An E6 game with the slow progression, I think, would give many of the low-magic fans exactly what they're looking for.E6 is probably the easiest solution, but not necessarily the best solution for all gaming groups and definitely not the only solution.
I for one, prefer the "sweet-spot" of level 5-12, for many reasons which are too numerous to elaborate here. The sad part (for me) is that E6 plays below that "sweet-spot" and not only gives a low-magic feel but a low fantasy feel as well.
There are many ways of playing low-magic, or at least lower magic than default, without capping everything at level 6th. A DM with a good understanding of the rules and the impact of abilities (or lack thereof) in the challenging factor of an encounter can make it work relatively easily with minimal or no houserules at all.
A DM must be consistent with its own rules; if for example no magic items are allowed, a balor would be a ridiculous encounter even for the appropriate CR. Consistently, balors are less likely to be summoned or gate in a low-magic setting. They would likely exist as some kind of undefeatable enemy, perhaps with equal status to lesser Chtulhu mythos gods. A similar treatment would need to be ad-hocked for flying creatures, creatures with DR etc...
However, there are no "official" guide to medium-magic setting and low-magic setting. If there was one product from Paizo or a 3rd party I'd buy, that would be it. I'm less interested with the typical "play game X instead" comment.
'findel
Very understandable. For the record, even the E6 guidelines say they're just guidelines. An E8, E12, or similar is more than reasonable. Likewise, a good GM can indeed keep stuff challenging. My only thing in low-magic campaigns is - like you said - they tend to be low fantasy as well. When magic isn't very common, then encounters tend to boil down to slug-fests, and you have to be more careful when setting stuff up.
It can be done. It's just I've seen so many people do it so badly that I cannot help but cringe when I hear people talking about wanting to run a "low-magic" campaign, which is usually code for "I'm a weak/bad GM and instead of working on that, I'm just not going to let players have stuff". I wouldn't mind playing in a good one either, but I'd miss my toys (especially if playing a fighter - all he's got is toys).
^_^
There are many ways of playing low-magic, or at least lower magic than default, without capping everything at level 6th. A DM with a good understanding of the rules and the impact of abilities (or lack thereof) in the challenging factor of an encounter can make it work relatively easily with minimal or no houserules at all.
+1. The changes you have to make in a low-magic campaing are indeed minimal below 10th level (slow progression and low wealth for the PCs won't break the game if you use encounters with lower CR), but I think that the others are right, they convinced me that it will become harder to balance the game at higher level. It will still be easy the use encounters with lower CR (maybe CR -2 or -3 instead of -1), but the balance between casters and non-casters will be heavily broken. The change you will have to make (only if there's casters in your group) will be more important. Maybe you could house-rule that spells of level 4 to 6 take 2 full round actions to cast and spell of level 7 to 9 would take 3 full round actions ? Maybe you could house-rule that casters can only have 1 summoned creature at a time (like the summoner from APG). I'm just throwing some crazy ideas, because I don't know really, I'm not a specialist at running high level campaing (I did so only once with medium-magic). I do know that lower magic works well at lower levels and that it can be a lot of fun if done well.
I do agree that a cap at level 6 is very annoying. Where's the fun if you'll never be able to cast telekinesis ? :)
Sutff.
Well, I'm DMing a low-magic campaing with slow-progression where the PCs have something like 50% less wealth, but the fighter still got some toys to play with !
He's level 5, and he has:
-A masterwok cold iron long sword called Redemption
-A masterwork fire-shaped warhammer that does +1 fire damage (but not magical) called Basalt
-A +1 breastplate called Bravery, enchanted by a wizard NPC as a reward for a quest.
-The Brute's Gauntlets (from Magic Items Compendium).
That's all I think. No random +1 magic ring or +1 magic cloak or +2 magic gauntlets or +1 magic weapon. That's not a big deal because the only monsters with DR the PCs have fought were some gricks and a half-fiend (durzagon), both quite weak.
Less magic items means more time to customize them, to give them a background and a sense or rarity.
Of course if you play with a GM that don't want to give you any stuff, that's lame and I understand your fear of low-magic campaing. I once played a 5th level wizard without any masterwork gears, so you can forget about any magical items, and that was pretty weak. Bad GM. Bad, bad GM. :P
Very understandable. For the record, even the E6 guidelines say they're just guidelines. An E8, E12, or similar is more than reasonable. Likewise, a good GM can indeed keep stuff challenging. My only thing in low-magic campaigns is - like you said - they tend to be low fantasy as well. When magic isn't very common, then encounters tend to boil down to slug-fests, and you have to be more careful when setting stuff up.
