Hey Kaze, you doing anything with your Move Action?
Saving your Performance for other uses was the whole idea behind using the buff rounds to cast Good Hope, right?
Dirge of Doom? Bladethirst? I wouldn`t mind getting a Speed weapon from ya...
I can't give the Speed Enchant until lvl 12, right? It's a +3 bonus, which requires lvl 6 + 3 + 3... is that right?
2 images remaining (33% miss chance)
I think you got confused over how miss chance works: If you have X% miss chance, you will mis X% of the time ,and hit 100-X% of the time. You have 2 images, or 2/3 miss chance, which is 66% miss chance, NOT 33%. THis is why not converting to percentages and just rolling dicesides=(images+1), highest hitting the real-you, is less goof-proof.
@Bladethirst: Yeah, I overlooked that, I was just thinking why the hell our bard has never yet performed, and since I thougth you had good chances to be Grappled, it seemed something to do that didnt´ even provoke AFAIK. ...I won´t complain if you actually cast Haste either.
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@Wraith: What can I do? I´m happy to take the less controversial option, just let me know...
I think Torinath mentioned that the Lion isn´t actually adjacent (even though it looks like that on the map) since they are separated by 5´ vertically... In which case I can´t Cleave the Lion...????
d'Eben, with two images left shouldn't your miss chance be 66% rather than 33%?
Also, shouldn't the confusion spell hit my Lion as well?
Mofiddy, the concentration DC was 32, Ryllandaras has a +4 on grapple CMB.
Also, looks like no one noticed on my turn, but I had asked if you applied the +2 from flanking on the lion's grapple check? or even the +2 from charging?
Quandary, I'm pretty sure with her elevation of 20' Latrine is at least 10' above the lion.
Mirror Image - yes, that's right, I was just in a hurry when i threw it together.
Confusion: I wanted to target the liion as well.. i figured it had protection by Latrine's Globe of Invul... or is she too high up for it to extend to him? If he's in the spread as well and unprotected from it, then yes, yes, and yes have the lion make the save as well.
It`s in the game thread, under the spoiler in my last post...
I rolled a 21 which WITH a running start would have been 5` (which I mistakenly called it as), without a running start (which was my case) it is only 2/ 2.5`. (depending on which part of the conflicting rules you read... I described the conflicting/overlapping concepts of `DC`=failure/success and `result`=distance in my last post above)I didn`t have a running start, and wasn`t expecting to jump the entire height, which is obviously outsides the realm of possibility by the rules (my 1st turn when I actually did clear a 10` high Jump I was benefitting from Haste speed bonus, but even in that case I wasn`t actually EXPECTING to clear 10` - I just happened to roll a Nat. 20 - and was also planning to merely raise my elevation and scramble over the then-thigh-high edge). Again in this case, without benefit of running start or haste, I was just planning to exploit any distance I could Jump (which is at full speed) to reduce the distance I needed to Climb/scramble at reduced speed over the wall`s corner, i.e. making it more like scrambling over a coffee table for a Medium character. (if it matters, I actually first wrote the Jump when I BELIEVED that climbing/scrambling over the corner could be `disrupted`, so thought it smarter draw the AoO while Jumping first... although I couldn`t find any such rule in the end...)
If the RAW says Hyundai couldn`t possibly have achieved what I aimed to with this action, or that the chances for catastrophic failure (eg fallig Prone) were signifigant, then I can just take another course of action if you prefer... (like Deverau chose to re-target a valid intersection rather than an invalid square.... although his informed choice in that matter backfired for him).
A 10 foot high jump is a DC 40.
You got a total of 21 if I understand correctly.The rules say you get a +4 for every 10 feet of base land movement. I really don't see the difference between running a speed naturally, and doing it through magic so that is a +12
21+12=33
Since you failed the jump by 5 or more you don't get to grab the ledge but land directly in front of the wall standing up.
There was no way you could have mathematically made that jump.
I'm pretty sure it was decided that Hyundia no longer has haste which leaves him with the 21 again. The DC also turned out to be 80 in this case, since he didn't have a running start.
However, I think this entire issue is based off of a couple misconceptions about what was being attempted. Quandary had no intention of jumping the full way. He was merely trying to get himself into a better position to pull himself onto the top of the wall. Given that I think Hyundia is tall enough to simply grab onto the top of the wall while standing and haul himself up (DC 15), I have a hard time believing that he really has a chance to fail the jump.
