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So, I was reminded once again at my game last night, how much I hate the spell Orb of Force (at least as a DM).
This spell is too good!
So they are fighting the corrupted ghaele and sword archons in the Spire of Long Shadows. Everything is going pretty good, then the Ultimate Magus finally whips out the OoF. Game over. Which is okay; they are supposed to win after all. However, they get to level up to 14 and his Sorcerer half gets to pick his 1 4th level spell (which he can cast like 4 or 5 times a day). Guess which spell he chooses?
So now he will be able to throw 5-7 of these bad boys a day. And I start looking at the endboss (a CR 17 spell weaver lich). Suddenly, this intimidating capstone to a rich module looks positively PC-bait. What might have been a 9-12 round slugfest, may now be a 1-3 round slaughter.
Let's face it, undead hit points suck. And a 10d6 ranged spell, that doesn't allow for a save or spell resistance will cut through those 112 hps quick. Even if he doesn't kill the thing in the first round or two; it will be too busy casting limited wishes for self-heals to be able to do anything remotely offensive. And unfortunately, there are really no defenses against unsavable force effects.
I'm thinking my best bet is to throw a couple of Swords of Kyuss in there to help with their Invocation of the Worm ability. That will distract at least a couple of the 6 PC's and help keep the lich's hp relevant for 3-4 rounds. Maybe I can get off a maze or two, and a couple of enervations. I'm also seriously thinking of respec-ing some of the lich's spells to use a few Spell Compendium/BOVD spells myself.
Wizard may not like Oof as much when I hurl a couple of them his way.
What really hurts me in this group is that they have two divine healers (one of which is actually a Healer [the class]). It's very hard to kill or incapacitate a character in this group!
Yes, if the PCs use spell compendium, you should too. This sounds alot like my group that I am currently dming in AoW. Definitely give Makar a knight mook or two. Also, vs party casters I prefer to use prismatic spray/ray and-or wrack. Then maze the clerics and fighters for the win.
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1) Globe of Invulnerability should work against normal Orbs of Force (not Heightened ones, 'though). (NOTE: Globe of Invulnerability will preclude a lot of the below stuff, such as Mirror Image, Blur, False Life, (Deeper) Darkness and Displacement!)
2) Spell Turning can reflect one or two 4th level spells, perhaps three if Empowered (if the lich is powerful enough to cast 9th level spells).
Both are sensible defenses to throw up even for a high-level spellcaster who *hasn't* scryed the incoming threat.
3) Project Image can also allow someone to avoid the initial 'alpha strike' blast of this sort, such as an Orb of Force, Scorching/Seeking Ray or Magic Missile specialist.
4) Mirror Image also soaks up a few attacks before falling down, if the opponent isn't able to see through the illusion. A Quickened Mirror Image could replace lost images with a new spell, if it's working well (and remain uncast if the foes weren't impeded by the first casting).
5) Since Orb of Force requires an attack roll to hit, effects that inflict a miss chance, such as Blur and Displacement (or simply granting oneself cover / concealment through effects like Obscuring Mist or Deeper Darkness) can also reduce or eliminate much of the danger. Other effects that block line of sight or line of effect (such as the aforementioned Project Image) could be useful here.
Check if they can be stacked. A 50% miss chance from Displacement followed by another 20% miss chance from Blur (and then possibly hitting a Mirror Image or Project an Image anyway!) could be brutal, as each incoming spell / attack has to run a gauntlet to find the real opponent.
6) If they have time to prepare, and are aware that the party has been blowing away their minions with Orbs of Force, more specialized defenses could be prepared, such as a Brooch of Shielding variant that protects not just against Magic Missile force damage, but also against Orb of Force damage (or Orb of Force damage *instead* of Magic Missile damage). (Still only 101 pts worth of protection, but not shabby for 1500+ gp.)
7) Another way to temporarily buff hit points would be to cast False Life before the combat, and have a Quickened False Life (or several) ready for later use, to partially ablate incoming Orb of Force (or other) damage.
8) Another specific preparation might be to recruit (or create, via Simulacrum) a minion whose sole job it is to Counterspell Orbs of Force directed at the boss-man. (With Simulacrum, the minion standing ready to counterspell Orb of Force could even be a half-strength copy of the PC himself!)
9) Summoning (or Planar Binding) one or more outsiders capable of casting (Greater) Dispel Magic and having it/them stand Ready to counterspell incoming magic can also work here, and could be much more generally useful, not just against Orbs of Force. (Summon VII - Avoral or Babau, (Greater) Planar Bind - Astra Deva, Planetar, Babau, Glabrezu, Nalfashnee, Pit Fiend, Ghaele, Avoral.) A pair of Planar Bound Babau (or, if this bad-guy prefers corrupted / fallen celestials, as suggested above, tainted Avorals) could stand ready to attempt to counterspell incoming threats against the boss-man.
