So I'm expanding the spell list for the Summoner in my games, pouring through each spell from the Spell Compendium, PHB2, Complete Book of Eldritch Might, Complete Mage, and a few others.
Now, I can see a repetitive theme going on. Spells that grant the summoner some protection, can enhance their eidolon and summoned creatures, conjuration spells, conjuration (creation) spells, teleportation, interdimensional, planar spells, a little bit of misdirection and physical enhancements.
Now I do not see anything that actually deals damage. Clearly not a "magic blaster" type. But then I see something whacky like Aqueous Orb. Ok, it's a Conjuration (Creation), fine. There's not many of those that deal damage. But then, why didn't it receive Acid Arrow as a spell? That's Conjuration (Creation). Which points out another whacky one, Acid Splash at 0-level. An acid spell, Conjuration...but no Acid Arrow spell?
Then I see one wayyyyy at 6th-level...Incendiary Cloud. What!? Just when I thought it didn't really receive any "cloud/fog/mist" conjuration spells, I see this thing pop out of no where!
James, someone...anyone...explain to me this process of choosing Summoner spells. I'd like to know if those were mistakes or was the Summoner intended to have more Conjuration damaging spells?
So I'm expanding the spell list for the Summoner in my games, pouring through each spell from the Spell Compendium, PHB2, Complete Book of Eldritch Might, Complete Mage, and a few others.
Now, I can see a repetitive theme going on. Spells that grant the summoner some protection, can enhance their eidolon and summoned creatures, conjuration spells, conjuration (creation) spells, teleportation, interdimensional, planar spells, a little bit of misdirection and physical enhancements.
Now I do not see anything that actually deals damage. Clearly not a "magic blaster" type. But then I see something whacky like Aqueous Orb. Ok, it's a Conjuration (Creation), fine. There's not many of those that deal damage. But then, why didn't it receive Acid Arrow as a spell? That's Conjuration (Creation). Which points out another whacky one, Acid Splash at 0-level. An acid spell, Conjuration...but no Acid Arrow spell?
Then I see one wayyyyy at 6th-level...Incendiary Cloud. What!? Just when I thought it didn't really receive any "cloud/fog/mist" conjuration spells, I see this thing pop out of no where!
James, someone...anyone...explain to me this process of choosing Summoner spells. I'd like to know if those were mistakes or was the Summoner intended to have more Conjuration damaging spells?
why didn't it receive Acid Arrow as a spell? Why, why, why, why, why?
Looking at the Summoner's spells list it is obvious how much the bard spell list suck.
The Bard. The class that is all about utility, buffing, debuffing, enchantment, knowledge and divination and a some illusion.
The Bard gets spells like haste, slow, see invisibility, phantom steed, dimension door, invisibility (greater), one spell level lower than the Summoner.
And The Bard doesn't even get spells like: mage armor, protection from chaos/evil/, enlarge person, fly, protection from energy, bull’s strength, barkskin, spider climb, teleport and teleport (greater),
etc.
So I suggest you cut down on the hyperbole on not getting acid arrow. They do get creeping
doom, one of the best spells in the game along with Glitterdust. The summoner's spell list will make any bard player cry.
I agree. Waah. No Acid Arrow.
sarcasm "Besides, the Bard's Eidolon is much nastier." /sarcasm
(That is to say the Eidolon is the Summoner Class's Gem, not the Spell List. Much like the Bard makes their 'money' as a skill monkey/buffbot)
Remind me, please, does the Summoner get Use Magic Device as a class skill? If he does, he has all the firepowers he needs to be an effective/ish blaster. You can't have everything, and a lack of Acid Arrow is a paltry price to pay.
GNOME
Congratulations on completely missing the point. Here's your dunce cap, go sit in the corner.
This isn't a "boo hoo I don't get acid arrow" thread, it's a "what the hell was the logic used in making the spell list so I can expand it with 3rd party products" thread.
It's just one of these things. Sometimes, you get some spells that fit a theme, but not all.
Wizards don't get firestorm even though it's a fire evocation and would be right at home on an evoker's spell list (though unlike other evocations, it lets you spare plant life, which real wizards think is treehugger behaviour, so that might be it.
Druids would not say no to fireballs (they get a lot of fire stuff), but they don't get the spell. At all.
If you look long enough, you find lots of examples like this.
I think that at least some of the time, a class is supposed to get "restricted access" to something, which either means you get the lower-level, tame stuff (though it's often a level higher for you), or you only get that any of the stuff on high levels.
Congratulations on completely missing the point. Here's your dunce cap, go sit in the corner.
This isn't a "boo hoo I don't get acid arrow" thread, it's a "what the hell was the logic used in making the spell list so I can expand it with 3rd party products" thread.
I don't quite get the hostility, either. Sure, it's Razz, who is not always easy to deal with, and depending on how you read the original post, you might read some hostility into it, but the original post really isn't anything like a whining thread. It's a request for explanation. Maybe a bit towards being a demand for explanation, but not that much really.
And in the end, I'd like to hear some insights into this as well, though I suspect the design process had a big part of "play it by ear" in it (some things just can't be tied down with numbers).
Congratulations on completely missing the point. Here's your dunce cap, go sit in the corner.
This isn't a "boo hoo I don't get acid arrow" thread, it's a "what the hell was the logic used in making the spell list so I can expand it with 3rd party products" thread.
I don't quite get the hostility, either. Sure, it's Razz, who is not always easy to deal with, and depending on how you read the original post, you might read some hostility into it, but the original post really isn't anything like a whining thread. It's a request for explanation. Maybe a bit towards being a demand for explanation, but not that much really.
And in the end, I'd like to hear some insights into this as well, though I suspect the design process had a big part of "play it by ear" in it (some things just can't be tied down with numbers).
Thanks...I think? LOL
I mean, you nailed it. I wasn't whining on anything at all. I was just really curious why the funky, random, unthemed spell gets thrown in the mix of such a tightly-themed spell list for the class. It just seemed really funky, and I was curious if it was intentional, and if so, why? That way, maybe I could look over all my non-PF spells and see which "whacky" spells I could consider adding to the list.
Thanks...I think? LOL
You're welcome, I guess. :D