This tread is dedicated to a homebrew setting that, as the title says, does not include any humans and for that matters, no elves, half-elves or half-orcs, dwarves, gnomes or halfings either.
While I have been thinking about this for some time, I haven't done any serious work about it nor have I the intention of dedicating much time on it now; I’m kinda making this along. Therefore, I'm putting this on the forum so that anyone inspired can participate if he or she wishes so.
I’m kinda making this setting/world for fun and as a though experiment. Feel free to expend on it, or even start the first chapter. All I ask is that the following guidelines (see post below) be respected.
I shall attempt to update and compile everything on this googledoc document.
This World Has No Humans.
As a matter of fact, it does not have dwarves, elves, half-elves, half-orcs, halflings and gnomes either: it is only populated by fantastical and mythological creatures. Despite the lack of humans, most of these creatures are humanoid (like goblins and ogres) or antropomoprphic (like centaurs or harpies). In this world, magic is common and can be found everywhere, but spellcasters are very rare.
The inhabitants of this world are segregated in two categories: commoners and extraordinary individuals.
Commoners (not to be confused with the NPC class) are always the typical version of their kind as it appear in the Bestiary (including the level 1 warrior version of 1HD humanoids) . They represent the vast majority of the inhabitants of the world. Commoners do not gain levels in NPC classes or character classes; they are doomed to remain the same forever.
A very small portions of the inhabitants are extraordinary individuals. These are not simply stronger versions of their kind, they may possess additional powers or lack basic abilities of their lesser, typical kind. Most of these individuals are rather unique and stand above the mass as leaders, marginals or lone wolves. These are your PCs, villains and main NPCs. Only extraordinary individuals have the ability to earn experience and gain levels.
Also, this world has no gods as D&D knows them. Instead, a creature reaching 17th-20th level is considered godly and rule over a domain of its own. The more powerful the creature is, the bigger and more influential its domain is.
While all character classes have “godly potential” high level divine spellcaters are THE definition of a god. Often times, several gods coexist in harmony, symbiosis or completion of opposites. We could easily image a successful party of PCs including a druid “over-god”, a wizard god of knowledge, a ranger god of hunters, a bard god of arts and trickery etc, all living in the same forested domain, governing different races and factions of commoners.
Divine spellcasters are gods-in-the-making, referred to as “godlings” under 10th level and recognised as “true god” once they can cast miracle spells and such. In this world, divine spellcasters have no god to pray to and are themselves the source of their own power. While they have no one to answer to, they must “revere” the aspects of the domains they have selected, which is usually reflected in their “estate”.
Godlings are usually well protected by small coteries of extraordinary individuals (PCs and villains) and targeted by enemy factions. Most PC groups include a godling, and the other PCs form its entourage. In these groups, the godling is always both ward and protector, but not always the leader of the group nor the character around whom the whole story revolves.
Arcane spellcasters are “cheaters”, binding the essences of magic to their will rather than naturally manipulating them like other gods. Arcane spellcaster are often mad and sinister individuals, but some more lucid and good-hearted (yet no less mad) wizards or sorcerers turn out once in a while. Under 10th level, arcane spellcasters are either low key or isolated villains, but once they can cast reality altering spells à la wish etc, arcane spellcasters can be just as powerful and influential as gods.
On Extraordinary Individuals and Appearances
In this world, appearances may not match the description of a creature. Goblin commoners are just that: goblins (lvl 1 warriors). But an extraordinary goblin may have totally different stats, yet remain a goblin for the sake of physical description.
For example, this band of goblin might be let by a particularly fierce and large war leader, who is blessed with regenerative powers allowing him to survive battles after battles.
That goblin uses the stats of a troll, fights like a troll, regenerates like a troll and does exactly everything trolls can do. However, he remains a goblin, thinks like a goblin and looks like a goblin, albeit an extraordinary large one with particularly bestial claws and jaws.
Other extraordinary individuals (including PCs) gain levels in a character class. Regardless of the physical outlook of the "base creature", a creature with a character class ALWAYS uses one of the following races as a base:
Small or smaller creatures:
Gnome
Halfling
Medium or larger creatures:
Half-orc
Half-elf
Dwarf
Elf
Therefore, a goblin sneak PC might be built using the halfling race with levels in rogue, or an awaken eagle PC might be built as an elven monk.
Tiny and Large creature should be permitted in appearance only. Therefore, an Ogre PC might be in reality a dwarven barbarian while a pixie might be a gnome bard. Everything story-oriented would consider the ogre's great size and the pixie's ability to fly, but mechanically, they would remain medium-sized and a small, land-based creature respectively.
Alternatively, I've been considering giving spell-like abilities to all PCs, giving them extra punch (Bull's strength for the Ogre?) or emulating racial abilities (pixie's flight?). Perhaps the "dead character levels" (i.e. the levels at which the character doesn't gain a feat nor an ability boost) to "slot" these spell like abilities?
