However all decisions about spells are made when the spell is cast as per the magic section.
Since the feat gives you a choice with the spell that should be made when the spell is cast -- just like all other decisions (where the spell lands, who is or isn't the target, what area to cover, what monster to get, so on and so on).
Actually, come to think of it, I played in a 3.5 game where a character had the Sculpt Spell metamagic feat, and we always played that you could choose the shape at casting time. Objection withdrawn. ;-)
Actually, come to think of it, I played in a 3.5 game where a character had the Sculpt Spell metamagic feat, and we always played that you could choose the shape at casting time. Objection withdrawn. ;-)However all decisions about spells are made when the spell is cast as per the magic section.
Since the feat gives you a choice with the spell that should be made when the spell is cast -- just like all other decisions (where the spell lands, who is or isn't the target, what area to cover, what monster to get, so on and so on).
My main reason for pushing this idea (beyond the fact my ego won't let me accept I'm wrong that easily ;D) is the fact that for the +1 in spell level -- it had better do more than just change and mix energy types when I memorize it.
It's the options the feat provides that makes it worth the +1 to me -- without those options -- then yes it would be worthless to me (except on a metamagic rod).
I believe that when you take the Elemental Spell feat, you must "choose one energy type: Acid, cold, electricity or fire". You may replace a spell's normal damage with that energy type, blah blah blah
Then we look at the special: you can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you must choose a different energy type.
If the feat works as you say....why on earth would you take it more than once?
I believe that when you take the Elemental Spell feat, you must "choose one energy type: Acid, cold, electricity or fire". You may replace a spell's normal damage with that energy type, blah blah blah
Then we look at the special: you can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you must choose a different energy type.
If the feat works as you say....why on earth would you take it more than once?
This part is easy.
I take it once for say... cold.
Now I prepare fireball(elemental spell:cold).
When I cast that fireball I can choose cold, fire, or a mixture.
If I wanted a different element too I need another feat and another spell level so it would be 5th level fireball(elemental spell: cold, elemental spell:Acid) and I would have more choices (acid, cold, fire, acid/fire, acid/cold,cold/fire, acid/cold/fire to be exact on my choices).
So with two elemental spell feats (acid and cold for this example) I could:
Prepare a normal fireball.
Prepare a fireball in a fourth level slot with either acid or cold elemental spell feat.
Prepare a fireball in a fifth level slot with both acid and cold elemental spell metamagic feats.
I believe that when you take the Elemental Spell feat, you must "choose one energy type: Acid, cold, electricity or fire". You may replace a spell's normal damage with that energy type, blah blah blah
Then we look at the special: you can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you must choose a different energy type.
If the feat works as you say....why on earth would you take it more than once?
This part is easy.
I take it once for say... cold.
Now I prepare fireball(elemental spell:cold).
When I cast that fireball I can choose cold, fire, or a mixture.
If I wanted a different element too I need another feat and another spell level so it would be 5th level fireball(elemental spell: cold, elemental spell:Acid) and I would have more choices (acid, cold, fire, acid/fire, acid/cold,cold/fire, acid/cold/fire to be exact on my choices).
So with two elemental spell feats (acid and cold for this example) I could:
Prepare a normal fireball.
Prepare a fireball in a fourth level slot with either acid or cold elemental spell feat.
Prepare a fireball in a fifth level slot with both acid and cold elemental spell metamagic feats.
Gotcha, from your previous posts I thought you were saying that you could choose whichever of the four you wanted when you casted the spell. So you'd only have to take the feat once. For example: if I had elemental spell, as a level 4 spell I could make the fireball either fire/cold/acid/electric.
I thought the feat worked as you listed in the quote, but your previous entries (for some reason) made me think I was reading it wrong.
No problem, the internet -- dispite all it's glory -- sucks at context delivery.
Cosmopolitan.
Really? It nets two whole skill points! Skill Focus adds 3, then total of 6 past ten base rank. All of the other skill boosters add 4 (+2 to each of two skills) and then 8 past ten base ranks...
Yes they are languages, but if you are *that* starved for languages, burn the pittance of skill points.
I have a hard time justifying this as a Feat. It smells like a Trait to me...
