In the coming weeks I may get the chance to play a 7th level character (epic point buy 25pts) with standard money for that level using the Core Book, APG and other official Golarion releases from Paizo.
I was thinking about playing an Oracle with the Heavens mystery to use its special trick of high powered illusion spells. That would mean playing either a Gnome for the higher DC or a human for the extra feat with a starting charisma of 18 or 20. I guess taking heighten spell feat for 'Color Spray' as well as possibly the spell focus (illusion) feats would be the way to go. And with the money, picking up a lesser metamagic rod of Widen would make sense.
My only concern is that this character would end up being too 1-dimensional in combat, essentially a 1 trick pony. Outside of combat the character could be interesting as the party spokesman with the high diplomacy checks but what else could the Oracle do in combat to make them a more rounded and enjoyable character to play?
He won't be an one trick pony. He will have a very good trick -- but he'll also have plenty of other things to do: like self buff to go into melee, summon monsters, etc.
If you want take two levels of barbarian and go rage prophet -- at higher levels you can add your Con Mod to the DC of spells you cast -- if you do this I would suggest the "lame" curse.
He won't be an one trick pony. He will have a very good trick -- but he'll also have plenty of other things to do: like self buff to go into melee, summon monsters, etc.
If you want take two levels of barbarian and go rage prophet -- at higher levels you can add your Con Mod to the DC of spells you cast -- if you do this I would suggest the "lame" curse.
Heavens Oracle + "lame" curse + Barbarian = the most ridiculous illusionist, and rage with no expense...
Considering you can turn rage on/off at will, and the lame curse negates the fatigue caused by rage, you suddenly have all of the benefits with none of the prices. Also, proficiency in martial weapons.
I recommend that you dump most of your feats on Extra Oracle Revelation (APG).
Even if you're a one-trick pony, that's a damn good trick!
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It's not even; like, your trick doesn't even take a spell from your list. You still have a full Oracle list of buffs and spells. But your 1 trick is there, and as a gnome should be pumping out DC 20 and 21 AE save-or-dies all day.
Also, rainbow bridge I'd a fantastic added bonus; nice setting up an area for people to rain arrows down; or block a doorway with one side (wall of force anyone?). And you have a +6 Mage armor.
Also, rainbow bridge I'd a fantastic added bonus; nice setting up an area for people to rain arrows down; or block a doorway with one side (wall of force anyone?).
..but can you remove/'drop' the wall of force or must you wait 24 hours O_O
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The beauty and the challenge of the Oracle class is finding 2-3 things your good at. Look at your skills, see what you can do. Heavens is not the best for this, but you have Perception and Knowledge Arcana which are useful. A level dip in Ranger might not also be a bad investment to open up more skills, improve your BaB and gain track.
You do not have any powers that might make you a stand out melee-er like Acrobatics or bluff so don't bother. Unless you're Multiclassing in Barbarian stay out of the front lines.
Buff, shoot, and use that one trick.
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For Kerney and others > the poster is referring to the Heaven Oracle that lowers all HD of monsters by their Cha; combined with Specialized Illusion
And Greater, pumps out DC 19 color sprays at level 3 that lower their HD by 5, and hypno patterns that effectively 0 out everyone's HD. And that's before stat items / leveling makes the bonuses even more obscene; gives them tons of AE save-or-dies vs living, intelligent creatures; while they still have a full spellbook of options for other scenarios.
Think:
Gnome oracle of heavens
Str: 5
Int: 7
Wis: 11
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Chr: 20
Feats: spell focus (illusion), greater, spell penetration, greater
You do not have any powers that might make you a stand out melee-er like Acrobatics or bluff so don't bother.
I don't agree with this. Any Oracle can choose from the Cleric buff spells like Divine Power and Righteous Might. Ok, a 7th level Oracle can't yet, but if the OP wants to make a melee capable Heavens Oracle, I think a human with a decent Str and Con could do fine. A Spear is an excellent simple weapon, doing damage in the same category as a number of martial weapons, and the morningstar isn't a bad choice either.
For Kerney and others > the poster is referring to the Heaven Oracle that lowers all HD of monsters by their Cha; combined with Specialized Illusion
And Greater, pumps out DC 19 color sprays at level 3 that lower their HD by 5, and hypno patterns that effectively 0 out everyone's HD. And that's before stat items / leveling makes the bonuses even more obscene; gives them tons of AE save-or-dies vs living, intelligent creatures; while they still have a full spellbook of options for other scenarios.Think:
Gnome oracle of heavens
Str: 5
Int: 7
Wis: 11
Dex: 12
Con: 18
Chr: 20
Feats: spell focus (illusion), greater, spell penetration, greater
I'm now wondering if the Heavens Oracle alone or Heavens Oracle + Rage Prophet is worth it from say lvl 8 onwards. Early levels Heavens is very potent as your CHA will be around +4 to +6. You need to drop the monster's HD to below 5 for Color Spray to be worthwile. Ability growth progresses very slowly so once you fight 11HD creatures, your signature spell is only going to stun for one round. That is not worth multi feat dipping. If you go into Rage Prophet, you can eventually add your Con to this which will make it worthwhile again for a couple of levels but there's probably 4 or so levels where your main strike weapon won't be effective. Am I missing something or is the Color Spray trick not effective at mid levels?
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I'm now wondering if the Heavens Oracle alone or Heavens Oracle + Rage Prophet is worth it from say lvl 8 onwards. Early levels Heavens is very potent as your CHA will be around +4 to +6. You need to drop the monster's HD to below 5 for Color Spray to be worthwile. Ability growth progresses very slowly so once you fight 11HD creatures, your signature spell is only going to stun for one round. That is not worth multi feat dipping. If you go into Rage Prophet, you can eventually add your Con to this which will make it worthwhile again for a couple of levels but there's probably 4 or so levels where your main strike weapon won't be effective. Am I missing something or is the Color Spray trick not effective at mid levels?
