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The following action is valid vs. a charge:
A character, seeing a charging lancer on the field, readies the action: "If the chager charges me, I step forward before he can attack me and attack him." The wording may vary, but the concept remains as possible in any game that allows movement to be interrupted mid-movement by a readied action. A less eggregious variation would be to ready an attack vs. an opponent that moves out of cover.
In the case of the lancer, this results in moving the character inside the donut range area of the charge, which seems eggregious and a case of gamesmanship. In particular, it appears to step on the toes of a braced weapon.
1) Is this action permitted by the rules? (I assume it is,which is why it is here instead of in the forum Rules discussions) Edit...please move to Rules Questions forum. *sigh*
2) If it is, is it desirable?
3) If it is seen as eggregious, does anyone have houserules to prevent and/or modify the attempted charge-nerf, such as a skill check or similar resource?
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1) You can ready a standard action, which doesn't cover "step forward and attack him". You could ready to make a single attack (if you have the reach to hit the square where a lancer can attack you, then he kills you with his charge attack) or ready to move up to prevent him charging (you don't attack that round, he still gets to hit you, or even full attack, and you're exposed in perfect position for all his buddies to surround you). The latter might be annoying, but hardly optimal.
You might be able to ready to counter-charge if you won initiative in a surprise round and had a weapon in hand, but not otherwise, as charge is a full-round action except in very specific cases. If a GM even allows this, it's a very tiny loophole.
If the lancer decides to target someone else (I've seen suggestions by others that a Sense Motive check should reveal that you're readying an action) you just lost your action for that round.
2) As should be clear, I can't see that this is particularly abusive or even beneficial to the ready-er.
3) As mentioned, give the lancer some means to figure out what the defender plans to do.
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You can ready a step (5-ft-step) along with a std. So, you can ready to step forward and attack. Having stepped forward, you are no inside the reach of the lance, so he can't attack you. Both replies so far appear to have missed this.
Irrelevant IMO.
All actions in a single round happen simultaneously and if you're out of range of the lance and then move to be inside the threatened area, you *must* have been within range at some point. I would simply rule that the lance attack happens at that point.
Regardless, I see no problem with readying an action to attack a lancer, but as the lance has reach he's still going to get his attack (unless you also have reach and are able to put him down with your attack; a Sunder attack seems particularly appropriate here!).
When you use a turn based system to model the real world, things that don't make sense happen. You occasionally need to apply rule 0.
In this case, I would rule the lance attack happens, then the readied attack. If the readied attack was a maneuver against the weapon (sunder, disarm), I would let that happen first then resolve the charge (assuming the character still had a usable weapon).
If the readied action was to get out of the way of the attack (by staying outside of threatened area, not by crossing into the doughnut hole) I would allow that to work. Spending your standard action to negate an attack from one opponent is unlikely to be the best strategy most of the time. Still, if the king (Aristocrat 1) ends up on a battlefield with no armor or weapons and 10th level enemies, that is probably exactly what he would try to do if he had capable allies and just needed to not be killed.
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You can ready a step (5-ft-step) along with a std. So, you can ready to step forward and attack. Having stepped forward, you are no inside the reach of the lance, so he can't attack you. Both replies so far appear to have missed this.
What's the ready condition in this case? "When the lancer attacks at the end of a charge"? The character would have to take his action, complete with 5-foot step, between the moment when the lancer arrived 10 feet away and the moment he made his attack. He's running at his target with his lance levelled in front of him. There is arguably no interval of time between his movement and his attack - they're one and the same motion - and if there was, the defender's movement towards the lancer would take him straight on to the point of the lance. Udalrich's suggestion seems to cover it.
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You can ready a step (5-ft-step) along with a std. So, you can ready to step forward and attack. Having stepped forward, you are no inside the reach of the lance, so he can't attack you. Both replies so far appear to have missed this.What's the ready condition in this case? "When the lancer attacks at the end of a charge"? The character would have to take his action, complete with 5-foot step, between the moment when the lancer arrived 10 feet away and the moment he made his attack. He's running at his target with his lance levelled in front of him. There is arguably no interval of time between his movement and his attack - they're one and the same motion - and if there was, the defender's movement towards the lancer would take him straight on to the point of the lance. Udalrich's suggestion seems to cover it.
The readied condition would be, "If the lancer moves to a space 10 feet from me."
BTW, I'm of the opinion that the action should not be accepted outright. It effectively is an attempt to exploit a perceived loophole in the rules that results from the turn based system's mapping of simultaneous actions into a strict order. I agree with the idea of the non-interval between the movement and the attack.
I've seen this trotted out on several occasions as a thought exercise, but I've only personally seen two people attempt it at the table.
Nope. The charger must make the attack from the first square he is able to. If you wait until the charger is 10 feet away you've waited too long, the attack goes off. If you step up before then he simply attacks you from where ever he is.
Since a charger can only move in a straight line, can you read an action to just Move out of the way horizontally?
You ready to move perpendicularly to whatever direction the charger goes, and once you've seen the charger move in that direction you move out of range because the charger can't change directions.
Does this work on preventing a charger from ever hitting you?
Since a charger can only move in a straight line, can you read an action to just Move out of the way horizontally?
You ready to move perpendicularly to whatever direction the charger goes, and once you've seen the charger move in that direction you move out of range because the charger can't change directions.
Does this work on preventing a charger from ever hitting you?
I would think it would work. You should be able to move up to your speed.
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Since a charger can only move in a straight line, can you read an action to just Move out of the way horizontally?
You ready to move perpendicularly to whatever direction the charger goes, and once you've seen the charger move in that direction you move out of range because the charger can't change directions.
Your readied action interrupts the action that triggers it, so if you readied against the charger making a charge, he would not have moved yet and could indeed change direction and charge at you in a different straight line.
It works better if you ready an action for him to charge more than X feet, X being his speed plus 10 feet. He moves his speed plus 5 feet, then your readied action goes off and you move. He can no longer continue in a straight line to get to you, nor can he move and attack instead. He can only call it a double move and take the remainder of his movement towards you.
Does this work on preventing a charger from ever hitting you?
It prevents you from ever hitting him as well. However, unless you have double the charger's speed, I'd answer no. With the tactics I described, he is most likely some distance less than his speed away from you at the start of round 2. edit: If you ready against a charge again, he doesn't charge, he just rides up and hits you. If you ready against him moving within reach of you, you get a single move and he gets up to a double move, so he will eventually catch you. If he's built his character in such a way that his damage is insignificant except on a charge, you can indeed shut down such an over-specialised one-trick pony.
My own Cavalier is kind of a mounted-charging one-trick pony (no pun intended) i terms of dealing damage, but I suppose that's why the Wheeling Charge feat exists...
Since a charger can only move in a straight line, can you read an action to just Move out of the way horizontally?
You ready to move perpendicularly to whatever direction the charger goes, and once you've seen the charger move in that direction you move out of range because the charger can't change directions.
Does this work on preventing a charger from ever hitting you?
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge.
I would say "not unless you ran behind something" If you want to get technical, there is no requirement that a charger actually move in a strait line: The strait line is inferred from moving from point A towards an opponent at point B. So long as a line from where they start to where they have to finish is clear, there is no requirement that the charger cannot curve with you as you move.
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I would say "not unless you ran behind something" If you want to get technical, there is no requirement that a charger actually move in a strait line: The strait line is inferred from moving from point A towards an opponent at point B. So long as a line from where they start to where they have to finish is clear, there is no requirement that the charger cannot curve with you as you move.
This is an interesting idea. You have to charge directly at your opponent, but "directly toward" is only straight if opponent is stationary.