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(moved this post out of the way)
Spoilered so it won't mess with the flow of Laurenfindel's intro(also, I misread the first few sentences of both posts twice somehow. My bad. Edited to make sense):
Such a world would be a great vehicle to completely kick homogenous racial cultures to the curb.
That is, on far too many settings, humans get all the variety in culture, while non-humans, even dwarves, halflings, orcs, etc. get a single monolithic culture to bind them.
A setting without humans could easily force the issue. Harpies in the Great Salt Desert or whatever should have a very different culture from those islander harpies. Same for nomadic plainsmen centaurs and sedentery "Fertile Crescent" centaurs. Some medusas might go the route of the burqa for the sake of their neighbors, while others might live as an upper/ruling class while rocking the saris.
One idea could be to find a point of origin on the planet for each of your major races, and let them flow out and let their cultures evolve and diverge rganically according to the environment and interactions with other races. You might have some end-goals in mind already for some of them, but following that evolution backwards or forwards could lead to interesting new ideas to explore as well.
(admittedly this is me harping on a personal pet peeve, but hey, might be applicable to the project!)
I'm curious, with this god set-up, what does the cosmology beyond the Prime Material Plane look like?
Perhaps the afterlife is populated solely by gods that have passed on, while normal beings reincarnate again and again until they've built up enough positive(or negative!) karma to start ascending beyond their station.
Or do the gods dwell surrounded by their followers, gained both during their mortal lives and after their shedding of the mortal coil?
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Alternatively, I've been considering giving spell-like abilities to all PCs, giving them extra punch (Bull's strength for the Ogre?) or emulating racial abilities (pixie's flight?). Perhaps the "dead character levels" (i.e. the levels at which the character doesn't gain a feat nor an ability boost) to "slot" these spell like abilities?
What about letting the PC's "evolve" themselves using the Eidolon mechanics? A batch of evo points to use at those dead levels?
Such a world would be a great vehicle to completely kick homogenous racial cultures to the curb.(...) Harpies in the Great Salt Desert or whatever should have a very different culture from those islander harpies. Same for nomadic plainsmen centaurs and sedentery "Fertile Crescent" centaurs. Some medusas might go the route of the burqa for the sake of their neighbors, while others might live as an upper/ruling class while rocking the saris.
Hell yeah!
I'm curious, with this god set-up, what does the cosmology beyond the Prime Material Plane look like?
I think this calls for a parallel muiltiverse form that of D&D/pathfinder. On the other hand, having a human interloper character could be fun...
If that happens too frequently, the whole point would be kinda lost, especially if our "gods" start planewalking, meet human-dominant planes and much more powerful gods.
While I don't have any RAW materials to back this up, I had in mind that the souls of the followers that die in a god's domain or "estate" would fuel some of their epic spells, or allow some badass metamagic etc. Too many lost souls at the same time could result in some kind of mana-surge, potentially destroying the god if its followers are all slain simultaneously. I can see evil gods asking for regular sacrifices of faithful, or spells that allow souls of non-faithful to fuel magic when they die in their land etc...
What about letting the PC's "evolve" themselves using the Eidolon mechanics? A batch of evo points to use at those dead levels?
Very interesting idea.
Also mean the whole "PCs = gods" thing to be a background tapestry at first, a reality for which the PCs are not quite ready by mid-level and an accomplishment at high levels.
Although I don't know about the idea of restricting PC stats to existing races: for some people it's going to ruin immersion, and from my perspective it just cuts down on some interesting things that could be done.
You know, its a very mechanical guideline that is only meant to keep a bunch of exotic PCs in line with the balance scale that we are accustomed to. It should be about playing the (exotic) character we want, not about scanning the bestiary for the most advantageous (i.e. over-powered) creature there is...
That being said, for a group that would like to experiment with monstrous levels and other means to balance powerful characters (or not!), that'd be the perfect opportunity!
If one travels east, beyond the volcanic Fire Hills, he'll find a large and ancient forest home to several tribes of satyrs, elk-centaurs and water nixies communally known as the Sylvans.
The sylvan forest is the domain of a forest god known as the Great Horned One who is served by a few animal gods that he have tamed. He is also the master of the tree ghosts, shadowy forest spirits that guide sylvans in need and confuse or harass would-be invaders.
The sylvan forest is full of ancient and overgrown ruins, old wall of stone and crevasses made by powerful earthquakes. The faint auras of once powerful spells still linger here and there, witness of epic battles fought before any of the forest's inhabitants' racial memory can reach.
During the day, the Great Horned One looks like a tall satyr with boar feet and particularly large elk antlers. His skin has the appearance of bark and his beard looks like lichen, which is abundant and green in spring and summer and shrivels-up as the winter grows. At nightfall, the Horned Hunter becomes the Windstalker and disappears as a mass of air that can take the shape of a storm or a a whirlwind when angry. In this form, he battles the cold and keep winter at bay, he diverts the ashes of the nearby volcanic Fire Hills and brings moisture with the morning rain just as the sun rises.
