RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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So, in my Kingmaker game, one of the PCs, peeved at another PC for their bloodlust, asked the druid of the party to offer to enchant the other PC's weapon, but add the merciful quality to it. Naturally, when the PC found out what they did to his weapon, he was pissed.
Now, the druid had lead that PC into believing that the merciful quality can only be deactivated through a ritual (instead of a simple command). Out of character, the question of whether or not someone could coup de grace with an activated merciful weapon came up: the druid's player reasoned that, since it was a Fort save and not damage, you could make a coup de grace with the quality still active.
So, opinions? I'm inclined to either way, and it's not like the PC doesn't have backup weapons in case he REALLY wanted to murder someone.
Well non-lethal damage is converted to lethal damage if they're unconscious. But, barring that i'd say no, RAI.
There's simply no RAW ruling.
"Rules as Intended"
I'd say that barring the dev's coming here and telling us what the actual intention was (which happens), it's impossible to determine what was intended.
A more subjective view is Rules As Interpreted, IMO.
That's a sap.
I like it.
Well non-lethal damage is converted to lethal damage if they're unconscious. But, barring that i'd say no, RAI.
-i think thats only if they're beaten unconscious: when you sap someone that's taking a nap you still only knock them out.
There's simply no RAW ruling.
-Raw they have to make the fort save or die. It says if they take damage, it doesn't specify by type. I would probably rule it the same way though, you wind up unconscious rather than dead.
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Well non-lethal damage is converted to lethal damage if they're unconscious.
It takes more than simply being unconscious. Non-lethal damage is only converted to lethal damage when the total amount of non-lethal damage done to a creature exceeds their maximum hit point total. Additional damage from that point on becomes lethal.
So when the amount of non-lethal damage you've taken exceeds your current hit point total you fall unconscious. Once it exceeds your maximum hit point total, you start getting beaten to death with lethal damage.
That being said, there isn't any specific rule for performing a coup de grace with non-lethal damage (or any specific rule preventing it). I don't see why you couldn't play the rule straight if you want a chance at killing the person (i.e. bash them so hard on the temple with a sap that they potentially die). Or you could easily change the "or die" to "or fall unconscious for an hour" or something to that effect.
That just came up with us last night.
We bopped a helpless kobold on the head with a sap in an attempt to take him captive. We couped him to be sure, not then knowing exactly what that would do. Saps can crit, dealing crit non-lethal damage (correct me if I'm wrong), so it was just math to figure out what happened.
In this case total damage was 10 points of non-lethal damage (from the 1d6+2 twice, critical hit with a sap).
The Kobold had one hit point, but max hit points of 4. non-lethal counts max first to determine what spills over into regular damage. So, 4-10= 6 points of lethal damage. So, he had 1 hit point left, and took a total of 4 points non-lethal and 6 points regular, meaning that after we bopped him, the kobold ended up with 4 points of non-lethal damage and -5 hit points. He wasn't dead from the damage as his con was higher than 5. But he still had to make the save. The fort save DC is 10 + damage. The judgment was made that this referred to regular damage, not non-lethal (since by definition non-lethal damage is 'not real damage' and specifically non-lethal damage is not damage that can kill you). So the damage he took for the purpose of determining his fort save DC was 6, so his fort save DC was 16.
He made the roll. He was still alive, but he was still -5 hp so was dying. He had to make a stablilisation check on his turn, which he failed and lost a HP, but his con was still higher than 6 so he was still alive. Our cleric stabilized him on her next turn, and that got him out of danger. We later healed and rehabilitated him, converted him to Erastil, and now he's living a productive life as our follower.
The rule works great as it describes very well situations like the boxer who accidentally kills his opponent in the ring, or like this case when you mean to knock someone out but hit them too hard. The tension of not knowing if the kobold would live of die really have that 'don't know your own strength' "What have I done?!" feel. It was Awesome!
So, in my Kingmaker game, one of the PCs, peeved at another PC for their bloodlust, asked the druid of the party to offer to enchant the other PC's weapon, but add the merciful quality to it. Naturally, when the PC found out what they did to his weapon, he was pissed.
Now, the druid had lead that PC into believing that the merciful quality can only be deactivated through a ritual (instead of a simple command). Out of character, the question of whether or not someone could coup de grace with an activated merciful weapon came up: the druid's player reasoned that, since it was a Fort save and not damage, you could make a coup de grace with the quality still active.
So, opinions? I'm inclined to either way, and it's not like the PC doesn't have backup weapons in case he REALLY wanted to murder someone.
The weapon probably represented a significant amount of gold investment though. This is a great RP opportunity though.
I would not allow the nonlethal damage to do a coup de grace until it at least doubled the max HP of the victim. I think a previous poster explained it better. If the player is upset IRL then I would allow him to get rid of the weapon, and you can get him a replacement without him paying for it.