Although, for someone able to cast Greater Planar Binding, there's a certain amount of weighty brass balls to the tactic of calling up and binding a Pit Fiend to serve as your Counterspeller...
9) Spell Immunity is sadly useless for this, since it's only useful against spells with Spell Resistance.
Most of these options (save for the specific Orb of Force counterspellers made via Simulacrum, and the specific Brooch of Shielding variant) work well as defenses against a lot of stuff, and wouldn't seem unreasonable as defenses on a wizardly foe who has no idea Orbs of Force are incoming.
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But but, who said you should allow your players acces to every sourcebook? Surely, you can just say no to either the Spell Compendium or to the Orb of Force?
I wish my players would had orb of force so my AoW AP didnt have ended in TPK i HoHR, AoW is VERY difficult as it is, if you add up to the challenge then dont end surprised when the deaths start to appear, and this migth surprise some people but PC deaths arent a good thing.
So was the thing with the banning, you see a problem and your only answer is banning, thats too common for many DM. Dont use yourself splatbooks, be lazy, be impatient to end each combat in a near TPK debacle, put your treasured NPCs above the PC wich are the protagonists...those are the signals of a bad DM, at least the opener clarified that:
Game over. Which is okay; they are supposed to win after all.
Glad to hear that, sometimes I wonder if some DM really understand this.
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Ray Deflection,
Abjuration, Wizard/Sorcerer 4, Spell Compendium. Blocks ranged touch attacks. Not just rays, all ranged touch attacks.
Use sparingly. but enjoy.
Cool! I was planning on combing the SC for any possible spell that could block/lessen the effects of a force spell, and this is even better!
Unfort the displacement/blur idea above (and they don't stack) wouldn't work since he almost always has true seeing going.
And no, I don't like banning/limiting books. In some ways, his Ultimate Magus is gimped, because he is WAY behind where an equivalent pure wizard would be on spell power. He just hit 14th level and the highest level spell he has is 5th level (on the wizard side).
And AOW is a tough slog for the most part; I haven't had to turn to the splat books myself, because the party has been struggling at times to stay alive through the AOW gauntlet. They actually failed to save Waterdeep (by one round and 6 hp on the ulgarasta) and up to this point things have been pretty well balanced.
But all good suggestions; I appreciate them all!
thanks for the great spell idea, my party lacks a cleric or druid or any type of healer so level or ability draining undead were a serious concern but now with OoF we should be able to handle them nicely.
We get all our healing from belts and wands and 3 out of 4 of us are wizards or psionic variants with one fighter as a meat sheild.
Again thanks for the Orb of Force I'm going to add that to my spellbook asap.
Abject lesson here. If you allow crap from 3.5 into a Pathfinder game, you'll undo the fixes that Pathfinder brought to D20. While you can counter with the same stuff as a DM... is the war of munchkin tricks really the campaign you want to run?
I am not so sure about that I can't really comment about it since we are still playing 3.5. My group see's no reason to convert to pathfinder, we support pazio's efforts( as my orders will attest to) as best we can but why change a game system that were happy with.
But but, who said you should allow your players acces to every sourcebook? Surely, you can just say no to either the Spell Compendium or to the Orb of Force?
Game over. Which is okay; they are supposed to win after all.Glad to hear that, sometimes I wonder if some DM really understand this.
GMs understand this - and the corresponding caveat that goes with victory " No risk, no reward".
And when I play, if I have no risk, the reward is very sour-tasting indeed.
Don't forget the abjuration spell Forceward from page 98 of the Spell Compendium. Check it out.
Two words: displacer beasts. While there are alot of really good suggestions in this thread (and I highly recommend alot of them), no one has mentioned the true bane of magic missile (and by extension Orb of Force).
Abject lesson here. If you allow crap from 3.5 into a Pathfinder game, you'll undo the fixes that Pathfinder brought to D20. While you can counter with the same stuff as a DM... is the war of munchkin tricks really the campaign you want to run?
Wasn't Age of Worms still a 3.5 adventure path? It wasn't Pathfinder last I saw.
just a quick post in praise of Ord of Force.
When a 9th level party is fighting a 32AC flying blue dragon and the fighters are sitting on their buts not even trying to attack spells like Orb of Force and the psions astral constructs were the only way we survived the modules end.
We only lost one party member but the other two fighters came very close to dieing.
When all other spells fizzle because of magic resistance being too high, when melle attacks are 20 to hit ONLY, then spells like orb of force save the day.