The forest is constantly harassed by the goblins and ogres (and their minotaur slaves) of the Fire Hill but still hold its truce with the harpies and gnolls of the so called Sphinx King in the south. The Great Horned One participate in most large battles but otherwise let his lieutenant, Hurong the dire boar, lead the elk-centaurs and satyrs along his own boar warriors to battle. Shinaa, goddess of the forest's rivers and ponds that lie at the center of the forest guide the nixies to provide food and bread for the forest warriors and tend to the healing springs. Her nixies also tend to the newborns and to the dead, returning their bodies to the soil and their souls to the trees. Once in a lifetime, every sylvan pays homage to the oracle of the forest by undertaking a pilgrimage to the land of dreams.
Legends tell of a time where the oracle was hostile to the sylvans, and of how she wrestle control of the tree ghost from the Great Horned One. Nowadays, the tree ghost are loyal to the Great Horned One again and the oracle does not defy him, but she remains nevertheless respected and feared by all sylvans.
The spiked forest of Dun-Nanthur
Far in the south where the frosts of winter have no hold, one would find the (in)famous forests of Dun-Nanthur. While usually referred to in the plural, Dun-Nanthur is in reality one large forested realm crisscrossed by several wide and deep canyons filled with rushing waters.
These southern trees provide such a thick canopy that the forests are perpetually plunged in a gloomy twilight, allowing many species of fungi to grow and thrive. Many of these fungi are toxic to the touch or emit poisonous spores. One species even emits large urchin-like spores capable of killing a wild boar should it fall directly on it. In addition to the fungi, thorny bushes and giant flytraps make travelling along the forests’ floor even more hazardous. Manticores and ettercaps hunt on rodents and flying creatures that can navigate through the walls of thorns and evade the fungi’s poisons, but delight feasting on bigger games whenever they can get them. Safe travel can only be done down the canyons where the open sky prevents the growth of dangerous fungi and allow manticores to be spotted easily.
Down these gorges and canyons, three communities of tengu have built villages on the cliffs. These villages also house a significant number of bugbears and since recently, rat-people refugees (use wererat hybrid form, no curse or shape-changing abilities) from the neighboring wetlands of Ber-Igog. These rat-folk have brought a level of trade and commerce with other nations like Dun-Nanthur has never seen before.
The tengus of Dun-Nandhur have a few godlings of their own but otherwise pay homage to three mysterious mummified god-kings of unknown origins. Each of these mummies seems to have adopted one of the three tengu communities as its own, forcing a certain “competition” between the villages. While this competition has never come to more than isolated skirmishes, cooperation is only seen in times of invasion. Of the inhabitants of Dun-Nanthur, the tengus are the only one practicing mummification upon their dead.
The people of Dun-Nanthar also regularly pay homage to the nymphs that guard the rivers and dig the canyons. Without these river goddesses, life in Dun-Nanthur would be impossible but for those completely immune to poison…
This post - On Extraordinary Individuals and Appearances
sounds really cool, reinforces that background should influence personality and not just stats/abilities.
Re-No gods. Reminded me of Ancient Egyptians. Powerful people claimed to be pharoahs or god-kings, but were not actually immortal.
Following that line of thought you could reintroduce followers from 2nd ed D&D where most classes got followers as they went up levels. Or perhaps D6 Henchmen or Followers per level above 5th. Extra D6 for important quests etc.
As for the Planes, it could be like Ancient Greek mythology, its all one massive world, and Hades is far in the earth and Mount Olympus is high in the mountains, but both still on the same plane.
I'm thinking bronze age technology would fit in well with this, a few large cities but mostly small farming villages and miles and miles of wilderness.
Re-No gods. Reminded me of Ancient Egyptians. Powerful people claimed to be pharoahs or god-kings, but were not actually immortal.
Indeed, that's part of the inspiration, but the initial incentive was prompted by the frequent claims that "at high level, a d&d/Pathfinder RPG spellcaster is like a god" in posts discussing about scarcity/role of magic in a given setting.
I'm thinking bronze age technology would fit in well with this, a few large cities but mostly small farming villages and miles and miles of wilderness.
Yes, I've been thinking that too, with iron existing in some places but too few individuals with the knowledge/equipment of manufacturing a decent steel to flood the market with masterwork full plates...
As for the Planes, it could be like Ancient Greek mythology, its all one massive world, and Hades is far in the earth and Mount Olympus is high in the mountains, but both still on the same plane.
Yes, that'd work best.
In all cases, I want to keep the abilities of gods (and their abilities to create celestial domains) within those of a 20th level character, which still quite significant especially in the case of a cleric or wizard.
At least that's part of the "exercise"
'findel
The Monastery of Ten Thousand Steps
North of the wetlands of Ber-Igog and south of the imperial domain of the god-emperor lies the Monastery of Ten Thousand Steps. Despite its relatively small size and absence of any single, powerful god, the monastery plays an important diplomatic role as a politically neutral group and provider of loyal yet neutral mercenaries.
The complex is in fact a series of over one hundred buildings and training courts spanning over the tops of more than twenty tall and narrow mountains reminiscent of the Huangshan Mountains of China. Narrow rope bridges and short stone arches link all these buildings together in ways that seem to defies gravity. Once a place of quiet and isolation, the Monastery is now bursting with the voices of envoys, diplomats and dignitaries over the constant noise of training fighters and monks.
