Yesterday I gamemastered "The Hook Mountain Massacre" and stumbled over this particular topic (that is, map scales). In THMM the overland distance between Magnimar and Turtleback Ferry is given as 450 miles (the map of Varisia unfortunately has a scale bar without a legend).
This is inconsistend with the "world map" (i. e. the one depicting Avistan and northern Garund that was published with the Gazetteer and the Golarion CS). Using its scale bar, the distance should be much less, more like ~200 miles.
Ok, no big deal, things like that are unavoidable I guess.
BUT: I think the scale on the world map is way too small. From eternal ice to steaming jungles in 1200 miles? Thats only from northern Norway to central Germany! Or from Anchorage to Vancouver or sth.
It certainly makes Avistan very small, much much smaller than Europe (which I guess is in some ways a model for it, just as Africa is for Garund and Asia for Casmaron), and only about 1/4 as large as the U. S.
Why is that? Why are the climate zones this close together? Is Golarion that much smaller than our earth? I certainly hope not, I think high fantasy deserves large distances, great wildernesses etc.
Or is the scale on the map incorrect?
Clouds, really? Why would clouds be marked on a map?
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Clouds, really? Why would clouds be marked on a map?
More of a beyond this is unkown aka not mapped out. I believe it was suppose to be ice at first but later when the scales was pointed out I think James said they was clouds or the unsure edge of the map. Don't quote me on that, that forum thread happened some time back and I am going off my faulty memory.
the map of Varisia unfortunately has a scale bar without a legend
I just noticed that this is only true for the poster map of the RotR map folio. The map in PF #3 has a scale (120 miles), which about fits to the distance given in the text.
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Based on some quick calculations, The Isle of Kortos is a bit larger than the state of Delaware. The distance between the north-most part of the Campaign Setting book's poster map and the northern-most part of Garund is about 1,600 mi. The distance between Calgary, Canada (closest city to the Bugaboo Glacier) and Las Vegas, NV (within Nevada's Mojave Desert) is less than 1,200 mi.
Overall, I don't think this map is terribly off. I do think that the map needs to be a small chunk of the world, but I think that's been reasonably established.
Creative Director
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The "clouds" or "ice" along the northern edge of the map were originally intended to be the polar ice cap. But the problem is that unless Golarion is in an ice age, that polar ice cap is WAY too south.
The map itself is being somewhat revised along the northern edge so that, while there's still a giant glacier along the northern edge of Irrisen, we'll soon be revealing other terrain features along that edge as well. The Inner Sea poster map folio and the revised Campaign Setting book will both have this newer map.
To help put things in some perspective, the arctic circle is north of the current northern map edge, and the equator is south of its southern edge. The tropic of cancer runs more or less through Nex somewhere.
The map itself is being somewhat revised along the northern edge so that, while there's still a giant glacier along the northern edge of Irrisen, we'll soon be revealing other terrain features along that edge as well. The Inner Sea poster map folio and the revised Campaign Setting book will both have this newer map.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing that info!
To help put things in some perspective, the arctic circle is north of the current northern map edge, and the equator is south of its southern edge. The tropic of cancer runs more or less through Nex somewhere.
Things like polar circle and the tropics are connected to the obliquity of the ecliptic - is this angle the same for golarion and earth? IS earth the same size as golarion?
IS earth the same size as golarion?
Unless they changed their minds, the Earth and Golarion are both set up to be the same size and shape (also probably with the same size moon and same distance from the sun).
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Creative Director
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Things like polar circle and the tropics are connected to the obliquity of the ecliptic - is this angle the same for golarion and earth? IS earth the same size as golarion?
To help put things in some perspective, the arctic circle is north of the current northern map edge, and the equator is south of its southern edge. The tropic of cancer runs more or less through Nex somewhere.
Yes to both.
And that's a great example of WHY Golarion is the same size and has the same features as Earth. No one at Paizo is an astrophysicist, and thus when we need to be able to answer things like "where is the equator?" or "what's gravity like?" or "how do tides work?" we can just answer "just like on Earth."
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... And that's a great example of WHY Golarion is the same size and has the same features as Earth. No one at Paizo is an astrophysicist, and thus when we need to be able to answer things like "where is the equator?" or "what's gravity like?" or "how do tides work?" we can just answer "just like on Earth."