GNOME
This was the first feat my wizard took after the APG came out. Gain Perception and Sense Motive as class skills plus I picked up a couple of human languages from Golarion. All total it is equal to 8 skill points for one feat and that beats all the other +skill feats out there. Granted it is a flavor based feat, but there are certainly worse feats out there.
I plan on taking Elemental Spell for my Council of Thieves Half-Orc Draconic Sorceress. (She's taking the Half-Orc favored class bonus to fire damage spells.)
Not that there aren't enough cool fire spells out there already...but there are situations where being able to throw an elemental fire Magic Missile could come in handy.
Or, for that matter, an elemental fire, extended duration Acid Arrow. (At 9th level, the spell does 2d4+6 damage for 8 rounds. Sure, anything with decent Resist Energy [fire] laughs at it. But it's probably a pretty gruesome death...
My Fey bloodline Enchanter in Legacy of Fire took Elemental Spell at 5th level just to be able to cast Burning Hands (and later Scorching Ray) as Cold spells. It seems like a prudent option to have in that adventure path.
In general, most spells with MetaMagic are less effective than a spell of the same level. The point is (at least for Sorcerers) is they offer flexibility you're losing from the spell selection issues.
In general, most spells with MetaMagic are less effective than a spell of the same level. The point is (at least for Sorcerers) is they offer flexibility you're losing from the spell selection issues.
Well said.
I'm a big fan of metamagic for spontaneous casters, not so much for prepared casters. The prepared caster can usually put a better spell in the slot simply by using a higher level spell; his wide selection of spells at each level allows him to do this. The spontaneous caster doesn't have the wider variety of spells to choose from; thus, by using metamagic he can in essence expand his spells known so that he can have higher level versions of other spells he has.
Especially with regard to his highest level spells. He might have one or two spells of his highest level, but have 6 to 8 castings of his highest level spell slots. Often times, depending on the spells he has, he might never want to cast those one or two spells that often each day. (For instance, how many castings of Mind Blank does a sorcerer need to make each day?) Metamagic lets him make use of those spell slots in a more efficient way.
Even Elemental Spell in the hands of a sorcerer can be rather powerful. Say a high level sorcerer has 10 spells that do damage and that can be effected by his metamagic feat of Elemental Spell (cold). With one feat hes just added ten spells known to his list. And since he can add the metamagic on the fly, he doesn't burn a higher level spell slot unless its justified. And elemental spell can often have results that will exceed the level adjustment; if used to make a spell do a damage type to which the target is vulnerable, he has just increased its damage by 50% and this is roughly equivalent to the effect of Empower spell but at the cost of only one spell level bump instead of 2. (And for an Arcane Bloodline sorcerer, he also gets the boost to the save DC of +1 due to his bloodline power.)
The one metamagic feat I really miss from 3.5 for a Sorcerer is sculpt spell. For a one level adjustment you could alter the type of area of an area spell, i.e. turn a line into a cone, turn a cone into a ball, etc.. That level of flexibility allowed a sorcerer to basically treat all his area effect spells as 4 different spells each instead of 1. (And it had some lovely creative uses, such as turning the 10' Grease spell into a 60' line.)
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I would think spell mastery is not terribly useful as it wastes a feat so you can cast one single spell each and every day without your spellbook. Now how many feats does a wizard need if he has to have this for all his spells. What really is the point if they get your spellbook they could probably have killed you as well.Not that the feat is really any good, but you get 3 spells, not just one.um... not 1...not 3... 1 per point of Int Mod Bonus.
So if you have an Int of 36 then you get 13 spells.
Yeah yeah, 3.5 is still taking up too much space in my overcrowded memory banks. Sue me.
Ok so what you are saying is when you memorize the spell you have to decide then with the elemental spell what the energy mixture is?
Instead of doing it like say -- resist energy where you choose when you cast?
Yes. Metamagic spells take sorcerers extra time, and wizards have to memorize them in advance.
Wizards and Divine Spellcasters: Wizards and divine spellcasters must prepare their spells in advance. During preparation, the character chooses which spells to prepare with metamagic feats (and thus which ones take up higher-level spell slots than normal).
Sorcerers and Bards: Sorcerers and bards choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. Because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell's normal casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.) The only exception is for spells modified by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat, which can be cast as normal using the feat.