The monastery takes its name from the legendary stairs that lead to the original temple, counting exactly ten thousand steps. According to the legend, the stair was a physical representation of the ten thousand spiritual steps necessary to achieve enlightened perfection. While there are much better and easier route to reach the complex by now, an individual that wishes to be trained as monk there is expected to tread the ancient path and climb the stairs of old like did all his forbearers.
The whole mountain range is protected by a flight of wind gods in the form of colorful winged serpents (coualt) who zealously patrol the area far and wide around the monastery. The wind spirits suffer the presence of walking creatures on their mountain no matter how high they get, but jealously guard the skies against any attempt to fly from one mountain to another. Flying creatures better walk while entering the mountain range or face relentless wrath of the spirits of the wind.
Other than these wind gods, the monks of the monastery revere former masters and mystics who succeeded in reaching perfect self. Their statues adorn the original temple where the monks come to meditate and offer gifts of flowers, incense and blood.
Nowadays, master Hishumu is the grand master of the Monastery of 10 000 Steps; an old boggard on the verge to achieve self-perfection and vanish among the stars. Traditionally, the grand master chooses a successor among the the other masters - collectively known as the nine - long before his departure, but Hishumu as yet to do so. Already, the competition among them is higher than it ever has been and tensions start to rise between their disciples...
The Fire Hills
Situated north-west of the the Silvani Forest, the Fire Hills are an active volcanic formation. It is a land of thunder and lava, of raining ashes and rivers of fire. Despite the seemingly inhospitable landscape, the Fire Hills boast one of the largest metropolis of the known world: the ogre city-state of Kinaska.
Other than its volcanic activity, the Fire Hills are known for their warmongering god-king: the red dragon known as the Great Wyrm. If the Great Wyrm ever bore another name, history has forgotten it. As far as the world is concerned, he is THE great wyrm, the only dragon of that age and power and the name he took for himself proclaims that there cannot be another one.
The Great Wyrm demands absolute devotion from his subjects and has outlawed any other form of cult or reverence. Godlings hailing from Kinaska are permitted to exist and perform magic only as long as they cast their spell in his name and pay all proper homage, culminating by their own self-sacrifice to the dragon when they reach the peak of their power (which the Great Wyrm evaluates at 15th level or so). Godlings of any other origin are not allowed within the metropolis’ walls under penalty of death.
Wizards and other arcane spellcasters enjoy a better public image and much more individual liberties, but rivalry between warlocks (as they are locally known) is such that most die before they can establish their godly status. Only a handful have raised themselves high enough to be considered publicly recognised as “untouchables”. These warlocks are the Great Wyrm’s favorite agents and while none would publicly revere them, they together hold nearly as much power than the Great Wyrm himself.
The city-state has a mixed population primarily consisting of ogres, goblins and their minotaur slaves. As the original inhabitants of the Fire Hills, the minotaurs have been enslaved by the Great Wyrm as a race. Very few communities of free minotaurs exist outside the Fire Hills, and rare are those communities totaling more than a dozen individuals. Within the metropolis however, the minotaurs are prised slaves treated with as much care as their station allows. They are used as elite soldiers in the armies and bodyguards around successful ogres (use the hill giant stats for extraordinary ogres). More cunning and aggressive than their ogre masters, it is surprising that the minotaurs have not broken their shackles yet... The secular masters of the city are the black-skinned fire ogres (use fire giant stats) who live in tall manors along the river of lava that crosses the city and can afford riches such as armor and large-size two-handed sword.
Surrounding the city-state, the volcanic plains are surprisingly fertile and the goblins grow all type of comestible fungi and plants. Because of the ever-changing (and inherently dangerous) nature of the plains, these crops are usually dedicated to herds of giant insects that are used as meat stock, beast of burden, mounts and war juggernauts. A few types of fungi grow fast enough to be harvested and ground into a flour to make bread. Other goblins also work in forges near the river downstream of the volcanoes. There, the minerals are extracted from the sand and smelted into weapons and armor. While the iron is of good quality, the quantities are too scarce to allow cheap suits of armors, so their production consist primary of weapons. Mine working is simply impossible within the Fire Hills.
Providing, training, equipping and feeding soldiers are the principal activities of the whole nation. The only thing keeping the Great Wyrm from dominating the world is his inability to regenerate his troops fast enough...
Hum, I'm enjoying this world more and more! Too bad I seem to be the only one :(
I can't put much time on it at the moment, so please contribute if you feel like it! Whatever goes trough your mind is probably fine; that's what I'm putting down on (virtual) paper...
The Wetlands of Ber-Igog
The wetlands of Ber-Igog occupy the whole estuary between the Spiked Forests and the coastal realms of Iranar.