It can be done. It's just I've seen so many people do it so badly that I cannot help but cringe when I hear people talking about wanting to run a "low-magic" campaign, which is usually code for "I'm a weak/bad GM and instead of working on that, I'm just not going to let players have stuff". I wouldn't mind playing in a good one either, but I'd miss my toys (especially if playing a fighter - all he's got is toys).
^_^
True!
Personally, I'm all for the fighter to have his toys, but it starts to irk me when the fighter has so much toys he doesn't know which one to play with... so to speak.
Remember the rich kid at school who had all the toys? Everyone envied him, but secretly, he envied the way we became attached to the few toys we had.
In similar ways, I'm not a fan of the "all-eggs-in-one-basket" sword of doom that a PC had custom-made using ALL of its wealth, making every single magic items look pathetic in comparison.
'findel
Well, I'm DMing a low-magic campaing with slow-progression where the PCs have something like 50% less wealth, but the fighter still got some toys to play with !He's level 5, and he has:
-A masterwok cold iron long sword called Redemption
-A masterwork fire-shaped warhammer that does +1 fire damage (but not magical) called Basalt
-A +1 breastplate called Bravery, enchanted by a wizard NPC as a reward for a quest.
-The Brute's Gauntlets (from Magic Items Compendium).That's all I think. No random +1 magic ring or +1 magic cloak or +2 magic gauntlets or +1 magic weapon. That's not a big deal because the only monsters with DR the PCs have fought were some gricks and a half-fiend (durzagon), both quite weak.
Less magic items means more time to customize them, to give them a background and a sense or rarity.
I'm very fond of items that have little 1/day abilities, and it's even a simple way to have some magic items without them bogging down the game. For example, a masterwork sword that once per day can cast magic weapon on itself is about 660 gp plus the cost of the weapon. Such a weapon is very handy and precious to a low-level character. It's very light on the WBL scale, and by speaking the magic word then it releases its true power - allowing it to slay magical beings (but only for about an hour).
Little abilities like that are very flavorful. As I noted in my original post, an item (doesn't have to be a weapon or armor) that does something a little special in addition to it's basic ability is lots of fun. If you keep them to x/day you can keep them inexpensive and something you will only use when you think it's a good idea.
True!
Personally, I'm all for the fighter to have his toys, but it starts to irk me when the fighter has so much toys he doesn't know which one to play with... so to speak.
Remember the rich kid at school who had all the toys? Everyone envied him, but secretly, he envied the way we became attached to the few toys we had.
In similar ways, I'm not a fan of the "all-eggs-in-one-basket" sword of doom that a PC had custom-made using ALL of its wealth, making every single magic items look pathetic in comparison.
Actually, with every fighter I've ever played, I liked the little toys. When commissioning magical gear - or with master craftsman - I would use simple magic items to get a few extra options that helped me round out being a fighter. I loved designing the items (not just mechanically but their appearance, odd features, etc) and would carry around an adventurer's assortment (AKA golf-bag) of goodies. ^.^
Most of my fighters will have a pair of gauntlets (one slashing, one bludgeoning), a reach weapon (I like glaives), and sometimes a sword & board option (like a flail and a heavy shield), and usually a solid ranged weapon (like a longbow) and a sling (for chucking random stuff, including vials of acid). I'll grab a few potions/oils of magic weapon and align weapon for a rainy day. It's not uncommon to see me using primarily masterwork items up until 6th-8th level, and using x/day items of magic weapon or greater magic weapon on an "enchanted whetstone" or similar.
Defensively, I try to keep my basis covered. Energy resistances are nice, so a potion of resist energy isn't bad. If we have casters in the party, I'll use my treasure to buy scrolls, partially charged wands, or x/day wands to cast on each other. If I can get a few x/day or permanent enchantments on my armors, I'll do that too. A few staples are continual protection from evil which can be added to an armor for +4000 gp, and much later, freedom of movement is a good option for 1-2/day.
I'm also prone to keep odd items I find, even if I have something that's seemingly better. You never know when you might be able to use that feather token or luck blade. Once in a game I was running, there was a life-drinker found as random treasure, and it's basically a 40k +1 greataxe that deals 2 negative levels per hit, but also inflicts a negative level on the wielder each hit. My group thought it was quirky, and carried it with them on adventures - even though by their level (16th+) it was generally worse than their gear. But they actually defeated the end boss (a huge evil outsider with a ton of racial HD and a lot of "don't die" abilities) because they decided to use that quirky axe instead of the +3 holy demonbane sword they party's main warrior was using. The party's healer goes "Wait, the axe!" and casts death ward on the party's fighter, who then proceeds to devour the outsider's levels (and inflicting huge penalties to his attack rolls, saving throws, checks, and spell resistance), allowing them to defeat him.
I have never found myself playing a fighter-type that I had too many toys to play with. ^.^;;