Well, not really; think about it like this... at 8th level, you will have advanced your Cha twice, and should have a +4 item. So, you're up to a 26 Cha, allowing you to remove 8. That will handle most things at that CR; where you start to get into problem is level 10. At that point, you're not using Color Spray; you're using Hypno Patter (which remember is subtracting 8 from each opponent and gets an average of about 15.5 HD worth of guys... or you can get one guy of up to 20 HD safely); and more importantly, Rainbow Pattern (which incidentally with our feat line has a DC 25 save). So you're no longer quite able to save or die area effect with a 1st level spell very often; it has to be a 2nd or 4th at that point.
Since CHA is the Oracle's singular ability score of concern, ramping it up as fast as possible is easy. As that bonus goes up, EHD go down. Eagle's Splendor is your friend, followed by the various grades of headbands.
Presuming you start with a "mere" 18 CHA at 1st, that color spay wipes the floor with anything up to 7 or 8 HD at least. Hypnotic Pattern (IIRC) and especially its big brother Rainbow Pattern can lasso vastly larger groups than the norm.
At about 8th level your CHA bonus is reasonably going to be a +7. Color spray can still take on susceptible foes as high as 12 HD.
12th should see a +8 or +9 bonus = 14 HD. Less useful, but by this point you can be shunting foes into the void, dropping comets on them and spewing mini-fireballs to go with the rainbow pattern that you've had since 8th or so. 15 HD foes counting as 7 or 8 HD means you don't take one of them out of the equation, you take 3 of them out.
At 16th you're at a +9 or a +10 bonus (4 start +2 advancement +3 enhancement). Your color spray, still a 1st level spell, can hose all the mini-onions with a brain that you run into (reducing HD by 10 is just nasty). You can tie up a trio of 18 HD critters, two 22 HD crittters or even a lone critter with up to 34 HD with your rainbow pattern. And if it fails to resist your pattern, you might be able to insta-kill it.
If not, cold, fire and comets await it!
Rage prophet is just ... nasty stuff. ^_^
I'm liking this thread; I've been hankering to try a Heavens Oracle. I do have some questions, though.
Are color spray, hypnotic pattern, and rainbow pattern the only spells of that type that an oracle/cleric has access to? Are there any others out there that I'm unaware of? Because while I think they are a potent trio, I was hoping for more variety.
About the Rage Prophet, is it worth it? I enjoy the concept of the prestige class, but is losing out on 5 caster levels (2 barbarian, and three for rage prophet) really worth it?
This thread makes me kind of sad; I'd love to play a Heavens Oracle, but hadn't even considered exploiting this "one trick" it has. I mean, sure, it's cool, but I was attracted to the idea of the Heavens Oracle because of things like, you know, hovering over the ground, being able to dispel lycanthropy with a touch, wearing a coat of stars, etc.
In other words... there is plenty to a class other than its most exploitable mechanical feature. I don't mean to hijack the thread with that sentiment, or provoke anyone, but it just amazes me that one could describe the Oracle, with any of the mysteries, as a one-trick pony. There's just so much cool stuff they get and can do!
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The direct answer to "is the rage prophet worth it"; probably not. It's losing lots of spells and abilities to add on a barbarian it can't really use and a class that largely sucks. The end result, the 14th level add DC to con, DOES end the campaign; at that point rainbow pattern should be DC 35-36; and you can drop in and out of rage every round if you take "lame" as your ability and use the gnome oracle bonus to improve your curse level a little. But it makes you much worse levels 5-13, so unless you're starting a power campaign near 14, I'd avoid it. With that said, your hypno pattern and color spray will be online by level 4, so one can argue you can milk those and make the sacrifice, but that is going to make you much more narrow.
As to heaven oracle -> I mean, seriously... They have great abilities (the night sky perception, rainbow bridge, armor)... Fighting lycanthrope is so narrow that unless your campaign is narrowly focused on that it won't do anything for you. Oracles can do a lot, and as I've said just because one of their tricks is so much stronger than the others doesn't make it their only trick; they still get a full compliment of buffs and heals and whatever just like any support Oracle.
This thread makes me kind of sad; I'd love to play a Heavens Oracle, but hadn't even considered exploiting this "one trick" it has. I mean, sure, it's cool, but I was attracted to the idea of the Heavens Oracle because of things like, you know, hovering over the ground, being able to dispel lycanthropy with a touch, wearing a coat of stars, etc.
In other words... there is plenty to a class other than its most exploitable mechanical feature. I don't mean to hijack the thread with that sentiment, or provoke anyone, but it just amazes me that one could describe the Oracle, with any of the mysteries, as a one-trick pony. There's just so much cool stuff they get and can do!
That's why I like the Heavens Oracle - they are decidedly not a one-trick pony, especially if you invest several lower-level feats into Extra Revelation. Free armor bonus for (x) hours/day, flitting around all day (the Dune fat-hovering BBEG thing), the bridge of stars ... tons of great stuff with the possibility of more in Ultimate Magic. What's not to love?
As far as [pattern] spells for the Oracle, I *think* that there are very few such spells in the game at all - and those from the CRB they have already received for free.
I've never thought to look in the APG to see if there are more - but then, they also have access to various forms of cold, electricity and fire damage from spell and revelation ...
Great character IMO ^_^
Well... With 7 in INT I think it's more a one trick donkey :p