Before hitting the Southern Shield Plateau, the rivers flowing down the Spiked Forests slow down and dissolve into one big marsh. Several thousand chunks of rock and dry-ish soil dot the wetlands like the islands of a tropical archipelago, holding the houses of its boggard inhabitants. If the boggards are the kings of wetlands, the rat-folks or Ber-Igog are the true masters of its rivers. Also known as the raft people, the rat-folk live primarily on rafts and barges, acting both as tradesmen and ferrymen for locals and strangers alike.
The wetlands is mainly comprised of rural areas - although these look thoroughly wild - where boggards and rat-folk live in peaceful symbiosis. Urban areas do not really exist as other societies know them; the whole wetlands act as one large and spread-out town with its rivers acting as streets and avenues.
To the north where the wetlands flood the deep valleys of the mountain range (in which the Monastery of Ten Thousands Steps is built) a large band of lizardmen continuously plot to take control of Ber-Igog. Unfortunately for the lizardmen, their warriors are far too sparse and few to cause anything but annoying skirmishes and raids against their boggard enemies. The lizardmen have long stood without a strong ally or leader, but a new king among them is rising with unprecedented evil and cunning.
The wetlands are ruled by an old boggard hero named Hokarh, who vanquished the omnipotent and thoroughly evil lich-queen that ruled the wetlands before him. Once very active and caring of his own people, Hokarh is an ageing and grumpy leader assailed by headaches and psychological exhaustion after all these years of leadership. He would gladly step down and leave his throne vacant for a younger, more enthusiast king, but he feels that the rising unrest among the lizardmen of the north will require his axe to be sharpened, one last time.
Like most lands of this world, the wetlands of Ber-Igog have its own protective spirits. In addition to the usual marches-loving creatures such as striges and giant frogs, the wetlands boast a population of will-o’-wisps and rather sinister water nagas with whom the boggards and rat-folk are nevertheless on good terms. The lizardmen of the north have tamed giant crocodiles which they learned to use as mounts. All but the most desperate avoid the southernmost portion of the wetlands; these are the hunting grounds of the froghemoth, which the boggards used to worship as a god in the time of their lich-queen ruler.
This tread is dedicated to a homebrew setting that, as the title says, does not include any humans and for that matters, no elves, half-elves or half-orcs, dwarves, gnomes or halfings either
I created a world and rand a D&D 3.5 game with a similar change, and it worked quite well.
I designated different PC races. They're all standard D&D fare, but with the rules tweaked to make them work as PCs balanced with each other:
- Goblin
- Orc
- Kobold
- Bugbear
- Hobgoblin
- Half Ogre
- Half Minotaur
There were a number of other changes of course. I'm just mentioning this to encourage you to give it a try. When I did, it was fun to write, the players enjoyed the variety, and it wasn't tough to balance.
The Coastal Realms or Iranar
Collectively known as the coastal realms of Iranar, these four independent city-states perform most of the trade in the southern parts of the continent. Sooner or later, everything transits trough one of these cities.
While all are harbour cities dealing in sea travel, the coastal realms also include the whole basin of Ira in which the Great Orange River and the Wetlands of Ber-Igog drains before meeting the sea. Breathtakingly beautiful, the basin is nevertheless a dangerous land of wild cascades, deep gorges and numerous waterfalls featuring few safe passage or secure shelter. This is also the land of the undines (aquatic dryads) who jealously keep the rivers and land unspoiled and wild. The undines do no come close to the sea where the rivers get saltier however, allowing for the city states to farm the fertile lands of the delta.
Near the ocean, the fertile fields of he delta give way to sandy beaches, and the gorges dissolve into thousands of tall and narrows islands detaching themselves from the cliffs. Most of these islands are virtually inaccessible and either stand deserted or hold the villas of Iranari aristocrats. Nested upon the biggest of these islands stand the four sister city-states of Medeasar (City of medusas), Lamiorie (City of Lamias), Harpina (City of Harpies) and Hagia (City of the Sea Hags).
Despite their segregated aristocracies (as specified above), all four cities share many resemblances in terms of culture, architecture and economy. Gnolls form the basis of their population, but all four cities are remarkably cosmopolitan. Merfolk constitute the gnoll’s primary trade partners and great parts of these cities are build to accommodate their presence. The Iranari realms also sport a fair minotaur population which occupy a respected warrior-caste, as well as numerous merchants and ambassadors from the neighbouring Hobgoblin Empire, Kingdom of the Sphinx and cyclopean city of Tirycenae. Rat-folks from the wetlands of Ber-Igog are a common sight, but unlike other neighbouring realms, they do not hold any permanent warehouses nor embassy in any of the city-states.
In each city, the medusas, lamias, harpies and sea hags respectively rule their matriarchal society. None are as evil as their reputation holds, and they collectively rule in wisdom for the benefit of the whole Iranian realms. Among all four cities, the veil is an important part of every woman's wardrobe (and in many case, a necessity for life in society). Iranari women have developed an art of seduction based on their luxurious veils that is known across the continent, and the coastal realms are reputed for its exoticism and sensual pleasures. If the hearts of young men are not literally devoured anymore, Iranari aristocrats remain nevertheless perilous women indeed!
