I am about to houserule that Vital Strike works with any single attack made on your turn, wanting to increase the power of martial types but not hand something to casters that would be broken.
Can anybody think of a spell that having just Vital Strike would break? By my wording, it will not work on Scorching Ray or any that strikes more than one target, but I want to make sure before I allow it to work with spells.
I am about to houserule that Vital Strike works with any single attack made on your turn, wanting to increase the power of martial types but not hand something to casters that would be broken.
Can anybody think of a spell that having just Vital Strike would break? By my wording, it will not work on Scorching Ray or any that strikes more than one target, but I want to make sure before I allow it to work with spells.
This won't break anything at all.
This won't break anything at all.I am about to houserule that Vital Strike works with any single attack made on your turn, wanting to increase the power of martial types but not hand something to casters that would be broken.
Can anybody think of a spell that having just Vital Strike would break? By my wording, it will not work on Scorching Ray or any that strikes more than one target, but I want to make sure before I allow it to work with spells.
~+1
I think it PROBABLY won't break anything either, but it depends a LOT on your GMing style, the player's playing style and what you consider "broken". Probably the main reason I haven't instituded this rule myself is no one has asked, but then again my games tend to be on the high powered side.
My houserule about vital strike is that it works every time you are only doing a single physical attack against a single enemy on your turn.
Single attack means no full attack.
Single enemy means nothing like cleave or whirlwind attack.
On your turn means it doesn't work on attacks of opportunity, but you can make a vital strike on your turn and still make attacks of opportunity. AoOs just never figure into it.
Physical attack means with a (manufactured) weapon, natural weapon, or unarmed strike. No magic, spell-like ability or supernatural stuff, even if it's one attack against one enemy.
The no magic part is important for things like polar ray, enervation, disintegrate. They're all just single attacks, they only hit a single enemy, but if you let people make vital strikes with that sort of thing, you'll end up with real crazy stuff.
Extreme example: Fighter 2/Wizard 8/Eldritch Knight 10. With the Magical Knack trait or whatever it's called, the character will have caster level 19. You can get it to 20, too, using items, or certain Feats and abilities (some of which are from 3.5 or third party publishers, but still). Anyway, the character will have the spells/day of a wizard 17, i.e. 9th-level magic.
The character also has BAB 16/11/6/1, and if you take that 2nd fighter level at level 20, you get to blow your bonus feat on the last Vital Strike feat.
Now, if you count a single touch or ranged touch attack for a spell as something eligible for Greater Vital Strike, your Disintegrate will deal 20d6 if the guy makes his save - or 160d6 if he fails.
Better yet, polar ray will be 80d6, no save. At that point, the 1d4 dex drain won't really matter.
And if they get you that far, you might be so shocked that you'll let them use it on energy drain, meaning 8d4 negative levels. Yes, that's 20 negative levels on average, i.e. enough to commit total suicide with, or kill basically every classed NPC and lots of monsters outright.
(Hm... Treyu, should you read this post: Go get a cold shower, run a couple of times around the block, get some ice packs and have a lie-down, this can't be good for your heart!)
This is how I've houseruled it as well. That way it works on a charge (much like Powerful Charge or whatever it was from 3.5/Eberron) or spring attack.
I've thought of altering it further and letting you gain all your additional BAB iteratives as a static bonus to that damage. So an 11th level fighter who only took 1 swing would get +7 to damage (+11 hit +6/+1 added together). Or something to that effect I haven't thought about a balance point yet, but even that doesn't seem all too powerful.
This in combination with sacrificing an iterative to move an extra 10 feet lets fighters full attack--or a reasonable facsimile--more often at higher levels.
Myself and Kirth agreed that it should be an extra 2d6 per feat, not extra weapon dice. Thus you aren't encouraging characters to get the huegest weapon possible to Vital Strike for 20d12 damage. </hyperbole>. It works the same for a dagger as it does for a greatsword.
