Read the title, watch this video, be amazed.
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My one and only question is, what is that grell doing? O_o o_O
I'm sure that's illegal in most countries :P
I lol`d
My one and only question is, what is that grell doing? O_o o_O
I'm sure that's illegal in most countries :P
Except Japan. :)
My one and only question is, what is that grell doing? O_o o_O
I'm sure that's illegal in most countries :P
Thats what crossed my mind as well.
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Is it fatuous of me to note that they're trying to sell 4th Edition D&D using images and music from 1st Edition? If they're showcasing what's cool about the game, how about just ... selling 1st Edition AD&D?
Yeah, after watching that I really wanted my 1e Fiend Folio back... I might have to buy a used one from Amazon for nostalgia's sake.
I'm not sure what the demographic for 4.0 is anymore. It started out as wanting to attract the MMO crowd by saying it was not like the previous paper based games now it is trying to target the paper crowd which has either stuck with 3.x, moved on to PF, or moved back to a retro clone.
WAT.
You are not making any sense.
They never "wanted to attract the MMO crowd" by saying it was dissimilar to previous products. They did what every company ever has done and said "Our product is different."
As for this, Essentials and the Red Box has two goals - bring in those that stopped playing D&D with 4e, and bring in new players to the hobby all around. The nostalgia of the commercial appeals to the former, and the awesome of the commercial appeals to the latter.
I wonder if the 4e crowd ever makes wild assumptions about the pathfinder player base like we do with them?
If 4e wanted to attrach the MMO crowd, it'd have to do what MMOs do, which it doesn't.
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They never "wanted to attract the MMO crowd" by saying it was dissimilar to previous products. They did what every company ever has done and said "Our product is different."
As for this, Essentials and the Red Box has two goals - bring in those that stopped playing D&D with 4e, and bring in new players to the hobby all around. The nostalgia of the commercial appeals to the former, and the awesome of the commercial appeals to the latter.
That commercial is directly aimed at folks who played 1st and 2nd edition. Without the nostalgia factor, it's just some not very good art mixed with some decent aggressive music. It's not an 'awesome commercial that's going to appeal to new players'.
(Did I get a kick out of it? Sure. I personally think it's pretty great. Even awesome. But only because I've been playing the game for almost 27 years.)
They never "wanted to attract the MMO crowd" by saying it was dissimilar to previous products. They did what every company ever has done and said "Our product is different."
As for this, Essentials and the Red Box has two goals - bring in those that stopped playing D&D with 4e, and bring in new players to the hobby all around. The nostalgia of the commercial appeals to the former, and the awesome of the commercial appeals to the latter.
That commercial is directly aimed at folks who played 1st and 2nd edition. Without the nostalgia factor, it's just some not very good art mixed with some decent aggressive music. It's not an 'awesome commercial that's going to appeal to new players'.
(Did I get a kick out of it? Sure. I personally think it's pretty great. Even awesome. But only because I've been playing the game for almost 27 years.)
Lets not forget that there is shared and false nostalgia - people get nostalgic for things they never actually experienced.
Certainly it would seem that this is made for 1e fans, people who enjoyed the first Fiend Folio, but I would counter that 2e players, or even players that came in with third edition would still feel nostalgic for it, regardless of if they had or hadn't ever played with the original Fiend Folio. Even people who just came into D&D could look at that commercial and go "Yeah that's totally awesome" based purely on it being based in something "old school."
Old things in a hobby appeal to people in that hobby, no matter when they joined, if they did or didn't experience it, or even if they really ever like it in the first place. Someone who plays Xbox 360 all the time will speak enthusiastically about Atari games despite never wanting to play them.
As for the awesome factor, it absolutely will appeal to non-players. False nostalgia is huge right now. Look at how much stuff from the 80's and 70's are making a comeback. Retro hobbies are in, and in a big way.
I loved that ad... though I too was perplexed by that randy grell. Perhaps it saw the camera and assumed that this was its big break into blue movies.
I believe this commercial is intended for and is just on Hulu, so derive what you will from that :p
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(Did I get a kick out of it? Sure. I personally think it's pretty great. Even awesome. But only because I've been playing the game for almost 27 years.)I think the target audience here is people who played D&D 20+ years ago, but haven't played since. And now they see this game they played as kids and it brings back memories - and they go out and get this game for their own kids, or get back into it themselves.
I think the Red Box as a whole is aimed both at entirely new players as well as 'classic' players - but this commercial itself is certainly aimed at the latter. We may see other commercials aimed at entirely new players.
Either way, I don't see it as unreasonable to appeal to nostalgia while advertising a new product. One can appeal to the emotions and memories of old-school D&D, and capture those experiences, without needing to replicate all the original mechanics of the game.
But they aren't advertising a new product. Nothing in that commercial advertises 4e D&D. The box is a near exact replica of a very different game and the art they used isn't even replicated in the box. The only thing they are advertising is the nostalgia itself.