Tiny and Large creature should be permitted in appearance only. Therefore, an Ogre PC might be in reality a dwarven barbarian while a pixie might be a gnome bard. Everything story-oriented would consider the ogre's great size and the pixie's ability to fly, but mechanically, they would remain medium-sized and a small, land-based creature respectively.
I think this will yank you out of the suspension of disbelief in a hurry.
As an example (I know this is not a "Large" creature)"I am a Mighty Hill Giant, God among my people. From my great hight I can see for miles around. Except if someone tries to poke me with a bit of sharp metal, then i can no longer see over the treeline."
Tiny and Large creature should be permitted in appearance only. Therefore, an Ogre PC might be in reality a dwarven barbarian while a pixie might be a gnome bard. Everything story-oriented would consider the ogre's great size and the pixie's ability to fly, but mechanically, they would remain medium-sized and a small, land-based creature respectively.
I think this will yank you out of the suspension of disbelief in a hurry.
As an example (I know this is not a "Large" creature)"I am a Mighty Hill Giant, God among my people. From my great hight I can see for miles around. Except if someone tries to poke me with a bit of sharp metal, then i can no longer see over the treeline."
Personally, I'd consider the "seeing above the treeline" as one of the cosmetic aspect of the character. You are tall, therefore you can see above the other character next to you. I'm more concerned with the + attack bonus this and + AC that...
But if you read the premises of the tread, and are truly "mighty and a god among your people", not seeing above the treeline won't be much of an issue ;)
All these races, all these monsters, all these stats are just, well, stats; a bunch of numerical values that allows us to interact with the mechanics of the game. They come with a baggage of fluff, but they can easily be re-skinned.
Tempering with these numerical values in order to make balanced races of PCs can be a lot of fun, in some nerdy kind of way. The premise of this tread is (in part) to handwave this mathematical ballet of retrofitting monstrous races as PC races, and instead having fun in re-imagining things (in another nerdy kind of way).
This world without humans and other typical PC races would be an excellent excuse to create races. Simply, that wasn't the approach I was going for.
'findel
This is really cool. The extraordinary individuals thing sounds great to me.
One thing I'm wondering is why not allow players to choose the mechanics of a few of the bestiary races too? Goblins look balanced enough to me, for example, and a wide variety of options would help make a wider variety of creatures feel right.
I have another suggestion, but it's a little more out there: Replace some of the gold with a new resource called Mutation or Superiority or something. Let the players spend it on virtual magic items which change their bodies, lifting them further above the commoners.
A vampire might buy the power of flight, but rather than getting a cloak from a shop, he'd pay the cost with Superiority and learn to fly with any old cloak, so long as he's only using one effect in his cloak slot. A basilisk might develop natural eyes of doom, which he always has unless he blocks them out with an eye-slot item.
Even if you didn't want any particular monstrous powers, there would always be stuff to spend it on, like stat boosts and amulets of natural armour.
The Coastal Realms or Iranar
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Rocking! I have long had a city ruled by a Lamia 'council' that included a single medusae, but never thought to make an effective aristocracy of them.
A friend's game uses the RAW races as bases for 'animal' versions. Dwarves are badgers and wolverines, Elves are deer-folk, Half-Orcs are wolves, Gnomes are raccons, etc. Then he adds minor options to 'personalize' your character, the equivalent of traits. The core players are his kids and their friends, so the adventures are much less sanguine.
This is really cool. The extraordinary individuals thing sounds great to me.
One thing I'm wondering is why not allow players to choose the mechanics of a few of the bestiary races too? Goblins look balanced enough to me, for example, and a wide variety of options would help make a wider variety of creatures feel right.
Why not indeed...
If I was to DM such a game, I'd encourage the players to pick one of the core races but you are right, there are several humanoid races that are balanced enough to be played 'as is'.
Remember that an extraordinary individual does not necessarily means superior individual. A hill giant PC using a half-orc as a base race will be quite a few HD behind his peers until it fully 'matures' in a character class of its own.
When I first started this tread, I didn't want to bother with mechanics and rather focus on the 'what if' factor of having non-conventional PCs in non-conventional societies. But Pathfinder fans are tough nuts to crack, or I should rather say, Pathfinder players enjoy crushing tough nuts! For all its weaknesses, the d20 system (and by extension Pathfinder) is a powerful engine for creating your own crunch. There would be nothing wrong with each PC playing a custom race.
I have another suggestion, but it's a little more out there: Replace some of the gold with a new resource called Mutation or Superiority or something. Let the players spend it on virtual magic items which change their bodies, lifting them further above the commoners.
A vampire might buy the power of flight, but rather than getting a cloak from a shop, he'd pay the cost with Superiority and learn to fly with any old cloak, so long as he's only using one effect in his cloak slot. A basilisk might develop natural eyes of doom, which he always has unless he blocks them out with an eye-slot item.
Even if you didn't want any particular monstrous powers, there would always be stuff to spend it on, like stat boosts and amulets of natural armour.