By RAW I don't think making a jump check will have any discernible benefit in this situation. From a rules perspective, the jump check was simply a matter of fluff, and as such I don't think there is any chance of him failing the check. The jump check should be treated more like an attempt to jump as high as possible for a contest or something similar. He should simply make a DC 15 climb check to pull himself to the top of the wall and go from there.
On an aside, I think this is a cool idea that simply doesn't have any defined rules. Were I GMing I would lower the DC to 5 if he made it at least 5ft on the jump and maybe even make it DC 10 if he got at least 2.5ft but that might be breaking up the check too much.
Just my thoughts...
Yeah, Rallick has my idea exactly... It was more something like ´why NOT jump up first?´. I never imagined Hyundai would or could make a 10´ jump, I was planning to scramble over the edge, but didn´t even know if that required any check in the first place (given the relative proportios involved), or what DC it would be, so was just expecting Wraith to tell me if it was more than DC 14 (auto-pass for Hyundai currently). Anyhow, wierd it got this complicated, I can update my action otherwise in a bit.
Yeah, Rallick has my idea exactly... It was more something like ´why NOT jump up first?´. I never imagined Hyundai would or could make a 10´ jump, I was planning to scramble over the edge, but didn´t even know if that required any check in the first place (given the relative proportios involved), or what DC it would be, so was just expecting Wraith to tell me if it was more than DC 14 (auto-pass for Hyundai currently). Anyhow, wierd it got this complicated, I can update my action otherwise in a bit.
That would be a climb check (You can flavor text climb checks too) with it's own baggage, I.e. Being flat-footed and greatly reduced speed... But that I guess is for another discussion. Assuming you do not need to make another Fort save from the poison cloud, you have slain the cook. I will add my post once that is determined. I am not at my usual computer so I cannot access the PDF.
OK, your post wasn´t fully conclusive for me Wrath...
You repeated what I said earlier, ´there was no possible way to make a 10´ jump´, which explains why I wasn´t trying to do that, but rather ´scrambling over the wall´ like I wrote... I still don´t get how Hyundai ´didn´t get to grab the ledge´, given it´s at/below his head height (Hyundai can grab things up to 20´ high while standing flat - Rallick mentioned a 15 Climb DC which Hyundai could pass on a 2 and I believe movement wasn´t a problem), but since I wasn´t getting a clear answer on my question to you ´What CAN I do´? (i.e. I just wanted to know what valid options Hyundai would/could take, like Deverau earlier chose a valid action stripping one Hyundai´s images), I decided to post the least-controversial option...
Let the fight go on...
Also, climbing requires two free hands, anyways I am done once we get the cloud save handled, if it is necessary.
Ok, looking everything over I have determined that I really need an answer as to whether or not you apply the +2's from a charge and flanking to the free grapple check provided by the grab ability. Looking at it I think they might apply and in that case, Kaze is actually grappled by the lion and that may affect my AoO on Hyundia since the lion's mouth will no longer be free. Can anyone give me a clarification?
Ok, looking everything over I have determined that I really need an answer as to whether or not you apply the +2's from a charge and flanking to the free grapple check provided by the grab ability. Looking at it I think they might apply and in that case, Kaze is actually grappled by the lion and that may affect my AoO on Hyundia since the lion's mouth will no longer be free. Can anyone give me a clarification?
It seems the post monster showed up. In short yes you get both bonuses.
So latrine's down and I'm grappled on the first claw attack?
What does that mean for my mirror images? Do they still affect the lion when i'm grabbed? That could vastly alter waht i'm capable of (or even if i'm alive).
Let me knwo andi'll modify my actions.
It looks like Kaze lucked out (relatively speaking, hehe), and the Lion (barely) hit one of his Mirror Images (62 vs. 66% miss chance). His actions resolve before Hyundai`s and he has his full allotment of actions to take... Just things that require Concentration may be interrupted (I don`t believe Performance does - good time for Dirge of Doom?).
Re: Lion AoO, I`ve never heard of any exception like Rallick mentioned... If you have the Grappled condition, you can`t take AoO`s.
I see that as representing continually struggling/focus as much as an issue of free limbs (creatures with Grab have an option to take -20 and not have grappled condition themselves, i.e. depending on one appendage to maintain the grapple vs. their whole body, but that isn`t the case here). I think that per RAW it would have to do drop the Grapple w/ Kaze on it`s own turn, releasing Kaze to act freely, in order to threaten/ take AoO`s.
