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We started Kingmaker this last weekend and it's been fun thus far.
I have a couple questions regarding XP.
1) When XP is listed for a given monster is that XP for the total party or per character?
2) When XP is listed for a quest, exploration, or other objective is that meant to be for the total party or per character?
How realistic is the mod's expectation that the party be near level four when approaching the Stag Lord's fort? Right now the party is barely level two and they're a good chunk through the Greenbelt.
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We started Kingmaker this last weekend and it's been fun thus far.
I have a couple questions regarding XP.
1) When XP is listed for a given monster is that XP for the total party or per character?
2) When XP is listed for a quest, exploration, or other objective is that meant to be for the total party or per character?
How realistic is the mod's expectation that the party be near level four when approaching the Stag Lord's fort? Right now the party is barely level two and they're a good chunk through the Greenbelt.
both 1 and 2 are the amounts for the group as a whole. Here are some things I have seen cause issues in kingmaker moreso than other APs:
* How many PCs are in your group? The APs are built for 4 PCs, if you have more, you may need to add more baddies to get the same XP per PC.
* Are you giving the group the 400 XP for each quest they complete?
* are you giving the group the 100 XP for each hex they explore?
* are you rolling for random encounters at least twice per hex? (once upon entering the hex and once if they end up sleeping in it, which they have to do at exploring speed)
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We started Kingmaker this last weekend and it's been fun thus far.
I have a couple questions regarding XP.
1) When XP is listed for a given monster is that XP for the total party or per character?
2) When XP is listed for a quest, exploration, or other objective is that meant to be for the total party or per character?
How realistic is the mod's expectation that the party be near level four when approaching the Stag Lord's fort? Right now the party is barely level two and they're a good chunk through the Greenbelt.
That is the amount for the group.
* How many PCs are in your group?
* Are you giving the group the 400 XP for each quest they complete?
* are you giving the group the 100 XP for each hex they explore?
* are you rolling for random encounters at least twice per hex? (once upon entering the hex and once if they end up sleeping in it, which they have to do at exploring speed)
It's currently a four person party. So exploring each hex is only worth 25 XP correct?
They are getting the XP for quests and exploration. They are getting random encounters too but at a rate of 5% and 15% they've only had a half a dozen or so random encounters. Of those only a couple have been worth a noticeable amount of XP.
Should they be progressing at the 'medium' xp rate?
Creative Director
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ALL XP awards in our products should be divided by the number of players. And unless otherwise indicated, all of our adventures assume the Medium advancement track.
The GM can, of course, adjust these as he/she wishes to fit their group's favored style of play, but as written, the adventure paths and modules assume a group of four players who advance on the Medium XP track and that all XP awards are divided by 4 (the number of players in the game).
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ALL XP awards in our products should be divided by the number of players. And unless otherwise indicated, all of our adventures assume the Medium advancement track.
The GM can, of course, adjust these as he/she wishes to fit their group's favored style of play, but as written, the adventure paths and modules assume a group of four players who advance on the Medium XP track and that all XP awards are divided by 4 (the number of players in the game).
Wow, Mr. Jacobs himself posted in my thread! I'm all a fluster.
Should I reward the party for exploring 'extra thoroughly' in the hopes of finding trouble/a random encounter?
Should I give them a higher chance of finding a random encounter? Should I do anything to discourage this behavior?
I'm well aware of the implications this should make on the climax with the Stag Lord and am making the appropriate adjustments. By now the bandit lord is well aware of the pesky adventures interfering with his operations.
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Should I reward the party for exploring 'extra thoroughly' in the hopes of finding trouble/a random encounter?
Should I give them a higher chance of finding a random encounter? Should I do anything to discourage this behavior?
If they are searching extra thoroughly, then they are taking twice as long, and there should be two checks for the night encounter
There is ample xp in the adventure as it's written. Remember that PCs will only be 3rd level when they face the Stag Lord. The xp from the capstone encounter is what will push them into level 4.
There are already rules for "extra thorough": you get a 15% chance. Merely walking through gets you 5%. So let's say the party is all-mounted (thus moves at 40 or better), and you want to explore a forest or hill hex:
5% upon entering
15% first day exploring
15% first night sleeping
15% second day exploring
15% second night sleeping (unless they exhaust their horses to make a midnight dash back to Oleg's)
rinse & repeat with next hex; there's lots!
Doing the maths, that gives you a 50.41% chance of getting at least one random encounter every time they choose to map out the most common kind of hexes in the campaign. I personally started instituting Survival checks to bring down the nighttime encounter rate, since it's so high by default.
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And as Tem said, the Stag Lord's Fort expects you to be level three when you assault it, not four.
My group just finished up Stolen Lands last night. It actually took two sessions to complete the Stag Lord encounter. I will avoid a spoiler and say that the group did not go at it in the best way they could have. The group was 4th level and consisted of a conjurer, a cavalier, a summoner and a druid. This is basically a 4-pc group that consists of at least 7 combatants at any given time. They scoured every hex they could, worked through every quest they could and squeezed out enough xp's that they were 4th level.
