Skill ranks are applied with the Headband
Question...When you level up after you have the headband on for more than 24 hours, can you place the new skill ranks (x+INT modifier, which is one higher now with the headband)anywhere you want? Or does the extra skill rank automatically go into the skill that the headband assigns you?
Creative Director
|
Skill ranks are applied with the Headband
** spoiler omitted **
Question...When you level up after you have the headband on for more than 24 hours, can you place the new skill ranks (x+INT modifier, which is one higher now with the headband)anywhere you want? Or does the extra skill rank automatically go into the skill that the headband assigns you?
Nope; the skill ranks from the headband you get always apply to the skills granted to the headband. That way, if you take the headband off after you level up a few times and thus lose those skill ranks, you don't have to micromanage stuff.
Skill ranks are applied with the Headband
** spoiler omitted **
Question...When you level up after you have the headband on for more than 24 hours, can you place the new skill ranks (x+INT modifier, which is one higher now with the headband)anywhere you want? Or does the extra skill rank automatically go into the skill that the headband assigns you?
I believe you gain both. The skill ranks linked to the headband increase to your current level. And it looks like having a bonus that lasts more than 1 day gives you more skill ranks, but if you lose the headband, you lose the extra skill ranks.
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
Nope, wrong, sorry. The headband specifically states that the skill ranks from increasing your intelligence are the skill ranks in the skill. Please see James's comments above.
A headband's bonuses are treated as a permanent increase, but are not an actual permanent increase. This means that after 24 hours you get the skill points in the headband, possibly a language (still not addressed by James or other devs, but if so it' a fixed language in the headband), extra spells, boosts to your stat based skill rolls, etc. You most certainly do not double dip and get fixed skill points and non-fixed skill points.
|
You might even get less skill points as possible if the headband grants ranks in a skill where you already have some ranks invested prior to acquiring the headband.
At least this is how I understand it.
My Wizard level 5, 1 rank in Diplomacy - gained 4 'free' ranks in Diplomacy when he got the headband linked to Diplomacy once he had it for 24 hours. Now level 6 he has 6 ranks without spending more skill points - but they will drop to 1 once he loses the headband.
Thod
|
Creative Director
|
A headband's bonuses are treated as a permanent increase, but are not an actual permanent increase. This means that after 24 hours you get the skill points in the headband, possibly a language (still not addressed by James or other devs, but if so it' a fixed language in the headband), extra spells, boosts to your stat based skill rolls, etc. You most certainly do not double dip and get fixed skill points and non-fixed skill points.
It's my understanding that bonus languages apply only at character creation, but it's hardly game breaking to allow a character to learn an additional language when their Intelligence goes up during play.
As for headbands, in my games, I do add a bonus language in to them whenever I give them out, and it works quite well.
Here's another spin on headbands...
If those skills that you get with the headband help you meet a prereq for a prestige class (say Loremaster), what happens when you lose the headband after you've taken a couple of prestige class levels?
You wouldn't lose levels. Would you have to choose what class you are at each level of your prestige classes you lost? Would you then get all the abilities of further levels in those classes?
Hmmmmm...
|
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's another spin on headbands...
If those skills that you get with the headband help you meet a prereq for a prestige class (say Loremaster), what happens when you lose the headband after you've taken a couple of prestige class levels?
You wouldn't lose levels. Would you have to choose what class you are at each level of your prestige classes you lost? Would you then get all the abilities of further levels in those classes?
Hmmmmm...
If you lose the headband, then you'd lose access to all of your class abilities from that prestige class. You'd keep the extra hit dice and BAB progression and save increases, but would gain nothing else until you regained those prerequisites.
A headband's bonuses are treated as a permanent increase, but are not an actual permanent increase. This means that after 24 hours you get the skill points in the headband, possibly a language (still not addressed by James or other devs, but if so it' a fixed language in the headband), extra spells, boosts to your stat based skill rolls, etc. You most certainly do not double dip and get fixed skill points and non-fixed skill points.It's my understanding that bonus languages apply only at character creation, but it's hardly game breaking to allow a character to learn an additional language when their Intelligence goes up during play.
As for headbands, in my games, I do add a bonus language in to them whenever I give them out, and it works quite well.
Yep, I give them out too.
