on. Haven't read those in a long time, but yeah, same flavor.
Not familliar with the harrower PC, not even sure which book it's in.
Harrower is in the campaign settings book and is low on the BAB so you might not like it.
See the unseen is much better flavorwise I agree. I would suggest that a "practiced caster" sort of feat and quicken and maximize spell like ability feats might be worth while -- then when you move 10 feet you can get out two blasts instead of just one.
Harrower is in the campaign settings book and is low on the BAB so you might not like it.
See the unseen is much better flavorwise I agree. I would suggest that a "practiced caster" sort of feat and quicken and maximize spell like ability feats might be worth while -- then when you move 10 feet you can get out two blasts instead of just one.
Yep, I have the Magical Knack trait already. That gives me a +2. Won't really affect anything but the DCs when I add blast shapes, or SR penetration (I think they get SR against it), but it helps. And it's a trait bonus to CL, so I could get the feat as well and stack the two. Quicken might be worth it in a couple of levels.
The extra Invocation Feat is very good feat for a Warlock, lots of bang for you buck with that one.
Invocations that I feel would reflect the wild magic aspect.
Entropic Warding
Spidewalk: seems to let you break the laws of reality, walking on
walls and such.Witchwood Step: Walking on water is always cool.
I dont really think you need a prestige class. Rogue/Warlock is a nice combo as is. at 18th level if game goes that high you would have 12 Rogue/6 Warlock. I would add the other two levels to Warlock for 12/8
Also Eldritch blast basically goes up 1d6 every odd level and Steak attack has the same progression. The only difference is that Eldritch blast damage doesnt require the sneak attack conditions to apply. if you need 8th Rogue for skirmisher I would think about going 10/10 Rogue/Warlock. that would net you the 5d6 base blast and 5d6 sneak attack. Also you could open yourself up to more invocations.
Yeah, the extra invocation is nice. I need to get point blank and precise shot first, unfortunately. I actually considered a dip into one level of fighter for the bab/fort/combat feat, and the weapon proficiencies. Still might do it. I want to go two for one until I get skirmish, then probably level up in Warlock. The skill points from rogue won't hurt either.
Yep, I have the Magical Knack trait already. That gives me a +2. Won't really affect anything but the DCs when I add blast shapes, or SR penetration (I think they get SR against it), but it helps. And it's a trait bonus to CL, so I could get the feat as well and stack the two. Quicken might be worth it in a couple of levels.Harrower is in the campaign settings book and is low on the BAB so you might not like it.
See the unseen is much better flavorwise I agree. I would suggest that a "practiced caster" sort of feat and quicken and maximize spell like ability feats might be worth while -- then when you move 10 feet you can get out two blasts instead of just one.
Yeah it's those later levels when it's really needed anyways -- after all a single blast generally isn't enough after about level 10 regardless of campaign style.
Might as well change the name to See the Unseen, that's what they changed the name to for the Dragonfire Adept.
Would also suggest Deteriorating Blast eventually for foes with DR.
Might as well change the name to See the Unseen, that's what they changed the name to for the Dragonfire Adept.
Would also suggest Deteriorating Blast eventually for foes with DR.
See the Unseen gives See Invisible and Darksight (60).
Devil Sight gives Darksight (60), and see in magical darkness. However, in PF, darkness spell does not stop darksight, so even if I took Devil Sight by another name, I'd be better off with See the Unseen.
Yep, looked at Deteriorating blast, I'll probably be taking it eventually.
Yep, I have the Magical Knack trait already. That gives me a +2. Won't really affect anything but the DCs when I add blast shapes, or SR penetration (I think they get SR against it), but it helps. And it's a trait bonus to CL, so I could get the feat as well and stack the two. Quicken might be worth it in a couple of levels.Harrower is in the campaign settings book and is low on the BAB so you might not like it.
See the unseen is much better flavorwise I agree. I would suggest that a "practiced caster" sort of feat and quicken and maximize spell like ability feats might be worth while -- then when you move 10 feet you can get out two blasts instead of just one.
Actually Magical Knack will effect your eldritch blast damage.
Eldritch blast is an Invocation, this is clarified in the Eratta for the Complete Arcane. So Magical Knack will actually net you an extra 1d6 to your eldritch blast (except for the levels after like 10 when the progression shifts slightly).
Hmm, Ok, I need to look that up then, if that's true, I can see I'm going to need the feat as well eventually.
Ok,
Nothing in the errata about the invocation being affected by CL. And, the FAQ specifically says that Practiced Spellcaster doesn't work for the Warlock. Ergo, Magical Knack would not either. Looks like I'll need to modify that trait. :(
However, the Errata does state that an invocation is the equivalent of a 1st level arcane spell. And any invocations that modify it have a caster level equivalent associated with them. Therefore, any prestige classes that have 'must be able to cast Nth level arcane spells' are valid for me to take, provided I have an invocation that meets N. So, I believe Arcane Trickster would be a valid for me to take provided I (A) gained the ability to cast Mage Hand which I believe I could do with a Rogue Talent, and also had an Invocation that was equivalent to a second level spell.
EDIT : Not that I'd want to, the class is rather blah to me. But just pointing it out as an example. And it was Spell Level equivalent, not caster level equivalent.