That commercial, inter cut with shots of some of the art actually in the box product, maybe a close up or pan across a couple of power cards that are based off of some old school spells... Something showing that it's not a reprint of an 80's D&D game would have been much more honest and in the long run more successful at selling their product.
I looked a target online and didn't see it though. I think I may check in-store next time I'm there.
Did anyone else notice the "avalible at Target" bit at the end. Maybe Paizo should take a page from that playbook and try distributing to stores like Target and Wal-Mart with their intro set.
Usually this is part of an advertising scheme where the named group (Target in this case) actually pays some percentage of the advertising fee.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So, I looked through several reviews and on-line presentations for the Red Box, and I have to say: the ad in the original post is not just "nostalgic", it's misleading. As I understand things, neither a grell nor Githyanki appear anywhere in the product at all. So, the customers for whom the choice of those images is supposed to actually appeal -- the folks who know what a Githyanki is -- are probably going to be most keenly disappointed.
There were two introductory boxed sets for 3rd Edition, one better than the other, but both gave the customer what their cover art and advertising art promised: a fight with (in one case) a small blue dragon, or (in the other case) a displacer beast.
They never "wanted to attract the MMO crowd" by saying it was dissimilar to previous products. They did what every company ever has done and said "Our product is different."
As for this, Essentials and the Red Box has two goals - bring in those that stopped playing D&D with 4e, and bring in new players to the hobby all around. The nostalgia of the commercial appeals to the former, and the awesome of the commercial appeals to the latter.
I am actually kind of with you on this one. This is one of the first wise marketing approaches WotC have taken since the release of 4e.
It probably isn't going to change what I play, 4e is way to gamist for me, but I do want to see WotC prosper, especially if it means that new people come into the hobby, and eventually outgrow 4e, before moving onto games which I prefer.
So, I looked through several reviews and on-line presentations for the Red Box, and I have to say: the ad in the original post is not just "nostalgic", it's misleading. As I understand things, neither a grell nor Githyanki appear anywhere in the product at all. So, the customers for whom the choice of those images is supposed to actually appeal -- the folks who know what a Githyanki is -- are probably going to be most keenly disappointed.
There were two introductory boxed sets for 3rd Edition, one better than the other, but both gave the customer what their cover art and advertising art promised: a fight with (in one case) a small blue dragon, or (in the other case) a displacer beast.
Your right but I don't think it particularly matters. If your in touch enough with D&D to know what a Githyanki is then the Red Box is not for you. Your best off getting into 4E via another route like buying Hero's of the Fallen Lands. In fact that's the part that concerns me with this advertising - it'll lead players that should not be getting the Red Box to the Red Box.
On the other hand if it gets adults that are too busy for D&D or see it as something they outgrew to buy the product for their progeny then its done its job in this case.
Allow me to quote from someone else on EN World:
"I get the impression that it's because of, not in spite of, a lot of posters' knowledge and experience with 4E that would cause them to be disappointed with what the new Red Box contains. I can't prove it, but that that's the impression I get.
Would someone REALLY be disappointed in the rules of a game they played 25 years ago not being exactly the same, especially when they still get to play meat shields, or wield big weapons and smash things, or sling spells and fry enemies like they used to? In fact, more often than they used to, given the wizards' and clerics small spell load in the olden days?
It's not like they're going to say, "what's this 'healing surge' crap? I used to have to stay camped in town for two weeks to heal! I'm outta here!" Chances are they're not going to be overly concerned with play style, nuances of game mechanics, or engaging in debates on verisimilitude after being away from the game for 25 years. Give 'em a couple months of play before they start doing that, first. I guarantee two things:
1) A heck of a lot of us old timers used some form of spatial representation when they played D&D - enough to say that it wasn't just some minor splinter-thing. Given RPGs' wargaming roots, I'd say it was a plurality if not a majority playing with minis and square or hex-grids.
2)You can get an old-school dungeon crawling hack and slashing sensibility playing the red box stuff just like you could back in the original red box. The people who lapsed back then aren't itching to pick up the Red Box so they can do in-depth character exploration or roleplay; they're picking it up to roll dice and kill goblins. Some may be disappointed that you don't take two weeks to heal up 1 hit point per day, or that their wizard is only casting two spells a day, sure -- but I think the majority is going to care more about whacking hobgoblins with a two-handed sword while their magic-user, excuse me, wizard pops someone with a magic missile and the thief gets a backstab in."
Did anyone else notice the "avalible at Target" bit at the end. Maybe Paizo should take a page from that playbook and try distributing to stores like Target and Wal-Mart with their intro set.
The day Paizo has anything Pathfinder-related in Target and Walmart is the day I go home early, fill the bathtub with crisp new hundred-dollar bills, turn the lights down low, and just soak for a bit...
(And I'm at the low end of the totem pole--I can only imagine what management's reaction would be...)
Allow me to quote from someone else on EN World:
"I get the impression that it's because of, not in spite of, a lot of posters' knowledge and experience with 4E that would cause them to be disappointed with what the new Red Box contains. I can't prove it, but that that's the impression I get.