Size can be arm-waved a bit... gravity is less of a problem than you'd think, and a larger planet can always be made of a less dense material than our nickle-iron core as long as it still has enough iron to produce a protective magnetosphere.
The main thing you have to make identical to Earth (besides the obvious conditions required by Earth-like life) or risk nerds with slide-rules battering down your door, is the axial tilt relative to the planet's orbit around its sun. If it's different from Earth's, you have to explain your seasons and weather, and even in the real world, the impact on seasons of changing the axial tilt of the Earth has been the subject of some debate (climatology is about a billion times harder than anyone outside the field typically suspects... don't go in there without a supercomputer and a couple of the small number of crazy good mathematicians that didn't want to accept a job with the NSA).
... And that's a great example of WHY Golarion is the same size and has the same features as Earth. No one at Paizo is an astrophysicist, and thus when we need to be able to answer things like "where is the equator?" or "what's gravity like?" or "how do tides work?" we can just answer "just like on Earth."Size can be arm-waved a bit... gravity is less of a problem than you'd think, and a larger planet can always be made of a less dense material than our nickle-iron core as long as it still has enough iron to produce a protective magnetosphere.
The main thing you have to make identical to Earth (besides the obvious conditions required by Earth-like life) or risk nerds with slide-rules battering down your door, is the axial tilt relative to the planet's orbit around its sun. If it's different from Earth's, you have to explain your seasons and weather, and even in the real world, the impact on seasons of changing the axial tilt of the Earth has been the subject of some debate (climatology is about a billion times harder than anyone outside the field typically suspects... don't go in there without a supercomputer and a couple of the small number of crazy good mathematicians that didn't want to accept a job with the NSA).
I'm certainly no astronomer, but I believe Uranus has around 14 times the mass of the earth but has less gravity, since it's mass is spaced less densely. I also remember reading a pop science article where it was theorized that a planet could be up to four times the surface area then the earth and could still support earth-like life.
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Creative Director
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I'm certainly no astronomer, but I believe Uranus has around 14 times the mass of the earth but has less gravity, since it's mass is spaced less densely. I also remember reading a pop science article where it was theorized that a planet could be up to four times the surface area then the earth and could still support earth-like life.
There's also no land to stand on there either. Opens up more questions about how to adventure there than it solves.
The "clouds" or "ice" along the northern edge of the map were originally intended to be the polar ice cap. But the problem is that unless Golarion is in an ice age, that polar ice cap is WAY too south.
...I LIKED the idea of Golarion being in an Ice Age, because the next obvious thought is that when it wasn`t so in a previous age, there were other civilizations, etc, which are now buried under the ice. ...Enter exploration of Ice covered civilizations...
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There's also no land to stand on there either. Opens up more questions about how to adventure there than it solves.I'm certainly no astronomer, but I believe Uranus has around 14 times the mass of the earth but has less gravity, since it's mass is spaced less densely. I also remember reading a pop science article where it was theorized that a planet could be up to four times the surface area then the earth and could still support earth-like life.
Have you read Manta's Gift - Avatar totally ripped off the idea, but instead of big blue hippies, you become giant cloud sailing mantas.
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Have you read Manta's Gift - Avatar totally ripped off the idea, but instead of big blue hippies, you become giant cloud sailing mantas.There's also no land to stand on there either. Opens up more questions about how to adventure there than it solves.I'm certainly no astronomer, but I believe Uranus has around 14 times the mass of the earth but has less gravity, since it's mass is spaced less densely. I also remember reading a pop science article where it was theorized that a planet could be up to four times the surface area then the earth and could still support earth-like life.
I actually remember reading they had the manuscript for Avatar in the late 90's but the technology wasn't there to be able to make the movie cost effectively.
So that book was first published in 02'?
Sean
And that's a great example of WHY Golarion is the same size and has the same features as Earth. No one at Paizo is an astrophysicist, and thus when we need to be able to answer things like "where is the equator?" or "what's gravity like?" or "how do tides work?" we can just answer "just like on Earth."
Or you do like Exalted or Discworld, and just toss physics. :)
("Gravity? Same as Earth. Why? Who knows?")