I wanted to see if I could get some advice about this before I submit my item. Would it be a bad idea to submit something that removes certain limitations or disadvantages of a class feature?
One item that I can think of off the top of my head that does this already is the Sniper Goggles; they let rogues make their sneak attacks from any distance instead of the usual limit of 30 feet. However, just because an item that works this way already exists doesn't mean something similar would be a 'Superstar' quality item.
There are a few issues that I'm worried about:
-If it is a class feature change that a lot of people want then the item might be called unoriginal. Would the Sniper Goggles have been a superstar item?
-The developers might say that the class feature limit was there for a reason.
-The item would probably only work for ONE class. I noticed that most previous superstar items would at least be useful for several classes.
Of course I'm going to do my best to make sure that the changes the item makes aren't game breaking, that it is well designed, and that it is properly priced for the benefits that it gives. Am I being too paranoid or am I right to think that this sort of item might have problems making the cut?
Edit: Just to clarify, the item that I'm making actually has nothing to do with the Sniper Goggles item. That was just an example.
Does it remove a limitation or does it do something else which just happens to limit the limitation? fine line I suppose, but re-read the post on seeing-eye things that make you blind...
Mithril armor, the ironwood spell, and the spell mastery feat all remove limitations of some class abilities. These all have limitations to them as well (single spell, expensive material, spell duration), so you can argue precedence. None of these is very superstar in my opinion (maybe that is because they are feat, spell, material :).
Now if the goggles improved your vision, doubled crit ranges, or had a constant target-tracking feature and increased sneak-attack range they would be a better contestant.
Single class items are OK, how many Top 32 require bardic music uses? I think they work best when they inspire someone to play a 'bard' because of them. 'I would only play a paladin if I had X' items would not be your best option IMHO.
Does it remove a limitation or does it do something else which just happens to limit the limitation? fine line I suppose, but re-read the post on seeing-eye things that make you blind...
Mithril armor, the ironwood spell, and the spell mastery feat all remove limitations of some class abilities. These all have limitations to them as well (single spell, expensive material, spell duration), so you can argue precedence. None of these is very superstar in my opinion (maybe that is because they are feat, spell, material :).
Now if the goggles improved your vision, doubled crit ranges, or had a constant target-tracking feature and increased sneak-attack range they would be a better contestant.
Single class items are OK, how many Top 32 require bardic music uses? I think they work best when they inspire someone to play a 'bard' because of them. 'I would only play a paladin if I had X' items would not be your best option IMHO.
Ahh, very good points. I see what you mean about the difference between an item that inspires someone to play a class rather than an item that someone would demand if he was to play a certain class. I'll definitely have to keep that in mind and think about if I want to take the item that I'm working on in a different direction.
My take on this is that class specific wondrous items are allowed to play with or modify class abilities, but outright nullifying penalties is more than I'd personally do. That kind of thing should be the province of feats, prestige classes, archetypes, or higher level class abilites. Using the example of the sniper goggles, personally I don't think they're really 'superstar'. They're not a bad item, per se, but they a) nullify a class ability limit, which would probably be fine by itself except that b) they do so in a way that steps on the toes of the Sniper archetype. For 20,000 gold you basically can out-snipe a sniper. A clear violation of Rule #21. :-)
That's actually an interesting (and by interesting I mean potentially scary) thought; with the APG there are a LOT more class abilities floating around out there between all the character archetypes. Which makes for a lot of potential pitfalls for wondrous items potentially overlapping/duplicating those abilities. I think I need to go double check my entry.
If I can add my feelings - one of my 2 favourite items at the moment have a bit in common with what you suggest - I'd say that I personally went about it this way:
- Don't play with a class you don't know well... the limit you choose to alter might be small and unimportant or much too defining for the class to be removed. (Only thing I can think of off my head is that while letting the duelist prestige class use more weapons with it's special abilities might be awesome, it'll remove some of what defines the class).
- Watch out for the chance of removing a limit that you or anyone (best would be a power-gamer who likes to play this class) can find any way at all to stack with or in another abuse in a way that makes it obviously overpowered.
- Make it not only useful for the class, but interesting for the class. Something that adds flavor and use is cooler than something just neat.
- Watch out for copying some other ability, feat or whatever...
- Personally I found it amusing to play with the things that limited the class in a way I didn't see the obvious need for and see how I could turn something that altedred that limit into an awesome item
- Consider if you want to ENTIRELY REMOVE a limit, it's probably both safer, less overpowered and potentially more interesting to alter or expand the borders of a limit, rather than just take them away blank.
As for the Sniper's Googles, they're a neat item sure, but well, Superstar? I wouldn't sleep well if I didn't feel a lot more awesome about my item than I do about the Sniper's Googles.
Also, I think it's been said several places but contemplate this. Is this the very best and most awesome Superstar-like item you can possibly create? If yes, it's worth the try submitting it (After all there's a certain satisfaction in trying and learning from it, even if it doesn't make the cut)
But that's just my thoughts, in the end only you know your item (well you and friends you use for checking it maybe) and if, at the end of the day, this just feels like the thing to submit, I think it's worth going for it.
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not that this is what the post was about but a quick thought on the Goggles
Sniper Goggles
The simplest solution to the Sniper Goggles stepping on the Sniper's toes is to allow them to incorperate the Deadly range bonus to the goggles within 30 foot property.
the 18 squares max is not game breaking especcialy when your average power gamer would probably skip sniper all together as with all the circumstances needed for a range sneak attack to work your average Two weapon Rogue will out perform a sniper
~Ryan