Elemental Spell really doesn't give you enough to be worth one spell slot higher when you can just take Energy Substitution a 3.5 feat that did the same thing except for allowing you to mix the damage types, and Energy Substitution was +0 to spell level. I know for those that play pure pathfinder, the option is not available. I for one would rather have my fireball, acidball, electricball or coldball be a 3rd level spell slot and not have to use a 4th level slot just to change the damage type.
Personally, I find Fleet useless. You want me to use a precious feat to...add 5 to my move speed? You insult me sir.
I like fleet, though my group allows dwarves to bennefit since slow and steady prevents it from slowing them. Not sure how those are supposed to interact though. Its also great on halfling rogues and gnome wizards. Getting left behind is terrible.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Personally, I find Fleet useless. You want me to use a precious feat to...add 5 to my move speed? You insult me sir.I like fleet, though my group allows dwarves to bennefit since slow and steady prevents it from slowing them. Not sure how those are supposed to interact though. Its also great on halfling rogues and gnome wizards. Getting left behind is terrible.
Your movement is now 25 instead of 20, you still get left behind, just takes longer ;-)
Elemental Spell really doesn't give you enough to be worth one spell slot higher when you can just take Energy Substitution a 3.5 feat that did the same thing except for allowing you to mix the damage types, and Energy Substitution was +0 to spell level. I know for those that play pure pathfinder, the option is not available. I for one would rather have my fireball, acidball, electricball or coldball be a 3rd level spell slot and not have to use a 4th level slot just to change the damage type.
Elemental spell as written applies to any spell that does hit point damage. Energy Substitution applies only to spells that do elemental damage.
If you have a spell(s) that blast with negative energy, but end up fighting undead Elemental Spell can help you, but Energy Substitution can not.
Elemental Spell really doesn't give you enough to be worth one spell slot higher when you can just take Energy Substitution a 3.5 feat that did the same thing except for allowing you to mix the damage types, and Energy Substitution was +0 to spell level. I know for those that play pure pathfinder, the option is not available. I for one would rather have my fireball, acidball, electricball or coldball be a 3rd level spell slot and not have to use a 4th level slot just to change the damage type.Elemental spell as written applies to any spell that does hit point damage. Energy Substitution applies only to spells that do elemental damage.
If you have a spell(s) that blast with negative energy, but end up fighting undead Elemental Spell can help you, but Energy Substitution can not.
all that does is make the feat more rounded as to which spells can benefit from it, it really shouldn't change the spell level.
Your movement is now 25 instead of 20, you still get left behind, just takes longer ;-)Personally, I find Fleet useless. You want me to use a precious feat to...add 5 to my move speed? You insult me sir.I like fleet, though my group allows dwarves to bennefit since slow and steady prevents it from slowing them. Not sure how those are supposed to interact though. Its also great on halfling rogues and gnome wizards. Getting left behind is terrible.
True, but a 25% increase in speed beats a 17% increase in speed. If you really want the extra speed, then you take a level of barbarian ...
Your movement is now 25 instead of 20, you still get left behind, just takes longer ;-)Personally, I find Fleet useless. You want me to use a precious feat to...add 5 to my move speed? You insult me sir.I like fleet, though my group allows dwarves to bennefit since slow and steady prevents it from slowing them. Not sure how those are supposed to interact though. Its also great on halfling rogues and gnome wizards. Getting left behind is terrible.
And let me say, the difference there is huge.
Ok so what you are saying is when you memorize the spell you have to decide then with the elemental spell what the energy mixture is?
Instead of doing it like say -- resist energy where you choose when you cast?
Yes. Metamagic spells take sorcerers extra time, and wizards have to memorize them in advance.
Wizards and Divine Spellcasters: Wizards and divine spellcasters must prepare their spells in advance. During preparation, the character chooses which spells to prepare with metamagic feats (and thus which ones take up higher-level spell slots than normal).
Sorcerers and Bards: Sorcerers and bards choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. Because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell's normal casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn't the same as a 1-round casting time.) The only exception is for spells modified by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat, which can be cast as normal using the feat.
You still get to choose which energy type at the time of casting as a wizard (or mix of times) see my above post. All decisions about the spell are made when cast.
