a simple question i think. can animals wear armor?
a simple question i think. can animals wear armor?
barding
Armor for Unusual Creatures
Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures Size Humanoid Nonhumanoid
Cost Weight Cost Weight
Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
Small ×1 ×1/2 ×2 ×1/2
Medium ×1 ×1 ×2 ×1
Large ×2 ×2 ×4 ×2
Huge ×4 ×5 ×8 ×5
Gargantuan ×8 ×8 ×16 ×8
Colossal ×16 ×12 ×32 ×12
*Divide armor bonus by 2.
Armor and shields for unusually big creatures, unusually little creatures, and nonhumanoid creatures (such as horses) have different costs and weights from those given on Table: Armor and Shields. Refer to the appropriate line on Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures and apply the multipliers to cost and weight for the armor type in question.
non humanoid column.
Animals are not proficient with armor. If you want the animal to be able to attack effectively you need to get it the armor proficiency as a feat if its an animal companion. You cannot simply get it heavy armor proficiency either... you have to get light, medium, and heavy armor proficiency in order.
Your best bet is to get your critter masterwork studded leather armor. The animal would normally suffer a -1 to attacks, strength&dex based skills, but the masterwork quality brings the penalty down to -0.
Your best bet is to get your critter masterwork studded leather armor. The animal would normally suffer a -1 to attacks, strength&dex based skills, but the masterwork quality brings the penalty down to -0.
Agreed, if you want to still keep it attacking. If you just want your horse to have a little survivability while you deliver the pain, I'd say go for breastplate or something.
And later on, mithral chain shirt or full plate.
There was a thread that hashed out what proficiencies animals should get.
I think it was left with the Combat Training giving light armor proficiency, or that you need to get a specific horse that swaps out the feats gained from HD for proficiency feats.
Since proficiencies are one of those things that can be gained in a method other than just feats (such as picking up a class), I could see it being one of those applications of tricks that the Handle Animal skill would allow when it says "but not limited to the follow list".
As a DM I wouldn't have a problem with a player spending tricks to teach the animal how to use armors.
|
I was more interested in how it would apply in PFS to invincibly armored riding dogs taking their full attack bonus on bites with a free trip attempt on hits also at full bonus.
Unless it is clearly spelled out in the rules that the dog needs the armor proficiency common sense doesn't help much in this instance.
|
|
I get what you are saying. I agree that you are right. What I wanted was for you to show me where to point in the core book to support the point so that I am not making claims I can't back up should it come up in organized play.
I see this:
Normal: A character who is wearing armor with which he is not proficient applies its armor check penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving.
Then there is the mount section of the Cavalier entry which backs up the point:
The mount is always considered combat trained and begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat.
Neither the paladin's mount nor the druid's animal companion get an armor proficiency for free so that is clear enough to point to as an example that they have to buy in with feats or buy armor with no ACP as you suggest above if they don't want to take a penalty to attacks.
I get what you are saying. I agree that you are right. What I wanted was for you to show me where to point in the core book to support the point so that I am not making claims I can't back up should it come up in organized play.
I see this:
Normal: A character who is wearing armor with which he is not proficient applies its armor check penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving.
I'm still not following the potential loophole. Is the argument that an animal isn't a "character" and therefore doesn't have to follow rules that apply to characters? I'm pretty sure that an animal would fall under the heading of "NPC" (i.e. a character). If not, then that opens a huge can of worms (e.g. all of the rules in the "Getting Started" chapter refer to "characters").
|
|
I'm not saying it was ever a loophole. More that it just hadn't occurred to me to check for armor proficiency on mounts in the past. It isn't something I've had come up a lot.
I've seen Level 1 riding dog mounts with barding for AC 19 (I mistakenly remembered it as being higher when I initially posted) and while I made sure that ACP was applied to skills I completely forgot as the GM to check for proficiency in regards to animals. It might be that he had up to medium proficiency (cavalier with a mount feat to burn) and there was never an issue. I don't recall the specific details.
Anyway- I wasn't asking because of a particular character. More for myself so I was clear on the rules in the future should it ever come up.
The thread I was talking about actually has people specifically asking for an official response because of society play.
The thread is here.
Some relevant quotes if you don't want to sift through that whole thread:
For now, though, it's safe to assume that a mount that's trained for war gets Light Armor proficiency for free, but needs to spend feats to get better armor. This does mean that most normal horses will never be able to get heavy armor training, and I'm kind of okay with that.
Would this ruling apply to Pathfinder Society characters as well?Does now. Josh refers all rules questions to the rules forums. You just need to succeed on the Combat Training animal handling roll to get them trained.
Feats are ALWAYS swap outable. You should be able to buy "specialty" horses with unusual feats anyway; maybe one with Toughness and Lightning Reflexes. Swapping out the feats is a cool way to model different horse breeds, in fact.
Can the bonus feat RUN be swapped out?Bonus feats cannot be swapped out at all. They're hardwired into a creature's DNA.
You can click the FAQ button on the posts in that thread, but this is as official as you are going to get for now I think.
*Edit*
Scratch that! I checked the FAQ and they actually answered it fairly recently.
No, using Handle Animal to train an animal, or mount, in this way does not grant it a free bonus feat. It is not unreasonable, however to assume that an animal specifically designed to be ridden (such as a horse or dog) could be purchased with Light Armor Proficiency as one of its feats (swapping out Endurance or Skill Focus respectively) for the same cost. (JMB, 10/21/10)
–Jason Bulmahn (10/21/10)
Ah...that's a good point. It never occurred to me that a normal horse can never get Heavy Armor Proficiency if a feat is required, even though that seems like the sort of thing a knight might have on his horse.
Okay, now I'm understanding the issue. :-)
EDIT --> And here's the confusing line, in the Animal description: "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war."
In this case, they are saying it means that the feats gained from HD (training) would need to be chosen for access to proficiency.
It doesn't mean a Knight won't have full or half plate barding on his horse. It just means he's likely not having his horse make attacks while wearing that barding.
The Cavalier could potentially though, as he gets a lot of feats to build up that proficiency if needed.