However, there is one circumstance when even per RAW languages would have to be specified in the head band, that is when it is a Headband of Vast Intellect linked to Linguistics. :)
If you lose the headband, then you'd lose access to all of your class abilities from that prestige class. You'd keep the extra hit dice and BAB progression and save increases, but would gain nothing else until you regained those prerequisites.
Aye Chihuahua!!! That is sick! A CLRC7 LRMSTR4 loses his Headband of Vast Intelligence and loses his ability to cast 5th and 6th level spells!?! Oh man.
|
Creative Director
|
Aye Chihuahua!!! That is sick! A CLRC7 LRMSTR4 loses his Headband of Vast Intelligence and loses his ability to cast 5th and 6th level spells!?! Oh man.
If you lose the headband, then you'd lose access to all of your class abilities from that prestige class. You'd keep the extra hit dice and BAB progression and save increases, but would gain nothing else until you regained those prerequisites.
Serves him right for not fulfilling his loremaster prerequisites the proper way with "real" skill ranks!
I've always felt hinky about trying to qualify for a feat or a PrC by using an ability booster. Just doesn't feel right. I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed, but you are kind of asking for something to screw with you.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Serves him right for not fulfilling his loremaster prerequisites the proper way with "real" skill ranks!
loremasters doing so are also burdened with an asterix next to their name in the loremaster archives.
You do get the new rank when you level...
In the skill(s) associated with the band. Think of it like this, the headband has INFINITY skill points, and applies all of them to every skill it has on it. However, you can only access up to your level in any skill.
Let's say you are level 10, you've been wearing it straight for 3 months (you need a bath, and it needs a washing). You level up. You gain one skill point in each skill the band has.
If any of those skills happen to be class skills, you gain +3 bonus to them, because you have ranks in a class skill. If you lose the headband, you lose the +3 bonus (unless you spent ranks on the skill out of your normal skill points).
I know the Intelligence bonus item in 3.5 specifically stated that no skill ranks are gained, but this item doesn't have that restriction, so I'm not actually seeing why others think it works in this same way (i.e. no extra skill ranks).
I believe it was to prevent characters from removing the items, and then putting them back on to gain different skill points. For example, i get the headband ad pick up knowledge "dungeonineering" we head for the forest, so i remove the headband, put it on, and BAM, i have knowledge:nature. Then i learn we're going to fight demons, so i take it off put it on and BAM, knowledge: the plains.
But even for those who think this works like the 3.5 Intelligence bonus item... can you give me an example of how else a creature could gain a "permanent bonus" that could be lost at a later time? One in which it gains skill ranks? And therefore, require them to be noted separately, like the rules say you should do. I understand why players/DMs may not want to do this bookkeeping, but since the rules say this kind of thing can happen, I'm just curious...how?
Sure, easy. Tome of Knowledge +1 to +5. Those are permanent bonuses, so are bonuses gained from Wish Spells, or possibly even reincarnation. Let's say you have an elf that reincarnates as a human (+1 skill point per level), then you get a wish to turn you back into half-elf. Ooops, those skill points go away. Same for the Tome of Knowledge INT boosts.
No, no no. Again, that is not how it works.
You only get the skill points from the increased intellect in the skills the headband has associated with it.
Example : Let's say, for the sake of argument, someone gave your 1st level wizard a headband of +6 int (Perception, Knowledge (Arcana), Craft (Bellybutton Rings)) He has an INT of 16 (+3) so get's 5 skill points per level.
Now, Craft and K(Arcana) are class skills, so at 1st level, 24 hours after the character put the headband on, he's have 1 rank each in the 3 skills. He'd get a +3 bonus for class skills to K(Arcana) and Craft(BB rings). He spends his 5 class skill points on Spellcraft, Stealth, Sense Motive, Climb, and Profession (Wizard).
He levels up to second level. He get's another 5 skill points for his class (+3 from INT, 2 from class), and puts those in the exact same five skills. The 3 skill points from the headband kick in and he has 2 ranks in K(Arcana), Craft(BB Rings) and Perception.
Same for level 3, and so on, for as long as he has the band. If he takes the band off, he loses all the ranks in K(Arcana), Craft(BBrings) and Perception, until he wears the band again for 24 hours.
heh, could be interesting..
A headband of int +2 (linguistics) would grant a number of additional languages equal to the level of character, unless i missed a rule to the contrary..
:)
-S
heh, could be interesting..