'Balance-wise', that would be the best option. The giant PC would have to spend 4000 gold in training to get his badge of honour (a belt of giant strength +2), which wouldn't even have to be tied to the said item per say.
Another option would be to allow a few templates such as 'large' 'quadruped', 'flyer' etc that a player would have to purchase somehow. But as you mentioned, the tools are there; its for the PCs and GMs to use them intelligently, even if it requires some improvisation.
'findel
Personally, I'd consider the "seeing above the treeline" as one of the cosmetic aspect of the character. You are tall, therefore you can see above the other character next to you. I'm more concerned with the + attack bonus this and + AC that...But if you read the premises of the tread, and are truly "mighty and a god among your people", not seeing above the treeline won't be much of an issue ;)
All these races, all these monsters, all these stats are just, well, stats; a bunch of numerical values that allows us to interact with the mechanics of the game. They come with a baggage of fluff, but they can easily be re-skinned.
Tempering with these numerical values in order to make balanced races of PCs can be a lot of fun, in some nerdy kind of way. The premise of this tread is (in part) to handwave this mathematical ballet of retrofitting monstrous races as PC races, and instead having fun in re-imagining things (in another nerdy kind of way).
This world without humans and other typical PC races would be an excellent excuse to create races. Simply, that wasn't the approach I was going for.
'findel
I just think that trying to change those things just for combat is silly. The stats are there, just add PC levels, or start with monster levels. It is how most beasts are built. But all aspects of a characters size can come up in combat, being big or tiny can be important if you are in a big or tiny place. EX: seeing over trees is minor, what about stepping over tall objects? Or on enemy heads? Or reaching an enemy on a tall cliff. Do you want to have to deal with that kind of headache?
But you can simply allow those races as is. Some people do that without changing setting. Or make some new ones. Just save yourself the headache of dealing with two different sets of qualities and abilitys.
I just think that trying to change those things just for combat is silly. The stats are there, just add PC levels, or start with monster levels. It is how most beasts are built. But all aspects of a characters size can come up in combat, being big or tiny can be important if you are in a big or tiny place. EX: seeing over trees is minor, what about stepping over tall objects? Or on enemy heads? Or reaching an enemy on a tall cliff. Do you want to have to deal with that kind of headache?But you can simply allow those races as is. Some people do that without changing setting. Or make some new ones. Just save yourself the headache of dealing with two different sets of qualities and abilitys.
Well, to each his own I guess. For me, retrofitting a 15HD giant to be balanced with a 1 HD badger is a much bigger headache than improvising mainly cosmetic aspects of a character.
Monsters are mainly designed to be monsters, not player character races. This is something the designers have pointed-out on multiple occasion, and their translation in PC races isn't always smooth.
That being said, there are some abilities that have a bigger numerical impact on the mechanics of the game, and I'm still struggling to find a balanced way to grant those. Being large has a negligible numerical impact on seeing above the tree line, striding over a brook or reaching and object on the top shelf - these are usually handled with the GM narrative.
Large creatures are stronger, less dextrous, have a -1 to hit, a -1 to AC, and a +4 to their CMB IIRC. Of all of the above, the CMB adjustment is the hardest to fake - all the other are pretty negligible when you crunch the numbers (yes giants are strong, but mid level STR-based PC are usually just as strong, if not stronger, than your typical base type giant).
But the golden rule of houserules still applies here (as with any of my houserules); if if your players don't like it - don't use it. I would never impose anything to my players if they couldn't accept it. If I had you around my table and couldn't convince you of my ways, I'd have to come with another way of handling this whole issue.
'findel
I'm still convinced that using the 7 basic races as a base for all races is best for this campaign idea, but I understand that this is a rather personal opinion. Using monstrous races as published -or making custom races from scratch - would be an equally good alternative.
Yet as many have pointed out, the 7 basic races don't cover all bases. Suspension of disbelieve going only so far, some 'abilities' need to be addressed. My preferred option would be to simulate these abilities via virtual magic items.
Someone suggested that some 'monstrous' abilities could be simulated by with eidolon elvolutions. That isn't a bad idea either. I think that for the price of a feat, evolutions could be purchased.
In addition to the races, a character could take the quadruped serpentine option (king of like a template, need to see what to give them without overpowering the default bipeds).
I'm torn between making each feat granting a certain number of evolution points, or each feat granting one single evolution; something along the line of
From level 1-4, each feat allow for a 1-point evolution
From level 5-8, each feat allow for a 2-points evolution or lower.
From level 9-12, each feat allow for a 3-point evolution or lower.
From level 13-20, each feat allow for a 4-point evolution or lower.
'findel
As for, the basic races make good starting points. I suppose my main quibble with the idea is about space and reach. That is the crux of what im trying to get at.
Perusing the core book and bestiary has given me another idea. I have seen threads that turn a monster into a base class. The PC can gain levels in their monster type until they equal the base creature, then choose a PC class. Special abilities like natural Armour, Spell likes, and such would be spread across these levels, kinda like animal companions get stat and size boosts at certain levels.
given the example of a lizardman and a 15 HD giant:
At level 1 the Badger has a level of monsterous humanoid and the giant has a level of giant.
