Skill Ranks - Level Stat Increase

[Shar Tahl]

If you hit level 8 and your INT stat increase moves you to a new bonus, does your entire skill point total increase to equal to (level x bonus) or do you only benefit for level 8 on?

[KaeYoss]

All the way down, all the way up. This means that you'd get 8 skill points at once at that point.

[Theconiel]

As an example, when my rogue character reached level 4, her intelligence increased from 11 (no bonus) to 12 (+1 bonus). So her skills per level increased from 8 to 9. She now has 36 skill ranks (9*4=36), just as if her intelligence had always been 12.

An increase in CON and its associated increase in hit points would, I think, also be "retroactive". Yes?

[Allard]

Theconiel wrote:

As an example, when my rogue character reached level 4, her intelligence increased from 11 (no bonus) to 12 (+1 bonus). So her skills per level increased from 8 to 9. She now has 36 skill ranks (9*4=36), just as if her intelligence had always been 12.

An increase in CON and its associated increase in hit points would, I think, also be "retroactive". Yes?

Yes you are right about the con

[Bruno Kristensen]

This was different in 3.5 and previous, where the INT increase wasn't retroactive (but the CON increase was). I'm glad they removed that, as it makes it easier to create higher level characters this way.

[Theconiel]

Bruno Kristensen wrote:

This was different in 3.5 and previous, where the INT increase wasn't retroactive (but the CON increase was). I'm glad they removed that, as it makes it easier to create higher level characters this way.

I think they changed the rule purely for simplicity.

[Anguish]

Theconiel wrote:

I think they changed the rule purely for simplicity.

That'd be the reason I house-rule headbands of vast intellect to work the same way. No "embedded" skill inside each one. Nope. You wear it, you pick it. As long as my players don't cheese-ball on me and start taking it off for a day in order to pick different skills, I don't really care about the verisimilitude.

[chaoskin]

KaeYoss wrote:

All the way down, all the way up. This means that you'd get 8 skill points at once at that point.

ext

int mod 4 ronge 1 = 12 if you start with int 19
int mod 4 ronge 2 = 12
int mod 4 ronge 3 = 12
int mod 5 ronge 4 = 13 in int now 20
int mod 5 ronge 6 = 13
int mod 5 ronge 7 = 13
int mod 5 ronge 8 = 13 other point in int 21
int mod 5 ronge 10 = 13
int mod 5 ronge 11 = 13
int mod 6 ronge 12 = 14 other point in int now 22
int mod 6 ronge 13 = 14

this is what i was told when i was going up in level and this is what i tell ppl when doing skill points.

[KaeYoss]

chaoskin wrote:

KaeYoss wrote:

All the way down, all the way up. This means that you'd get 8 skill points at once at that point.

ext

int mod 4 ronge 1 = 12 if you start with int 19
int mod 4 ronge 2 = 12
int mod 4 ronge 3 = 12
int mod 5 ronge 4 = 13 in int now 20
int mod 5 ronge 6 = 13
int mod 5 ronge 7 = 13
int mod 5 ronge 8 = 13 other point in int 21
int mod 5 ronge 10 = 13
int mod 5 ronge 11 = 13
int mod 6 ronge 12 = 14 other point in int now 22
int mod 6 ronge 13 = 14

this is what i was told when i was going up in level and this is what i tell ppl when doing skill points.

Not according to the standard Pathfinder rules:

A rogue with int 19 (let's say he's not human and gets HP for favoured class) gets 12 skill points per level

That means on level 1 he has 12, at 2 24, at 3 36, at 4 48.

However should he increase his int to 20 on level 4, he'd now get 13 skill points for each level. That extra skill point for having int 20 rather than 19 is for each and every hd you have.

So at that point, you'd be on level 4 with 52 (4 x 13) skill points.

This used to be different in D&D 3e (including 3.5e), but in Pathfinder, it works like that.

It's way easier to create higher-level characters that way, since you don't have to think about when their intelligence was increased. And it complements the new class skill rules rather well, which make creating multiclassed NPCs a lot easier.

[reefwood]

KaeYoss wrote:

Not according to the standard Pathfinder rules:

A rogue with int 19 (let's say he's not human and gets HP for favoured class) gets 12 skill points per level

That means on level 1 he has 12, at 2 24, at 3 36, at 4 48.

However should he increase his int to 20 on level 4, he'd now get 13 skill points for each level. That extra skill point for having int 20 rather than 19 is for each and every hd you have.

So at that point, you'd be on level 4 with 52 (4 x 13) skill points.

This used to be different in D&D 3e (including 3.5e), but in Pathfinder, it works like that.

It's way easier to create higher-level characters that way, since you don't have to think about when their intelligence was increased. And it complements the new class skill rules rather well, which make creating multiclassed NPCs a lot easier.

I think you're right. I would have not thought so before reading this thread, but I think I'm convinced. I just wish the rules were a little more clear about it.

The Permanent Bonuses and Ability Drain entries in the Glossary do say that you might be able to gain or lose skill points. I never thought of them as being retroactive gains or losses... only that they would take effect at the next level up... but I suppose if this were the case, you wouldn't lose skill points, you would only gain less skil points next time. Losing and gaining less are two separate things, and the book does saying lose.

But dang, they really should have made it clearer.

p.s. - I thought that losing skill points would only have been if you lost the headband of vast intelligence because even though this item is linked to one skill per 2 pts of Int increase, it doesn't say that you don't also gain more skill points at level up. I figured this item gave you 1 skill point in the linked skill for every level AND additional skill points for increasing Int mod but only starting at the next level up, not retroactive.

[Mr.Alarm]

Anguish wrote:

Theconiel wrote:

I think they changed the rule purely for simplicity.

That'd be the reason I house-rule headbands of vast intellect to work the same way. No "embedded" skill inside each one. Nope. You wear it, you pick it. As long as my players don't cheese-ball on me and start taking it off for a day in order to pick different skills, I don't really care about the verisimilitude.

I do the same thing.