A headband of int +2 (linguistics) would grant a number of additional languages equal to the level of character, unless i missed a rule to the contrary..
:)
-S
Yep, you got it right. And the GM should assign those languages (in order of being granted) from level 1 to 20.
If you look up the thread, you'll see that as a GM call, the int bonus could also confer a language in and of itself. Both myself and James Jacobs do that in our games without any harm.
Craft (Bellybutton Rings)
I think that is in 4.0. Am I wrong? That system is bass-ackwards!
I agree with everything in your example. I knew how most of this worked already, and thanks to you, I will hopefully remember the training bonus for gaining ranks in a class skill, should it come up.What I don't see is why the headband doesn't ALSO provide extra skill points from the higher Intelligence bonus under these two conditions?: 1) the headband is worn for more than 24 hrs and 2) these extra skill points are lost when the headband is removed (or the magic is otherwise negated).
I know these extra skill points may seem excessive to some, but I don't see anything in the description of the headband or the "permanent bonus" section that says you do not get them. If anyone can point out where it says this doesn't work, it would be appreciated.
And I'm not particularly for or against this. I see where it says...
The simple answer is, the Headband does grant extra skill points, but it tells you where you have to put them. The description says:
A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice
The bolded part lets you know that this is when the Int increase is no longer temporary, and you get the skill points. The prior sentence tells you that you must put them in the specified skill(s).
The Headband only comes in +2, +4 or +6. There's no +1 available.
As for an "actual explanation," you'll just have to take the word of the Creative Director for that. It's the second post in this thread. I'm not sure how else we can disambiguate that for you.
Items in the DMG always have an even numbered bonus, for ability scores. If your DM chooses to vary from that then your DM gets to make up the rule for it.
it seems you are asking what to do when you level up with one of these headbands.
for example:
headband of Int +2(Knowledge Arcana).
This headband gives you 1 rank of Knowledge Arcana per level you have achieved. If you are 20th level you get 20. If you are 1st level you get 1.
If you get it at level 1 and level up to level 2, then you gain 1 rank in Knowledge Arcana.
A headband of Int +4 (spellcraft, craft (basket weaving)
would grant you two ranks for each level you have: one rank in spell craft and one in basket weaving.
Each time you level up you gain a rank in each one.
If you remove the headband then the ranks immediately disappear. When you put it back on for 24 hours then the ranks reappear.
There are no "extra" or "unaccounted for" skill points. Every skill point gained is put into the skill(s) of the headband.
odd numbered bonuses aren't a house rule.
But- how to treat an odd numbered intelligence bonus would be.
For example:
A +1 Int headband does not in and of itself grant a skill point. However, if tacked onto a PC with 13 intelligence suddenly they gain a skill point.
if they then at 8th level (for example) toss a point into Int- suddenly the headband isn't granting a skill point again.
*how* your DM treats it isn't as important as them realizing there is an issue and settling out how to do it. (i'd say by giving the headband a skill to put that point to, that disappears if the headband doesn't grant a total that is even.. but that still leaves you with the oddity of leveling up and losing one skill to gain actual ranks in potentially another skill).
Houserule to have an odd one? No- but you will have to houserule how to handle it with the int stuff.
-S
The people in my group have never restricted the enhancement bonuses of "ability-score-increasing" magic items to only being even numbered bonuses. I will continue to allow +1 ability score magic items in my game, but I am curious if this is RAW or a house rule?
I always thought it was to avoid the weird situation where a Headband of Intellect +1 has no noticeable effect on half the people who wear it (i.e. people with even Int scores).
There's nothing RAW against a +1 headband of intellect.
However, it's also a custom magic item, as it doesn't exist in the magic item list. The rules are there to allow custom items, if the GM wishes to use them, but items created using those rules require GM permission to use. So in other words, the GM would have to decide how they work. For consistencies sake, the headband should have skills associated with it equal to (Bonus DIV 2) + (Bonus MOD 2). That is, Integer Division and Modular Division. So, a +3 INT item should have (3 DIV 2) + (3 MOD 2) = (1) + (1) = 2. It should also specify the order it grants the skills, since an even INT person wearing it wouldn't get the second skill.
Note that Modulo Division is basically taking the remainder. So when doing (N MOD 2) you'll always either get 0 or 1 (even = 0, odd = 1).