At level two the lizard man takes it's second level in Monsterous humanoid, it now equals a Bestiary monster in its abilitys. The giant gains another giant HD
At level 3 the lizardman takes a PC class, the giant gets another HD,
At level 15, the giant is now a match for its entry, and the lizardman has 13 PC levels.
At lv16 the giant takes a PC class.
An old method, that works best with as few monster HD as possible. It might help you expand into a few more monsters. But it sounds like what you are doing by equalizing the choices is gonna work best for you. It may be a good idea to limit to small and medium races unless a player makes a specific request.
-Brambleman
All this talk on the Advanced Race Guide reminded me of this tread...
Cyclopean City of Tirycenae
If one sails west of the Iranari Realms along the shores of the Cerulean sea, he will find the cyclopean city of Tirycenae.
The Tirycean enjoy fair weather all year long, except for a period of tropical storms in the fall that make commerce impractical for several weeks. During that time, the city is closed-off to strangers and the otherwise good-natured cyclops practice the bloody worship of their storm-god - a cyclop god of great size who riding a winged chariot pulled by two red-eyed juvenile roclings. This period of festivals usually starts with the execution of the prisoners who were sentenced to death (although not all law-breakers receive that sentence) and follows with equally morbid rituals for nearly six weeks, at which point the storm god departs until the next year’s storm season. It is told that this Storm-God was born and grew-up in this very city, supplanting the priests who ruled before him.
During the absence of the storm-god, the city is administered by the praetors: a council of elders who rule as proxies of their storm-king. The praetor perform civic duties only; religious duties are only practiced during the storm season by none other than the storm-god himself. No priest of the storm-god are know to exist, and cyclops who portray divine powers are usually executed by the storm-king. Godlings of other provenance are tolerated within the city as long as they do not stay in the city for more than a moon, and make no demonstration of their powers. Arcane practitioners are viewed with suspicion but are not persecuted (unless when they disturb the peace by demonstrating their powers). The art of potion-making is even praised within Tirycenae, and a few cyclops have themselves become talented potion-makers.
The twin birdlings of the the storm-king appear on the crimson shields of the cyclop’s soldiers, both as a symbol of their city-state and of their religious allegiance to their storm-god. Cyclopean soldiers wear bronze breasplates and helmets in battle and fight with heavy spears and broad blades using efficient group tactics. Luckily for their neighbours, the cyclops are too few to cause a real invasion threat, but efficiently hold their borders despite their lack of military architecture.
The city of Tirycenea itself is made almost entirely out of gigantic stone masonry, built on a high and narrow peninsula overlooking the sea. A mighty bridge lead to the detached tip of the peninsula where the priests of old used to have their temple. The island lays now in ruin since the battle between the priests and the storm-god, for the cyclops have lost the knowledge of building in the fashion of their forefathers. Long ago, the cyclops used to be taller and wiser in stonecraft, seacraft and starcraft. Much of their knowledge is now lost, and no traces of their civilisation remain outside their city. The cyclops live in a perpetual melancholy, as they are aware that they are dwindling in both civilisation and body.
The ruined temple island still serve as a place of worship during the storm season but are closed off by the praetorian guard for the rest of the year. Below the city lies the harbours. The cyclops themselves have a few small boats (for lack of timber to craft adequately large sea-going vessels) but receive a lot of commerce from other nations. The cyclops are poor swimmers but they walk with ease at the bottom of the bay, and the shark don’t seem to bother them. when the water gets too deep, the cyclops breath trough pipes or else carry large bronze bells to trap air over their head. Large shells, pearls, coral and the products of their orchards constitute the bulk of their exportation.
A small cult of diviners among the cyclops secretly worship the oracle and the priests of their old republic. They seek to bring back the oracle and the art of divination to lead their people to a new golden age or at the very least, a renaissance of their past...
On forsaken Gods, Outer Planes and Summon Monster spells...
As stated before, this world has no Gods as the default Forgotten Reamls / Golarion-like setting sees them: Gods are high level PCs and NPCs (especially clerics). At any cases, no (typical) gods seems to have any reach on that world, and non are worshiped by its inhabitants. This leads to some questioning about the link that this world has with the outer planes.
I think that this world suffers from a certain severance with the outer planes. Even to gods themselves, the outer planes are something very remote, strange and arcane. Back and forth traveling should be discouraged, making plane shift and similar spells an effect of the miracle/wish spell (or at the very least make it a 7th level spell for both wizards AND clerics).
Similarly, the summon monster spell would get a restricted use. I'd be tempted to keep it to elemental only, and to the celestial/fiendish creature that the PC has 'tamed'. At any case, I'd be tempted to keep angels and demons out of this world. Like good gods and evil gods, let the PCs and exceptional NPCs be this world's angels and fiends.
That being said, there wouldn't be anything wrong to re-skin an archon, demon or whatever into a secular being on that world. The Stinking Bogs inhabited by dretches and troglodytes? That could be cool...
'findel