I created this more for my own amusement and as a class that I would be interested in playing. This is only for personal use, please to not publish.
I don't seem to be able to post the full class with tables on this thread, so HERE is the link to the google doc. If you have problems viewing it, let me know. Also if you don't like the class or you think there is something wrong or it's too overpowered or underpowered, let me know. Or if you just want to say thanks, that's nice too. ;-) Or you just want to say you hate the idea, that's not so nice, but I'm glad to have the feedback.
Let me know if you would include such a class in your campaign.
Thanks for your support ahead of time.
BS
Posting: Nov, 08/2010
As a spontaneous divine full-caster, your Mystic appears designed to replace WotC's Favored Soul. I like that; WotC’s spontaneous divine full-caster never appealed to me. (Sprouting feathery or bat-like wings always struck me as a horrible way for a Deity to show His/Her favor to a mortal.)
That said, I'd like to ask you three questions about salient design features I've noticed in contrasting your Mystic vs. WotC’s Favored Soul:
1. Whereas your Mystic and WotC's Favored Soul share the same middle BAB progression, your class only enjoys the good saving throw progression for Fort and Will; WotC's Favored Soul has all three saves following the fastest option. Why the deviation from precedence?
2. Whereas WotC's spontaneous divine full-caster mirrored their spontaneous arcane full-caster's Spells Per Day progression, you've identified a non-standard Spells Per Day progression for your Mystic. Your Mystic's Spells Per Day table neither follows the (heretofore universal) spontaneous full-caster's progression, nor the Cleric's/Wizard's (prepared full-caster) progression, nor the Druid's (also prepared -- but somewhat retarded -- full-caster) progression. Why the deviation from precedence?
3. Whereas WotC's spontaneous divine full-caster gained Spells Known slightly faster than their spontaneous arcane full-caster, you've again identified a non-standard Spells Known progression for your Mystic. Your Mystic's Spells Known table is the slowest of any full-caster in the game (from either WotC or Paizo). What feature of your class necessitates limiting the number of spells a Mystic can know to less than even a Sorcerer's Spells Known chart?
With your insights, I expect to be able to better analyze your Mystic class and make constructive suggestions for your consideration (or just tweaks to the class to use in my games, which I likely will do because I thrilled to the flavor-text you've written for introducing the Mystic).
This is an AWESOME class, that will totally not work for pathfinder.
Explanation:
Pathfinder is a very rigid system where everyone has a nicely defined roll. If you want to add abilities NOT in the class design, you must multiclass. There is no, take some from this class, take some from that class.
Your class concept (which is absolutely wonderful), attempts to shatter this core mechanic so that you can create exactly the character you want without the drawbacks of nerfing the crap out of yourself to achieve your goal.
How to make it Pathfinder friendly:
1) Pathfinder is a rigid system, and your class is far too flexible. Even the class variants in the APG are absolutely steadfast in that you get "this" at this level. There isn't much choice in that department. Customization in pathfinder occurs using feats, so you have to take that into consideration :)
2) As EJVW has mentioned repeatedly, he wants to know why you deviated from the other classes in pretty much each point he made. This really gets back to the pathfinder development protocol, that uses a set of questions to determine how to set up a class, like Are you a full caster / trained caster / partial caster / non-caster, you the answer gives you level 9 spells, 6 spells, 4 spells, or no spells respectively. The next question is, are you spontaneous caster or a prepared caster, becuase that determine how many of said spells you get per day. And this continues throughout the construction of every 1-20 class. So really, #2 is an extension of #1's pathfinder is kinda rigid.
PS - not that rigidity is a bad thing! I am not bashing pathfinder, I am just saying that it is set up in a particular way to create a particular product. Some of the rigidity is from 3.x issues, and some of it is from pathfinder stuffs :)
PPS - and just so I say it one more time. I think you class is a wonderfully creative construct! Have you thought about homebrewing the Enlightened Fist/Sacred Fist Prestige Class, since your base class really seems to be trying to achieve that "marriage"
1. Whereas your Mystic and WotC's Favored Soul share the same middle BAB progression, your class only enjoys the good saving throw progression for Fort and Will; WotC's Favored Soul has all three saves following the fastest option. Why the deviation from precedence?
Actually, I never have seen the Favoured Soul class. Was it 3.5 or 4e? I stopped playing at 3E and only picked up D&D again at Pathfinder.
2. Whereas WotC's spontaneous divine full-caster mirrored their spontaneous arcane full-caster's Spells Per Day progression, you've identified a non-standard Spells Per Day progression for your Mystic. Your Mystic's Spells Per Day table neither follows the (heretofore universal) spontaneous full-caster's progression, nor the Cleric's/Wizard's (prepared full-caster) progression, nor the Druid's (also prepared -- but somewhat retarded -- full-caster) progression. Why the deviation from precedence?3. Whereas WotC's spontaneous divine full-caster gained Spells Known slightly faster than their spontaneous arcane full-caster, you've again identified a non-standard Spells Known progression for your Mystic. Your Mystic's Spells Known table is the slowest of any full-caster in the game (from either WotC or Paizo). What feature of your class necessitates limiting the number of spells a Mystic can know to less than even a Sorcerer's Spells Known chart?
This two questions I`ll try to answer together. It`s all about balance. Not just in the game, but balance with the other classes. Since the class can cast from any spell list as well as fight along side the fighters and perhaps even outclass at some points, not to mention the ability to parry and the armour-less AC, I felt there had to be a penalty to pay to keep the class on par with the other classes. It is entirely possible that I have underpowered the class, but I need to test it out further. This is the first draft. A friend is going to run curse of the crimson throne. I`ll ask him if he`ll allow me to play this class as a test run. He`s a new GM, so I`m not sure how that will go, I would rather test with an experienced GM.