Lethe took ANOTHER AoO against me, but she already took one against me, and AFAIK you only provoke one AoO from Movement per Turn. Probably just forgot the last one...
(Deverau does still need to take an AoO against Hyundai, if he is going to at all... If the Lion IS Grappled, I don`t think you get the Flanking bonus, but of course with your Invis you still get Sneak Attack.)
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Lethe took ANOTHER AoO against me, but she already took one against me, and AFAIK you only provoke one AoO from Movement per Turn. Probably just forgot the last one...
(Deverau does still need to take an AoO against Hyundai, if he is going to at all)
Actually it seemed that your character rolled again for the acrobatics check to avoid Lethe's AoO (rolled once in the spoiler section then after a few posts made another Acrobatics check to avoid AoO) so I assumed we were just starting from scratch.
I rolled again because the threat area of the Lion/Deverau is distinct from Lethe`s, and Acrobatics suggests you need to Tumble for each `square` (effectively threat area, given only 1 AoO per turn can be provoked from Movement). ...Sorry if I confused things with the `anybody not dead` reference, I was just being dramatic :-)
^
you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics.
Situation: Move through a threatened area ..... Base Acrobatics DC*: Opponent's Combat Maneuver Defense
* This DC is used to avoid an attack of opportunity due to movement. This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round.
Since the areas/squares are distinct, it seems like they are separate rolls, since each check only moves thru `a` threatened area/square. My second check vs. Lion/Deverau was penalized for the additional opponents (I doubt I could have passed the 2nd check no matter what I rolled). In Lethe`s threat area where I provoked vs. her, Hyundai hadn`t yet needed to Tumble vs. the 2 other opponents, so the original roll was valid for her, and the 2nd one wasn`t. Again, sorry for the confusion.
No worries, Kaze needs to state his actions as well...
Sorry for the delay :
It looks like Kaze lucked out (relatively speaking, hehe), and the Lion (barely) hit one of his Mirror Images (62 vs. 66% miss chance). His actions resolve before Hyundai`s and he has his full allotment of actions to take... Just things that require Concentration may be interrupted (I don`t believe Performance does - good time for Dirge of Doom?).
Re: Lion AoO, I`ve never heard of any exception like Rallick mentioned... If you have the Grappled condition, you can`t take AoO`s.
I see that as representing continually struggling/focus as much as an issue of free limbs (creatures with Grab have an option to take -20 and not have grappled condition themselves, i.e. depending on one appendage to maintain the grapple vs. their whole body, but that isn`t the case here). I think that per RAW it would have to do drop the Grapple w/ Kaze on it`s own turn, releasing Kaze to act freely, in order to threaten/ take AoO`s.
I think you are mistaken, the claw attack with the 62% miss chance is for the attack of opportunity on Hyundia. My roll for the Bite that caused Kaze to be grappled was 99.
On that note, I believe I must have been incorrectly remembering the specifics of a thread I had looked over about a month ago. It is in fact impossible to make AoO's while grappled so disregard my post in the arena...sorry for the confusion.
OK, I was confused because of the miss chance...
Hyundai no longer has any Mirror Images because of Deverau`s reckless but lucky Smoke Bomb* which stripped the last Image, and the Lion`s AoO wouldn`t have attacked into the smoke like Lethe`s (which missed anyways so I didn`t roll Miss Chance for that). But it sounds like the Lion can`t make AoO anyways...
* Seriously, such a dramatic goof-up -knowingly chosen!- and then he rolled `Act Normally` and only takes -1 WIS, what luck!
better lucky than good ^^
I still need to know if the lion (grappling Kaze) is still subjec to Mirror Image or not before I can continue.
(not sure of your question completely)
i´m pretty sure that since grab allows a grapple attempt to trigger off the same bite attack (that already beat mirror image), at least we are playing it that no further mirror image roll is needed for the grapple roll which succeeded, i.e. it is the same attack in a sense. you still have more mirror images up, so any FURTHER attacks or grapples against you would need to roll miss-chance, though. ...AFAIK.
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Deverau didn´t hit Hyundai with his AoO.
I still need to know if the lion (grappling Kaze) is still subjec to Mirror Image or not before I can continue.
Once the lion has him grappled I am ruling that mirror image is not applying to the lion.
If you are asking about the free grap attempt then Quandry is correct.