It was not an easy fight. Do not worry about the amount of xp's that are available. There are plenty to be had and if your group is 4th level, the fight is still challenging if ran correctly.
I'm personally not a huge fan of too many random encouters, since it takes time out of advancing the plot and is mostly "filler" in my opinion. I've lowered the chances for random encounters in our game and have instead been handing out XP rewards for roleplaying things like diplomacy, personal relationships, particularly cool one-liners delivered during combat, extra-good ideas and tactics, and that sort of thing. It requires a particular style of group, so might not work for your players, and also means you need to pay more attention to where they are XP-wise so you can deliver appropriate rewards, but I feel that XP gained in this way (rather than random fighting) is more conducive to an immersive campaign.
That said, there certainly can be opportunities to use random encounters in fun and interesting ways, so I don't cut them out completely.
If you don't think they've gotten enough XP or are behind in some way, go ahead and give them opportunities to earn more.
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I too have toned down the random encounters. I still have the players roll every time the enter a hex or spend a night. Just to let them think something is going to happen. The first three random encounters they rolled were a werewolf, giant centipede, and a werewolf. Since then they have encountered two more werewolves and a couple of wild animals. The werewolf theme will go well with the first kingdom event in Rivers Run Red. Right now they think there is a plague of them and they need to find the one that started it all. :)
I keep track of their experience total and tell them when they have enough to level. This allows me to add in a few points here and there if I think they need to level before the next set encounter.
I was wondering whether I'm meant to award xp for creatures that the PCs "defeated" without fighting or much of a challenge, such as the bandits' horses or a random encounter with an elk.
In the initial encounter with the bandits the horses, which weren't war trained didn't really participate in the bandits' favor; they mostly panicked uselessly or simply padded around uncertainly as their riders fell like flies.
Similarly, the party's run-in with a herd of elk saw one of them being shot down with arrows at range while it was merely bugling to alert its herd mates of potential predators in the area; as elk are wont to do.
Should the PCs receive xp for such unchalenging victories?
I was wondering whether I'm meant to award xp for creatures that the PCs "defeated" without fighting or much of a challenge, such as the bandits' horses or a random encounter with an elk.
In the initial encounter with the bandits the horses, which weren't war trained didn't really participate in the bandits' favor; they mostly panicked uselessly or simply padded around uncertainly as their riders fell like flies.
Similarly, the party's run-in with a herd of elk saw one of them being shot down with arrows at range while it was merely bugling to alert its herd mates of potential predators in the area; as elk are wont to do.
Should the PCs receive xp for such unchalenging victories?
I would rule that no. You get xp for defeating monsters - not killing. Defeating has an element of overcoming, subduing, winning (as in, a challenge). In fact, the dictionary definition is:
to overcome in a contest, election, battle, etc.; prevail over; vanquish
You can't really "prevail" over a cowering, simpering creature. If the creature never put up a fight, there was never a contest to be overcome.
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You can't really "prevail" over a cowering, simpering creature. If the creature never put up a fight, there was never a contest to be overcome.
I disagree. Look at how you get exp for traps. Just noticing the trap and stepping around it gives you exp for it. Additionally, look at Tyg-Titter-Tut and Perlivash. Befriending these two gives you exp the same as if you had defeated them in combat.
This kind of think that you have to whoop on something with your sword in order to get exp and advance is the kind of thing that has given D&D/Pathfinder a certain reputation. This reputation, I might add, is being hard-fought to be overcome (especially with APs like Kingmaker).
Now, that being said, giving exp for horses I do not believe is what is intended--nor is getting exp for seeing an elk, waving at it, then going your separate ways. But to illustrate my point: I just gave my PCs full experience for a full clear of the Sootscale kobold lair, even though the only kobold they killed was Tartuk (having marched in with Mikmek and the statue).
So actually to Ambrus’ specific question, I do agree that there should be no exp for the elk or horses, but this is more to the general issue of exp for non-combat.
I disagree. Look at how you get exp for traps. Just noticing the trap and stepping around it gives you exp for it. Additionally, look at Tyg-Titter-Tut and Perlivash. Befriending these two gives you exp the same as if you had defeated them in combat.
You and I are in total agreement, actually. A trap is a challenge to be overcome - either by noticing and avoiding it, not noticing it and being hit by it (and surviving), or by noticing and disabling it. Any of these are XP worthy encounters with the trap.
If you were to never notice the trap and never happened to run into it, however, you never encountered the challenge, and thus never overcame it.
Perlivash and Tyg are the same thing. They're not really monsters to be defeated, however, as much as they are a challenge to be overcome. They can, however, become monsters to be defeated, if you anger them or attack them.
It would be completely different, though, if when the PCs come across Tyg and Perlivash, they are cowering and never put up a challenge. No pranks. No RP situation - they're just in the middle of a patch of grass, simpering. Would you grant the PCs XP for killing them then?
I certainly wouldn't.