Exactly right ... it should really be just one feat, not three of them, for the love of pete. +2d6 at BAB +6, +4d6 at BAB +11, and +6d6 at BAB +16. And it works with Spring Attack and with charges, or else what's the point?
I didn't want to break anyone's brain with too much awesome there Kirth. :)
It's not that awesome, all things considered. Even with the barbarian rage power that doubles the Vital Strike damage output, it's still less useful than a full attack... or would be, if the daggone iterative attack penalties weren't so egregious.
By the way, I've capped them at -5, so a 16th level fighter attacks at +16/+11/+11/+11. Take the Multiattack feat, and that's +16/+14/+14/+14. Now THAT should blow some people's minds... but the thing is, it's still paltry compared to a prismatic spray, which your friend got 2-3 levels earlier and is already outgrowing.
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Vital strike disintegrate 40d6 at level 10 with a fort save for 10d6? Ouch. Too strong for my tastes.
it effectively gives free empowering of spells on avg. damage...
if you made it like alchemist bombs it could balance (only 1st CL of dice gets doubled).
so a disintegrate by a 10th level caster does 20d6 (2d6 per CL) would get an extra 2d6 for a total of 22d6 and save for 7d6.
but what action is it to use vital strike with this house rule? Having it take a full round and a swift action (you could only take free actions the same round) could make not it too powerful.
I've already seen that rule proposed in the Tomes. :)
It's sort of an obvious thing to do.
Vital strike disintegrate 40d6 at level 10 with a fort save for 10d6? Ouch. Too strong for my tastes.
Huh? Oh, you're using Paizo's rules and taking the whole feat chain, which is a neat trick given that your BAB is too low to meet the prerequisites for even the first one. And how are you casting disintegrate at 10th level, anyway?
Using the feat as I revised it, a 12th level caster (BAB +6) would be dealing the same amount as the spell, +2d6. That's not worth a feat to him. Meanwhile, his friend the 12th level fighter is dealing 1d4 + Str + 4d6 with a dagger -- or 1d4 + STR + 8d6 with the appropriate fighter talent -- after someone steals his sword.
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Huh? Oh, you're using Paizo's rules and taking the whole feat chain, which is a neat trick given that your BAB is too low to meet the prerequisites for even the first one. And how are you casting disintegrate at 10th level, anyway?
He was referring to the OPs question of 'what spells would break with VS?', and suggesting using VS with Disintegrate.
Which rage power are you referring to? [/threadjack]
Sorry, it's one I house ruled in, since the Pathfinder ones you need to be 12th level or whatever to get are appropriate for like 4th level characters.
And it works with Spring Attack and with charges, or else what's the point?RAW Spring Attack doesn't work with it or almost anything.
Thank you for the posts.
I've decided my version of Vital Strike is going to be usable only on single attacks on your turn (no AoO, no Cleave etc) that deal actual HP damage (no Vital Striking with Wisdom draining touch or anything) and does not work with touch attacks. And it will be only one feat that scales.
Vital Strike: When you make a single attack on your turn, you can concentrate on that one strike to deal additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack two times and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total. This attack does not work on attacks that deal non-hitpoint damage and does not work with touch attacks. At BAB 11, you roll the damage dice three times. At BAB 16, you roll the damage dice four times.
Anything else that should be covered, ambiguities, potential breakage or loopholes?
Vital strike disintegrate 40d6 at level 10 with a fort save for 10d6? Ouch. Too strong for my tastes.
it effectively gives free empowering of spells on avg. damage...
if you made it like alchemist bombs it could balance (only 1st CL of dice gets doubled).
so a disintegrate by a 10th level caster does 20d6 (2d6 per CL) would get an extra 2d6 for a total of 22d6 and save for 7d6.
but what action is it to use vital strike with this house rule? Having it take a full round and a swift action (you could only take free actions the same round) could make not it too powerful.
In my houserules, it's no action at all. It's just what happens. And it's not a feat (or three feats), either, but just, well, the way things are.