OK, hope that addresses his question then...
if it helps speed things up, my advice:
if you have a high concentration, you could try casting in grapple,
or else just attack it (with combat expertise?, increasing your AC and CMD),
you COULD try to break the grapple/ escape artist, but then you can´t use combat expertise AFAIK.
if you do break out, it looks like you can 5´ step to where you are no longer Flanked.
you can perform dirge of doom no matter what, and that helps you prevent getting re-grappled/hit... (along with the rest of our party)
I don´t think he passes the Concentration check...
If he did, and he failed his own Save vs. Confusion, there would be the uncomfortable ruling of whether Dirge of Doom would now apply to everybody since he can´t distinguish allies vs. foes, or if the effect is more that his allies woulnd´t be affected because we still regard him as our ally, and thus the Dirge is just confirming that he, on our team, is a bad-ass, which is only a ´scary´ realization for the other team.
I'm prettysure it doesn't pass the concentration check as well.
Also, sorry for being the slow-down. Work exploded... it should get better today or tomorrow. (though i'm not sure Kaze will survive that long.)
On the next round (if yall will still have me), I think i'll roll with something with less options.
Less options = less I can screw up. :(
On the next round (if yall will still have me), I think i'll roll with something with less options.
Less options = less I can screw up. :(
Don't sell yourself short, I think Kaze was one of the most interesting and fun characters any of us came up with. He was also pretty effective given the circumstances, As far as I could tell you only made one real mistake (and one that was pretty damn easy to make at that), the rest was just bad luck.
I can't speak for everyone but I would love to have you back next round, can't wait to see what you come up with ;)
Kaze has been pretty interesting. You are welcome back. I think next round one of the posters offered to run a dragon against all of us. I am sure that since there are about 10 of us he will need more than one dragon though.
Rallick doesn't need to make a fly check, neither does Garinol.
Since the fort check was never ruled on and a failed acrobatics check clearly costs nothing...
I guess I'll wait for the next bout.
Thanks Torinath, I totally over-looked that... I´m editing the post to reflect that for clarity.
The rules certainly could have been written to be more obvious/up front about that... oh well.
Just checking but Garinol is still nauseated, correct?
Yes, he is still.
And I just realized that Lobo never rolled for Nausea duration after he left the cloud.
= until Round 7.
AFAIK Lobo Gris never was Grappled / took Tentacles damage.
Ray didn`t really ever update any of his char`s (re: dmg) so it`s hard to say for sure.
If I run a game, I am going to be a Nazi about making people keep their char up to date.
BTW, when trying to find this info, I realized that the saving throws for the stinking cloud were rather screwed up, basically because people were rolling them on their own turn, which accelerated the number of saves they needed to make by about 1/2 round, potentially letting them escape had they been able to freely act before making save on Rallick`s turn. I think this was compounded by Ray and Gris` decision-making, which didn`t seem to understand either how Cloud Saves work (on Caster`s Init), or the Init system in general (i.e. Lobo Gris just did nothing one entire turn so that he could use Aid Another NEXT Round, when of course he could have used it that very round and had the rest of his actions that round and next free to use.
Something to remember for whoever`s GMing next round... Alot of this stuff can easily get out of whack in a PbP where everything isn`t resolved immediately. One possibility is having the Caster of the Stinking Cloud / whatever be responsible for getting everybody`s saves together after the intial effect, and rolling for those still caught in the cloud. OR, the GM could handle this aspect.
I'm fairly certain Lobo was grappled in round 1. There were a couple edits and it got lost for a while but I had thought we had dealt with it not too long ago. Lobo took 1 round of damage from the tentacles but they failed to maintain the grapple in round 2 and so he got out but ended up being nauseated anyway.
The cloud fort saves were not an issue. People either rolled them once for their first round, or waited until their initiative step to roll. This is one area I would deviate from the caster's initiative rules just for the sake of the flow of a PBP. If we stop the Arena every time my initiative came around we would probably still be in round 2 :)
I apologize, I think the sheer number of people threw my off.. I think I'll stick to easier characters for the PvP.
As for the dragon(s) mentioned, I really do not think I'm up to taking on 10 people. A tournament was proposed as well, so how about the winners face the dragon(s)?
10 players does seem like a lot. It is challenging to keep track of what is going on each round. Waiting several days between turns is kind of a drag too. For PvP, 3 on each side seems like a good number. Anything more than that appears to be cumbersome.