The elemental spell metamagic feat gives you a choice, the three parts to that choice are:
1. Original damage type
2. The type of damage you chose when you took the feat.
3. A mixture of the original damage type and the element you chose with the feat.
While the spell must be prepared with the metamagic feat, that doesn't mean you must decide then what energy type will come out when you prepare it -- instead you make that decision when the spell is cast -- as you do all decisions about spells you cast.
While the spell must be prepared with the metamagic feat, that doesn't mean you must decide then what energy type will come out when you prepare it -- instead you make that decision when the spell is cast -- as you do all decisions about spells you cast.
So when you cast you have a free choice of two energy types, or a combination of them both ... that makes sense.
Currently, the top of my list is 'Elemental Spell' from the APG.
There have been others, and I'll add them as I find them, but what's the point of Elemental Spell, exactly?
As a sorcerer or bard it -might- be worthwhile, but otherwise you're looking at a one level penalty on a spell for no good reason. Dealing with only the 'big four' elements, and not even causing an acid spell to bypass spell resistance, it seems like a complete waste to me. Wouldn't this feat have been better served with a 0 level penalty? In ~95% of circumstances, lightning ball is identical to fireball.
I figured Tower Shield Proficiency would go the way of Use Rope. I guess if you know at the outset the campaign will involve a lot of mass combat, maybe, but does anyone really spend a feat on TSP?
I personally dont think the elemental spell should cost a level and a feat, but then again feats are kinda the non-casters buff, so maybe the plus one spell level is a tax on spellcasters in general for making non casters bite the big one haha.. probably not but it crossed my mind
I figured Tower Shield Proficiency would go the way of Use Rope. I guess if you know at the outset the campaign will involve a lot of mass combat, maybe, but does anyone really spend a feat on TSP?Currently, the top of my list is 'Elemental Spell' from the APG.
There have been others, and I'll add them as I find them, but what's the point of Elemental Spell, exactly?
As a sorcerer or bard it -might- be worthwhile, but otherwise you're looking at a one level penalty on a spell for no good reason. Dealing with only the 'big four' elements, and not even causing an acid spell to bypass spell resistance, it seems like a complete waste to me. Wouldn't this feat have been better served with a 0 level penalty? In ~95% of circumstances, lightning ball is identical to fireball.
I haven't spent a feat on it, but if I'm playing a fighter there is a decent chance I'll use it. Dwarven Phalanx fighters make very good use of tower shields.
Weapon Specialization--net. +2 to damage when you use nets, but nets don't cause damage, so there is no actual benefit.
Weapon Specialization--net. +2 to damage when you use nets, but nets don't cause damage, so there is no actual benefit.
I think this deserves some merit. SmiloDan actually found a feat that (unlike other examples that have atleast some sort of function no matter how small or trivial or taxing) is TOTALLY useless.
Bravo sir and +1 to you.
I always was good at useless information!
Weapon Specialization--net. +2 to damage when you use nets, but nets don't cause damage, so there is no actual benefit.I think this deserves some merit. SmiloDan actually found a feat that (unlike other examples that have atleast some sort of function no matter how small or trivial or taxing) is TOTALLY useless.
Bravo sir and +1 to you.
What if it was shocking net? Would the spec. damage bonus then make the net do more damage? 1D6 electricty + 2 damage and entangled. Wait shocking weapons only do their damage on an attack, right?, so if someone is in a shocking net they'd be fine except for the round they were hit with it... Is a flamming net fireproof...? In all of my time running and playing games I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a net thrown, all in 2E Night Below, so I guess I've ignored the 3.X and PF net adjucation rules...
What if it was shocking net? Would the spec. damage bonus then make the net do more damage? 1D6 electricty + 2 damage and entangled. Wait shocking weapons only do their damage on an attack, right?, so if someone is in a shocking net they'd be fine except for the round they were hit with it... Is a flamming net fireproof...? In all of my time running and playing games I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen a net thrown, all in 2E Night Below, so I guess I've ignored the 3.X and PF net adjucation rules...Weapon Specialization--net. +2 to damage when you use nets, but nets don't cause damage, so there is no actual benefit.I think this deserves some merit. SmiloDan actually found a feat that (unlike other examples that have atleast some sort of function no matter how small or trivial or taxing) is TOTALLY useless.
Bravo sir and +1 to you.
Lets not get into this haha
In pathfinder nets are used to entangle... if you use them as your main damaging weapon you deserve to encounter a bodak with your glasses on.