Other Agathions?

[Robert Ranting]

Despite not making an appearance in Bestiary 1, Pathfinder products have specifically referenced the leonal, avoral and vulpinal agathions. I assume that these three at least will probably feature in Bestiary 2, but I wonder if this is meant to be an exclusive list, or if there are other types of agathion planned for inclusion in the Pathfinder rules?

While 3.5 had the cervidal, lupinal, equinal, ursinal and musteval, none of these creatures were made open content. This presents something of a problem for anyone trying to design new OGL agathions as replacements, especially since there is an obvious naming scheme at work. After all, what do you call a bear agathion but an ursinal? An ursal? Is that different enough to avoid legal issues? Would it be too confusing to call them vanara, since from what I can tell, the vanara of Hindu mythology could have either bear or monkey heads? Or are vanara just not really appropriate at neutral good outsiders thematically?

So I guess the question is...are there other kind of agathions we might expect to see from Paizo, and what kinds of animals would they resemble? My personal preference would be to see one for each of the animal themed buff spells (leonal= cat's grace, avoral= owl's wisdom and eagle's splendor, vulpinal= fox's cunning, ursal= bear's endurance, bovinal= bull's strength). I might suggest making the "bear" agathion a panda, but the scientific name for pandas, Ailuropoda means "cat foot", which could cause confusion. Not to mention the issues this might cause since Pathfinder books are printed in China, which has some strict policies on the depiction of pandas or panda-like creatures in the media, if I recall correctly.

So to my fellow gamers, what kind of agathions would you like to see, and what should they be called?

To the Paizo staff, if you have the time and inclination, what kinds of agathions can we expect?

[Gorbacz]

Bear agathions could be called Arktonals (Arktos = bear in Greek)

[Robert Ranting]

Gorbacz wrote:

Bear agathions could be called Arktonals (Arktos = bear in Greek)

Well, there we go. I vote for Arktonal and Bovinal then.

Any other suggestions?

[hida_jiremi]

Personally, I'd like to see bradynals (bradys = sloth), corvinals (corvus = raven or crow), hipponals (hippos = horse), and mysinals (mys = mouse). Of these, the only one that I'm actually serious about are corvinals, bevause raven agathions would be freaking awesome. =D

Jeremy Puckett

[Kvantum]

I've statted out camelopardinals, to serve as guardians for the savannahs of Garund. We've already had equinals before, though, so hipponals may not be the right way to go.

[Set]

Just don't confuse the batrachanals (frog agathions) with bachanals (wine-soaked orgies). That way lies madness.

Corvinals sound neat. Animals that aren't as commonly associated with 'good,' like crows, definitely could be cool.

I'd skip Bovinals, just because they'd look too much like minotaurs.

Other animals that might be fun to play with;

Fox
Lynx or Bobcat
Salmon or Carp
Dolphin
Rattlesnake or non-venomous snake (like a black snake or king snake)
Whale!
Owl
Hummingbird?
some sort of insect? Butterfly? Mantis? Honeybee?

Since Golarion is also going to have Rakshasa with animal heads other than 'tiger,' I guess it would be useful to make sure that any Agathion is quite a bit differently shaped, like an Avoral, to help make a visual distinction.

[KaeYoss]

Robert Ranting wrote:

After all, what do you call a bear agathion but an ursinal? An ursal? Is that different enough to avoid legal issues?

I'd say that ursinal would be perfectly legal. Avoral and leonal are in the SRD, and they establish the naming scheme: Latin word for the type of animal (or even English adjective for this animal) followed by -al or a variation thereof.

Lion - leonal (from panthera leo, leonine)
Bird - avoral (from avis)

It's only logical that to follow with stuff like ursinal (frome ursidae or ursine, which means bearlike).

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Set wrote:

Just don't confuse the batrachanals (frog agathions) with bachanals (wine-soaked orgies). That way lies a chaotically awesome party.

FTFY. Us slaadi think batrachanals throw some of the best bachanals!

[Lyrax]

They are good parties, but I assure you that the azadas attend these events far more than do the agathions.

[Mark Moreland]

Perceptive fans may be able to name at least one other Agathion that will appear in the Bestiary 2, though they may have to describe it rather than use its proper name, as that hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, been revealed yet.

[Steven Purcell]

I've always liked the Agathions and there might be ways to get certain ones in that would not cause potential legal issues (small though such might be). For a wolf-like agathion call it a Lycanal or Lycaenal; Lyca- or Lycae- meaning wolf (see werewolf, Lycaenops), Arktonal works for a bear-like agathion, I'm thirding the Corvinal recommendation, Delphinal for a dolphin-like agathion (although it's possible that one has already been covered if some of the art previews are any indication), Gulonal for a wolverine-like agathion, Tigrinal (who says tiger-like outsiders are all evil?) and a number of ideas Set put forward sound good as well. Although fox has already been done see Vulpinal in The Great Beyond. Maybe the Alcinal, moose-like agathion could work. Camelopardinal (giraffe-like) just sounds crazy yet awesome. Maybe the Octopinal, an octopus-based one. Also for a small cat-like agathio, the name Ailuronal would probably work a bit better than Felinal, although Lynxinal could work depending on the creature as well.

[Steven Purcell]

Hmm just had a thought. What about dinosaur like agathions? The Tyrannal, the Triceranal, the Pterodal, the Deinonychal, the Ankylonal, etc. Just throwing the idea out there.