10 players does seem like a lot. It is challenging to keep track of what is going on each round. Waiting several days between turns is kind of a drag too. For PvP, 3 on each side seems like a good number. Anything more than that appears to be cumbersome.I apologize, I think the sheer number of people threw my off.. I think I'll stick to easier characters for the PvP.
As for the dragon(s) mentioned, I really do not think I'm up to taking on 10 people. A tournament was proposed as well, so how about the winners face the dragon(s)?
I agree, it seems that for Arena matches, 2v2 or 3v3 is best.
MoFiddy. I'm pretty sure the Concentration DC is based off of Ryllandaras' grapple CMB specifically, in this case that makes the DC 32. Sorry mate!
Ok, I finally got the map working properly and now I'm a little confused by Lobo and Garinol's turns. From what I remember of their previous positions, I don't think they would have been able to move as far as they did in a single move action (not with their elevations). Were you still counting haste, cause I thought we had decided that it actually wasn't cast in the pre-buff rounds?
I also think that more players take longer to setup and check. I think a 3 vs 3 should be the limit also.
MoFiddy. I'm pretty sure the Concentration DC is based off of Ryllandaras' grapple CMB specifically, in this case that makes the DC 32. Sorry mate!
Ahhh...right. Oh well :(
Ok, I finally got the map working properly and now I'm a little confused by Lobo and Garinol's turns.
I just used the speeds given on their profiles... (40 for Lobo, 60 for Garinol)
Neither one lists Haste in their Buffs... I can`t really say beyond that.They were each maximum distance single Moves AFAIK, simply using the `3d diagonal` movement like Rylandaras did when attacking Bryan.
Then again, I could have mis-counted... 8-/ If you`re sure it`s wrong, feel free to move them back a bit.
Looking at it I think Lobo is fine but fly states that any elevation costs double movement so I don't think Garinol can get that high in 1 move.
I'm also a little curious as to why he is closing with me while still neaseated, but I'm sure you have your reasons ;)
As far as the smoke goes, that is my mistake, I should have paid more attention to the specific wording of the ninja's smoke bombs. My apologies.
Not that it makes any difference since you cleared the Lion's humble AC by a wide margin but I would think attempting to attack the back half of a large creature over it's front would grant partial cover to the targeted squares. It is about the same as using a reach weapon with another creature standing between you and your target, no?
I'm sorry to be such a rules lawyer but this is the perfect forum to do it in. If we are able to come up with rulings for these issues here, I then have an answer when they come up in my own campaign :)
No that`s fine, I don`t know if you mentioned it before,
but this is a pretty good forum to draw out these wonky rules issues.
Yes, I would probably apply Soft Cover if attacking the back square of a creature IF I wasn`t taller and so had unobstructed Line of Effect to their rear quarters. :-)
Re: moving half-speed when Flying upward, the relevant passage is:
*I* took that to mean the 1/2 movement applies to 45* or higher... Since if you don`t read it that way then there is absolutely nothing suggest pure vertical flight takes a 1/2 speed penalty, which makes less sense than <45* flight NOT having a move-speed penalty, IMHO. Note that you technically COULD count any single-square diagonal movement as 45* movement, but I don`t think that is RAI, since that means basically ANY non-straight-line Flight counts as 45* turns (or worse) which is silly... Clearly there should be a provision for 0*-45* movement. Whichever way one thinks the RAI leans toward, it seems pretty clear the RAW is defective here... :-/
Honestly, the reason I moved there in the first place was based on thinking the Collision Fly Check when using Natural Wings applied to ALL Flight including Magical (it doesn`t specify in the Italic sub-section title), which I realized isn`t valid so that didn`t happen... But if he can get there, I guess WHY NOT?, he`s not doing anything better... He has his weapon drawn for AoO purposes, although you can pretty cleary easily evade that - UNLESS... he has Disruptive and Step Up! Mua-ha-ha-ha... ;-)
If Wraith wants, feel free to move him back a few squares or something, I don`t think it matters one way or an other.
@Quandary: Hyundai is completely engulfed in the fog Wraithstrike already ruled how the Smoke Bombs work here.
Although, he does have LoS out of the cloud albeit with a 20% miss chance.
And 'choosing' the intersection for the smoke bomb that produces a friendly fire is NOT 'choosing' a reasonable intersection. If anything you should ask Deverau what intersection he would like to target.
I will change the cloud to a 'reasonable' intersection that will NOT cause a friendly fire.
Rallick you do not have to roll saves for the lion.
EDIT: The intersection I chose for Deverau is W7-X6.