I don't know how your GM does things, but if a caster has his sand in hand and announces he enters a room ready to cast, anything visable that tries to hit them gets the spell in their face.
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This is in reference to...? Are you talking about casting Colorspray?
Well, to get the thread back on topic, because Lazar is right, it got way off target. But I spoke with my DM, and he did ok the switch out Mage Armor for Colorspray, like I thought he would. Now I just have to decide if I will do it or not, my AC is really bad at 12 (+2 Dex).
Well, to get the thread back on topic, because Lazar is right, it got way off target. But I spoke with my DM, and he did ok the switch out Mage Armor for Colorspray, like I thought he would. Now I just have to decide if I will do it or not, my AC is really bad at 12 (+2 Dex).
If it is a huge issue to you, then you could wear a little armor and a buckler. The Spell failure shouldn't be too much of an issue if you stay light on the armor side. Leather and a buckler will give you +3 AC for only -1 ACP (not a huge issue for you) and 15% (iirc) spell failure.
A 16 is not really any better especially at the cost of a spell (and worse yet an action).
Stay out of combat and try to get consumables (scrolls, wands & potions) which might be harder than normal for you as you've mentioned. But it is the standard way a sorcerer works.
You now have what? Color spray and magic missile? That's decent you have a close range spell and a medium range spell. Range at low levels is very important, just as SR is important later in leveling.
-James
Well, unfortunately I don't think scrolls, wands and potions are going to be standard for this Sorcerer. Well, I shouldn't say that, we have a divine caster NPC able to make potions for us, so we at least will have healing potions. Maybe our DM will have the NPC Wizard start scribing some scrolls for us. He hasn't done any as of yet.
If it is a huge issue to you, then you could wear a little armor and a buckler. The Spell failure shouldn't be too much of an issue if you stay light on the armor side. Leather and a buckler will give you +3 AC for only -1 ACP (not a huge issue for you) and 15% (iirc) spell failure.
Not real sure I want to do that, not just for the Arcane spell failure chance, but the added weight. With only a 12 Str it will put me into medium weight.
I think I will probably end up switching the spells out, just for the fact it's been so long since I've used Colorspray and I'd like to play with it again. It was at least as far back as 2nd edition when I used it last.
Well, I'll think about it (taking Leadership). It's not really something at the top of my list.
I am sure we will get access to scrolls eventually, it just won't be as easily accessible as a standard race. I don't know if I want to take Leadership for the main motivation in having consumables.
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With the release of the APG, I think everyone should quickly realize a very specific ability that turns color spray into a massive powerhouse lvl 1 spell.
Oracles of the Heavens Mystery may select (without level requirement) the revelation "Phantasmagoric Display (Su)"
This ability causes all creatures affected by your illusion (pattern) spells to be treated as if their total HD is equal to heir HD minus your Charisma modifier.
And guess what spell they get at level 2... Color Spray.
In my game, there is a level 4 Gnome Oracle (standard array for stats, mind you, no min-maxing) with an 18 charisma, and a color spray that can knock 7 HD creatures Unconscious for 2d4 rounds if they fail a DC 17 Will save... (spell focus illusion)
Yes, I believe the benefit of the Heaven Mystery for the Oracle was brought up earlier on in the thread.
Now I assume with the opponent treated as having a lower HD due to this ability of the Oracle, their saving throws would be lowered accordingly, as well?
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Now I assume with the opponent treated as having a lower HD due to this ability of the Oracle, their saving throws would be lowered accordingly, as well?
You assume incorrectly. The ability reduces their effective HD for the purposes of being effected by the pattern. It does not decrease their actual HD so saving throws are not effected.
As a note to people wondering how to get 16 save DCs at level 1, you take advantage of the gnome racial. +1 to DCs of illusion spells that stacks with spell focus at level 1 means you can start with a 16 save DC without even min-maxing your stats. throw a 14 or 15 in to CHA, let the gnome blood crank it to a +3 and you have a pretty little light show that the whole family can enjoy.
Ok, it was more of a hopeful assumption then anything. On that note, it really limits the usefulness of it against higher CR’s except with the monsters with fighter type saving throws.
Yes, it is still better than what you originally would have with Colorspray, but I don’t feel it should be one of the main reasons to choose the Heaven’s Mystery for the Oracle. It would be wanting to take that Mystery in the first place and this just being an added bonus.
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If it is a huge issue to you, then you could wear a little armor and a buckler. The Spell failure shouldn't be too much of an issue if you stay light on the armor side. Leather and a buckler will give you +3 AC for only -1 ACP (not a huge issue for you) and 15% (iirc) spell failure.
Or better still, get a darkwood shield (small for no spell failure chance or large for better AC).
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Ok, it was more of a hopeful assumption then anything. On that note, it really limits the usefulness of it against higher CR’s except with the monsters with fighter type saving throws.
Let's be honest though, with the exception of enemy spellcasters, low will saves are pretty darned common. I'm really surprised how this hasn't really sunk in. For an enemy with an average wisdom (fairly common on fightery types anyway) it takes 18 levels for them to have a 50/50 chance of resisting a save DC 16 spell. Even with good gear (say a +2 cloak of resistance) you're still talking about a need for 12 levels. Now stick that ability on a spellcasting build for an oracle (CHA of 18) and at around level 8 or so (with a CHA of 18 + 2 for levels + 2 for a headband = CHA 22) and the Phantasmagoric display and the spell is still going to be in the stun+blindness effect against 10 HD creatures.
Even if they are higher level though, color spray still does stun for a round, and stun is really a powerful ability. When you consider that combats rarely last more than 5 rounds or so, making your enemy unable to fight for 1/5 the combat is pretty significant. It's the reason people say sound burst is such a powerful spell.
