Expanding upon existing rules


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Are there any existing rules that you would like to see expanded upon in Ultimate Magic or Ultimate Combat? What I mean is to see something that already exists getting some new usage.

For example, I'd like to see more rules concerning Bull Rush:

Pathfinder wrote:

You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack. You can only bull rush an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. A bull rush attempts to push an opponent straight back without doing any harm. If you do not have the Improved Bull Rush feat, or a similar ability, initiating a bull rush provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.

If your attack is successful, your target is pushed back 5 feet. For every 5 by which your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD you can push the target back an additional 5 feet. You can move with the target if you wish but you must have the available movement to do so. If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target.

I'd love to see some rules as to what happens to people when they reach a solid object after being Bull Rushed. Just having them stop doesn't seem drastic enough, does it? Something along the lines of the bull rusher dealing 1d6 damage + strength modifier + another 1d6 for every 5 by which his attack exceeded the opponent's CMD as long as he manages to push him into a solid object. The object could even take some damage as well, so if you overcame hardness and dealt enough damage you could be pushing an opponent through multiple walls!

Or some new usages to classic spells? What happens when an area that has been Greased comes into contact with fire? Having the grease catch fire and deal lighting creatures on fire would be awesome, but the grease would of course disappear after a round or two.

So, let's hear it, are there any rules we already have in the system that you'd like to see clarified or expanded upon? Nothing that requires new feats or spells or abilities, but something players would be able to use right away without changing their characters at all.


Definitely magic item creation (in Ultimate Magic). There are a lot of things about the whole procedure that are vague and need clarification and some things needing actual errata.

It would also be good to see Stealth get a rewrite (Ultimate Combat) for the same reasons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hobbun wrote:

Definitely magic item creation (in Ultimate Magic). There are a lot of things about the whole procedure that are vague and need clarification and some things needing actual errata.

It would also be good to see Stealth get a rewrite (Ultimate Combat) for the same reasons.

Magic Item creation is at most of peripheral interest to me as all of my Pathfinder play is in PFS and item creation is banned in that campaign.

But for home games the last thing I want to see is any rule that make magic item creation even more ridculously easy than it is now.


LazarX wrote:


Magic Item creation is at most of peripheral interest to me as all of my Pathfinder play is in PFS and item creation is banned in that campaign.

But for home games the last thing I want to see is any rule that make magic item creation even more ridculously easy than it is now.

Well, if it doesn’t work for you, then you don’t have to use it. But due to the large amount of threads about it, I am not the only one who feels this way.

Besides, where did I say to “make it easier” with the expanded rules? I just want to see the vague areas clarified where we aren’t seeing all of these threads on the matter.

Also, Sean has indicated magic item creation is supposed to be easy. Unless you are making items that you don’t have prerequisites for or that are well above your level.

Finally, as a reminder, in 3.5 you didn’t even make a roll. Doesn’t get any easier than that.


Also, on the subject of spells, I'd like to get some rules on what happens when you cast a Lightning Bolt underwater, or use electricity spells on bodies of water with creatures in them.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hobbun wrote:
LazarX wrote:


Magic Item creation is at most of peripheral interest to me as all of my Pathfinder play is in PFS and item creation is banned in that campaign.

But for home games the last thing I want to see is any rule that make magic item creation even more ridculously easy than it is now.

Well, if it doesn’t work for you, then you don’t have to use it. But due to the large amount of threads about it, I am not the only one who feels this way.

Besides, where did I say to “make it easier” with the expanded rules? I just want to see the vague areas clarified where we aren’t seeing all of these threads on the matter.

Also, Sean has indicated magic item creation is supposed to be easy. Unless you are making items that you don’t have prerequisites for or that are well above your level.

Finally, as a reminder, in 3.5 you didn’t even make a roll. Doesn’t get any easier than that.

What I mean by easy is having level 5 characters making items without rolls you should not see before level 12.


LazarX wrote:


What I mean by easy is having level 5 characters making items without rolls you should not see before level 12.

Yes, I understand. And I agree with you in that sense. However, as I indicated, my post in asking for expanded rules was not to make crafting easier, but to clarify the vague areas of the magic item creation rules and even give us the needed errata in some areas.

The same needs to be done with Stealth.


I am a huge fan of ranged characters. I enjoy building them and make them as diverse as possible. One feat that we have created is Ranged Skirmish and Improved Ranged Skirmish.

Ranged Skirmish allows me to apply skirmish damage from 30ft out.

Improved Ranged Skirmish extends that to 45ft.

When used in conjuction with Shot on the Run and a base movement of 40ft, 50ft soon, it allows me to move around the battlefield while still being effective. I can provide support and flanking and still get full use of my bow.

This also makes sure that I am not standing far out of range and thus included in the action. I get the added damage at the risk of being closer to the fight and thus a target of their rangers or spell casters.

This should be looked at to be included because they can be valuable tools when used correctly. They cost alot of prerequisites to get to, but are well worth it in battle.

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