I hope that answers your questions. I`ll test some more and I`ll come back with updates. Oh and I`ll have to check out the favoured soul class.
Any comments are welcome and will help me to mold this into a good class.
Thanks again.
1) Pathfinder is a rigid system, and your class is far too flexible. Even the class variants in the APG are absolutely steadfast in that you get "this" at this level. There isn't much choice in that department. Customization in pathfinder occurs using feats, so you have to take that into consideration :)
Well as far as customization goes, I don`t think it`s a bad thing to introduce into pathfinder. I still think the class has it`s limitations.
And you mentioned the APG`s classes and they do have selection, such as the Oracle`s mysteries (select a mystery, then you have the option of what to take within that mystery - not all are dependant on level), also the Cavalier who again gets a selection that will colour how the character is played. I suppose we shouldn't even mention the rogue.There are only four Recondite Knowledges for all 20 levels of the Mystic. So having four selections for the entire class makes it no more or less flexible than the Oracle. But there is also the spells that a Mystic gets. I suppose I could be more rigid with that, but when you select a total of 10 spells to know over 20 levels, you really have to pick the right ones. So yes there are some choices, but I don`t think this precludes it from being a part of the Pathfinder package.
I do understand what you`re saying about rigidity, and I would agree with you, but Paizo is coming out with more and more core classes, there is bound to be overlap and at some point some choices to be made in those classes.
2) As EJVW has mentioned repeatedly, he wants to know why you deviated from the other classes in pretty much each point he made. This really gets back to the pathfinder development protocol, that uses a set of questions to determine how to set up a class, like Are you a full caster / trained caster / partial caster / non-caster, you the answer gives you level 9 spells, 6 spells, 4 spells, or no spells respectively. The next question is, are you spontaneous caster or a prepared caster, becuase that determine how many of said spells you get per day. And this continues throughout the construction of every 1-20 class. So really, #2 is an extension of #1's pathfinder is kinda rigid.
Well, I did feel that this new class needed something a little different, especially considering the "Adapted Spell" ability. I had to look at balance and the Oracle (divine spontaneous caster) can only cast spells from the cleric list. This list isn't as "Explosive" as the wizard list, so they can get away with the greater amount of spells per day without overpowering the game. The sorcerer, who is the arcane equivalent to the oracle, has very few if any combat abilities. Since the Mystic has combat ability and is given a mix of almost any spells, it is best to limit it's ability in that area by a new chart.
Also don't rule out the possibility of new charts coming from Paizo for new classes. Take a look at the bard and compare their spells per day and known spells to the oracle. Both are spontaneous casters, but the bards spells per day are much lower.It is possible that I have underpowered, but I will have to test more first.
If you or anyone out there gets a chance to test this class, let me know how it went. If things were underpowered or if the class blew everyone out of the water. I think that it's fairly balanced, but despite it's versatility, the class can't do everything.
PPS - and just so I say it one more time. I think you class is a wonderfully creative construct! Have you thought about homebrewing the Enlightened Fist/Sacred Fist Prestige Class, since your base class really seems to be...
What class is that? Never heard of it. I don't get much of a chance to get on these boards much.
Thanks for your comments, good and bad. It gives me something to think about. ;-)
Ok, did a few tests and you guys were right. Not even going through an adventure it's obvious that the spells known are too low.
I changed the table to be the same as the Pathfinder Oracle table progression.
Thanks for the ideas.
Changed Nov 10/2010 - increased spells known table to be more in keeping with Pathfinder rules and to allow the class some spells to use (other than just one at first level)
I also like this class, and will probably steal it to go into my "unofficial homebrewes" folder for future use. As for the custumization of any parts of it, I also think that that is not a bad thing.
And as pertaining to overlap, that is also going to happen. WotC had all areas pretty well covered with the original classes, so anything new would be a pretty safe bet that it is going to encompass one if not more of those areas. Just saying. Even the new classes in the APG are mostly just specialized versions of pre-existing classes with a twist.
Any chance you'd like to post this at the Pathfinder Database?
I also like this class, and will probably steal it to go into my "unofficial homebrewes" folder for future use. As for the custumization of any parts of it, I also think that that is not a bad thing.
And as pertaining to overlap, that is also going to happen. WotC had all areas pretty well covered with the original classes, so anything new would be a pretty safe bet that it is going to encompass one if not more of those areas. Just saying. Even the new classes in the APG are mostly just specialized versions of pre-existing classes with a twist.
Thanks. Let me know how it goes it you play.
Any chance you'd like to post this at the Pathfinder Database?
Sure, but it's still in test phase. Would you be able to add the updates when/if it is changed?
Any chance you'd like to post this at the Pathfinder Database?Sure, but it's still in test phase. Would you be able to add the updates when/if it is changed?
Of course. I handle edits for a lot of entries. That's why I don't include comments on the individual entries themselves because the comments may refer to a previous version of the content.
Actually, I never have seen the Favored Soul class. Was it 3.5 or 4e? I stopped playing at 3E and only picked up D&D again at Pathfinder.
I gained exposure to WotC's Favored Soul via the Complete Divine (a v3.5 book), though it was originally published in the Miniatures Handbook.
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I appreciate you posting the results your first play-test experience. Utilizing the Oracle's Spells Known progression is an elengant refinement. I look forward to seeing this class in play. Thanks for sharing it with the community.