The small shield would give a +1 AC, correct? With no spell failure chance, and being half the weight (Darkwood) of a regular small shield, this could be a possibilty.
Let's be honest though, with the exception of enemy spellcasters, low will saves are pretty darned common. I'm really surprised how this hasn't really sunk in. For an enemy with an average wisdom (fairly common on fightery types anyway) it takes 18 levels for them to have a 50/50 chance of resisting a save DC 16 spell. Even with good gear (say a +2 cloak of resistance) you're still talking about a need for 12 levels. Now stick that ability on a spellcasting build for an oracle (CHA of 18) and at around level 8 or so (with a CHA of 18 + 2 for levels + 2 for a headband = CHA 22) and the Phantasmagoric display and the spell is still going to be in the stun+blindness effect against 10 HD creatures.
Ok, I did not realize low Will saves were that common (have always been the player, not the DM). If that is the case then, I agree, it is not really a drawback at all.
Even if they are higher level though, color spray still does stun for a round, and stun is really a powerful ability. When you consider that combats rarely last more than 5 rounds or so, making your enemy unable to fight for 1/5 the combat is pretty significant. It's the reason people say sound burst is such a powerful spell.
As I indicated earlier, I had spoken with my DM and he had ok’ed the switch of the spells. I think I am going to do it. Just for the fact I haven’t played around with Color Spray for awhile and want to see how well it works out in my current DM’s campaign style. I think it will work well, as he does like to use a lot of low CR creatures, even when we are higher level, to expend our resources.
Mind you that's a reduction of total HD, not HD per creature. So if there are 3 creatures they only get reduced by one HD each.With the release of the APG, I think everyone should quickly realize a very specific ability that turns color spray into a massive powerhouse lvl 1 spell.
Oracles of the Heavens Mystery may select (without level requirement) the revelation "Phantasmagoric Display (Su)"
This ability causes all creatures affected by your illusion (pattern) spells to be treated as if their total HD is equal to heir HD minus your Charisma modifier.
And guess what spell they get at level 2... Color Spray.
In my game, there is a level 4 Gnome Oracle (standard array for stats, mind you, no min-maxing) with an 18 charisma, and a color spray that can knock 7 HD creatures Unconscious for 2d4 rounds if they fail a DC 17 Will save... (spell focus illusion)
I don’t know about that, the way the SRD reads:
Awesome Display(Su): Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, dumbfounding all who behold them. Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).
Sounds like each creature is affected separately. You take each creatures total number of HD, then subtract your Charisma modifier.
I could be reading it wrong, but that's the way it sounds like to me.
Here is my input.
I think Color Spray is an awesome first level spell, but it relies on a few things. The main one being that none of your allies get in the cone.
At first level, consider using some of your spare cash to buy the fighter a long spear or a reach weapon of his choice. If he is agreeable get him to stand in front and just to the side of you. If there is another front line character and space permits, see if you can convince him to stand in the other front diagonal, preferably with out a reach weapon.
From a tactical point this means that any creature approaching the front line is going to get an attack of opportunity, that will generally do enough damage to kill them (most first level opponents have no reach and less than one decent hit worth of hit points. The other front line warrior gets an attack of opportunity from anyone who tries to get at you most of the time. And unless someone ends up in the gap between the two front line characters, you can color spray the gap between them with out endangering them.
What else are you carrying?
Well, here is my list of gear that has any kind of weight to it:
Masterwork Backpack 4 lbs
Waterskin 4 lbs
Heavy Crossbow 8 lbs
Light Mace 4 lbs
Bedroll 5 lbs
Grappling Hook 4 lbs
50’ Silk Rope 5 lbs
7 days trail rations 7 lbs
Healer’s Kit 1 lb
~100 coins 2 lbs
2 belt pouches 1 lb
For a grand total of 45 lbs. Now, as you can see, I have a Masterwork Backpack, which bumps my carrying capacity to 50 lbs. So I guess I could get a Darkwood Light shield in there. I believe it would only be 2-3 extra lbs or so.
I am guessing some of you will suggest dumping a couple items that you feel Sorcerers don’t need, like the Grappling Hook. However, I’ve always made a point to carry one in if our stronger fighter types are not available to use their own.
Also, I went with a Heavy Crossbow for the extra damage and range. Otherwise, the remaining is pretty standard.
Not sure why it won't space the weight amounts from the equipment, even though I tried to set it up that way in my post. But you should be able to see it easily enough.
Here is my input.
I think Color Spray is an awesome first level spell, but it relies on a few things. The main one being that none of your allies get in the cone.
At first level, consider using some of your spare cash to buy the fighter a long spear or a reach weapon of his choice. If he is agreeable get him to stand in front and just to the side of you. If there is another front line character and space permits, see if you can convince him to stand in the other front diagonal, preferably with out a reach weapon.
From a tactical point this means that any creature approaching the front line is going to get an attack of opportunity, that will generally do enough damage to kill them (most first level opponents have no reach and less than one decent hit worth of hit points. The other front line warrior gets an attack of opportunity from anyone who tries to get at you most of the time. And unless someone ends up in the gap between the two front line characters, you can color spray the gap between them with out endangering them.
Your tactics are sound. But trying to get my party to agree with doing it is another thing. Not that we aren’t a good party, it’s just with the exception when we are setting up an ambush or are going to invade a location we know well, we usually are doing our own tactics, but still try to do so to benefit one another.
But I could bring it up to them. However, it would be more myself moving up between two fighters, like you suggested, than asking them to set up that way for me.
Away from your caster for a second, but lets not forget about the Rogue Talent that gives the rogue a 1st lvl spell as a spell-like ability.
Sneaky Rogue + Colourspray = SA all over your face =D