You guys might want to check out the Midnight Campaign Setting for some pretty neat ideas on making magic items special.
I put up a blog post about this issue recently:
http://landonsgametheory.blogspot.com/2010/10/magic-of-money-or-vice-versa. html
I've also spent some time with the 3.5 "generic PCs," looking at what kinds of bonuses they get through their advancement, in an effort to see what I would need to hand out to the PCs in order to keep them adequately geared for CRs, as calculated, if I took away all or most of the magic.
I could not disagree more with your above statements. First of all.. the comment about the person being five.. makes me want to ask the same of you.
It wasn't a nice comment, I agree...but neither is telling someone "You're doing it wrong." There is no wrong. If you think there is, and you feel the need to say so on the boards, then I feel fine making the assumption that you have the maturity of, say, a five-year-old.
Either way though. I disagree that the "default" is a magic item heavy loadout as you say it is. The player and GM should choose to play that way, not the book choosing for them.
You can disagree all you like...but that does not change the fact that the CR system assumes that PCs have a certain amount of boosting magic items. Characters that are under-equipped will have a hard time facing opponents if they're not equipped to that standard. This is why I referred to it as the "default". You don't have to play that way, and *I* certainly won't judge you if you don't, but you'll have to change the way you build encounters to maintain balance...whether you give more magic or less.
Each and every group has a different dynamic then another one. Each has their own way of playing despite the rules in the Pathfinder book.
Some people choose to play magic item heavy other choose to go the route where it is considered a privilege to get one throughout almost the entire game. This is the way THEY choose to play.
Yeah. I don't have a problem with that. I think people should play the game they want to play...and this is why I wondered at the maturity of someone telling the OP he was playing the game "wrong".
I think maybe you disagree with me less than you think. :)
M
4e's fix isn't the new item system in Essentials, it's the inherent bonuses from DMG2 - something I really wish ALL editions had. It lets you give your characters incremental bonuses to AC, their saves, attack, etc, etc, which then frees up magic items to be 100% for "cool stuff."
I remember my first magic item I ever received; it was a +1 Sword of Wounding broadsword in 1st Edition. It was awesome! I was playing a Fighter 3 / Magic-User 2 (can’t really remember) and I thought it was the best thing ever created. Now, it seems that magic items are considered a requirement and a right. To me this has taken away from the majesty of the game.
For me to fix this in my games, I have made it so that the knowledge of making major magical items has been lost. Most of my mid level items are based off of Weapons of Legacy, they scale in power but more focused on intended use. Players can only gain higher level magic items through adventuring or through recovering lost knowledge or materials through a quest type format. The magic is out there, but it has to be found.My questions to the boards are:
1. Does anyone else see this in a similar light?
2. If so, what are you doing to bring back the Majesty of a +1 Wounding Broad Sword?
I agree with other posters about video games and one-uping being a large part of culprit in this. i don't agree with just because curtain CR monsters have curtain immunities that that makes magic items lose there luster because everyone needs them. yes you may need them unless you manipulate CR but just because you need them and have them it doesn't necessarily make them less special. A good GM plays a large part in making magical items special as do players in expecting to buy whatever they want.
1)i do as well
2) Ross Byers link was a good start-story goes a long way and some good points were made. If you use a good amount of magic items in your game don't try and make all items special, the ones that are will stand out. just because Gandolf had a magic staff doesn't nessasarily mean he had no other magical items, it's just his staff was special.
1: in my campaign i don't cater to players wishes with a "magic-mart" everywhere or have everything they want. im actually one of the rarer GM's who favors players making there own magic items. i feel ones crafted by there own hands have more meaning to them than ones bought at magic mart.
2: I use slow level progression which it seems many avoid. this has some benefits to keeping magic items less rampant. first off, characters weaker items are useful a lot longer and they don't have the constant need to "upgrade" all the time as they don't face stronger CR encounters as fast.
3: I use specific components or qualifications to reduce item creation time,cost, or both- such as red dragon scales to make fire resistant armor or the weapon must have slain a giant "giant bane". combined with the slow path it allows the players time to get in quests to quest for curtain items or materials needed without leveling past the adventure meant for there level. So when they do finally get to make the item it's still level appropriate and the item forever holds meaning.
4: i allow magic items to be made while adventuring and components and qualifications eliminate the standard time to create magic items. for example; the fighter has slain a giant with his sword the-party mage is able to enchant the blade in a matter of hours into a giant bane. this allows the party to craft magic items in ALL adventures and campaigns as most adventures and aps don't allow players adequate time to do so-so they head to magic mart!
5: i adjust treasure found to suit the party. treasure in apps and adventures are changed to what i think the party will use or want, but only in the same value. example: BBEG has a +1 polearm but no one in the party uses 2handed weapons except the fighter who has weapon focus greatsword, so the BBEG has a +1 greatsword. This reduces unwanted magical items and rushing off to the magic mart to sell items not desired and buying ones that are.
6: i like using "special materials". for instance dragon armor that is scale mail +2 but was made from a dragon and not enchanted but functions in all regards to +2. or a sword of an unknown alloy that functions as if it had a +1 enhancement. A necklace made from the hair of a nymph given as a gift that grants a +2 enhancement to charisma.
7: i discount adding magical properties to already magical items, this rewards players to keep items they have and to make them stronger than buying tons of weaker magical items. while eventually if they go this route they overshoot there level appropriate gear it keeps magic items special and makes them more so. If your goal is to make magic items more special I would rather have a character be over his quota in price with 3 magic items than running around with every slot filled with minor items glowing like an x-mas tree! Plus i get to add more story to the already special magical item and send the party on quests!
example- the players go to banon there old time friend and favorite NPC item crafter and sage. player- "greetings banon we just got back from an old stronghold and have quite a bit of gold. what magic items do you have that you can part with today old friend?" Banon-" oh im sorry friends i haven't any new magic items to part with you were here only 3 weeks ago." remember i don't cater to the players with a all you can buy magic mart! ;) banon-"hey that's a fine blade your got there can i see that!?" player "this blade? sure, i enchanted it myself after i after it tasted giants blood. i call it KneeBreaker and it has developed quite a taste for giants blood!". The sword was a +1 sword the player found during his earlier adventures that i changed from a +1 mace to suite his character, so he kept it. He actually enchanted the sword to Giant Bane after he slew a giant in the stronghold the previous adventure after the party rested and we started a new gaming session. Banon examining the blade " you know i heard the fishermen of southport are having trouble with giant electric eels in Lake Torshoon and some of my components have been running low as of late because of it. Kneebreaker seems mighty willing to except magic and i if i could get my hands on some of those eels they would make a good spell component and would substitute well some of things im lacking. I could put a little more ZAP in that blade and wouldn't have to buy costly local components so i could do it for a fraction of the cost. just be careful the lake is known for pirates as well". The players get all googly eyed at the mention of a discount.
This encounter lets the players know they can use the eels to enchant something to do with shock or protect against it and they can enchant it themselves if they wish. gives them a quest. AND i get to tie in a pirate adventure i had planned anyway.
i think if a party enjoys a hole quest around getting that magic item they will forever remember it and its not just an everyday +1 shocking sword. also its a lot more enjoying than just going to magic mart to buy one...