I think the inability to roll up a character might be a bigger hang up. To make a character you need to play a choose your own adventure. This is a great idea for some one that has no idea how to do role playing games. It, over the course of about two hours, gets them to fill out a character sheet and makes doing it lots of fun for our complete neophyte. Better yet the neophyte has some idea what the numbers mean - strength is connected doing damage and lifting stuff.
All really good for a neophyte but a player that has experience with any edition of D&D or even is a Shadowrun vet does not need a two hour choose your own adventure system just to roll up a character. They are better served by skipping the Red Box and going straight for Hero's of the Fallen Lands.
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Allow me to quote from someone else on EN World:
"I get the impression that it's because of, not in spite of, a lot of posters' knowledge and experience with 4E that would cause them to be disappointed with what the new Red Box contains. I can't prove it, but that that's the impression I get.
I think the inability to roll up a character might be a bigger hang up. To make a character you need to play a choose your own adventure. This is a great idea for some one that has no idea how to do role playing games. It, over the course of about two hours, gets them to fill out a character sheet and makes doing it lots of fun for our complete neophyte. Better yet the neophyte has some idea what the numbers mean - strength is connected doing damage and lifting stuff.
All really good for a neophyte but a player that has experience with any edition of D&D or even is a Shadowrun vet does not need a two hour choose your own adventure system just to roll up a character. They are better served by skipping the Red Box and going straight for Hero's of the Fallen Lands.
In all fairness, I would assume that the box covers a 'shortcut' version of character creation. Of course, I haven't seen it. I'm just sayin.
The only character creation in the red box is the choose your own adventure. On the whole it does what it is designed to do, which is teach someone the basics of the game for their first ever character and first party, and then points them to other products (the rest of the essentials line or the online subscription material) for further development. They make no effort to hide their intent to push people to other products, but then they never really have been shy in trying to push their products. In both version of 3.x, they worked hard to push splat books and even books on the transition that were of sometimes dubious quality that most people really didn't need to enjoy the game.
I don't know if this tapping into nostaglia with the red box will get them that many more long term players or not (only time will tell on that note), but it will definitely succeed in getting people give 4th edition a second look and, to some extent, get at least some of the people who disliked the original release and treatment to at least not actively campaign against it. That alone will help WOTC out considably and make it at least a partial success.
The day Paizo has anything Pathfinder-related in Target and Walmart is the day I go home early, fill the bathtub with crisp new hundred-dollar bills, turn the lights down low, and just soak for a bit...
Clearly you haven't thought this through. Paper cuts, man! Including on your squishy bits.
Really? Just getting a product in Walmart or Target is that big of a deal? I can't imagine all those companies that have product in Walmart and Target are full of employees bathing in money. Why does just getting a Pazio product in Target immediately mean huge monetary success for the company? People still have to buy it.
Most of the companies who have products in Target are several magnitudes larger than Paizo. So the wealth gets spread around to a lot more employees.
Also, to get a product into Target it has to already be a proven seller. And Paizo would get paid when Target purchases truckloads of products, not when Target sells them. So yes, immediate monetary success. On the other hand, it would have to continue to sell well for them to get a second order...
Really? Just getting a product in Walmart or Target is that big of a deal? I can't imagine all those companies that have product in Walmart and Target are full of employees bathing in money. Why does just getting a Pazio product in Target immediately mean huge monetary success for the company? People still have to buy it.Did anyone else notice the "avalible at Target" bit at the end. Maybe Paizo should take a page from that playbook and try distributing to stores like Target and Wal-Mart with their intro set.The day Paizo has anything Pathfinder-related in Target and Walmart is the day I go home early, fill the bathtub with crisp new hundred-dollar bills, turn the lights down low, and just soak for a bit...
(And I'm at the low end of the totem pole--I can only imagine what management's reaction would be...)
Yes, getting a product in a major store is a big deal. For the same reason having your product be on Amazon is a big deal. For the same reason people will pay money to try and ensure their product is in a certain place on an aisle in stores.
Having your product in Target means that people in Target will see it. Maybe they play D&D, maybe they don't. Maybe they used to play D&D long ago. What matters is that a potential customer has now seen your product.
Just like with DnD, I like the original better.
I knew I'd seen that somewhere before.
Just like with DnD, I like the original better.
I was going to mention the same thing.
The commercial is apparently a shortened version of someone's submission for a D&D video contest (I assume sponsored by Wizard's and so they officially own it). The longer version looks like it culls a lot more illustrations from 1st and 2nd edition and pays homage to more than just the dungeons part of the game.
While it seems unoriginal for the company to manipulate it for a commercial, I have to admit it's so cool I could see someone saying "we gotta use this" for an ad.
Dungeon Majesty's Youtube Page Looks like these folks like to do retro sci-fi and fantasy clips.
And on a completely random note, that video made remember this old commercial.
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And on a completely random note, that video made remember this old commercial.
Looks like Rankin/Bass work.
Yes, getting a product in a major store is a big deal. For the same reason having your product be on Amazon is a big deal. For the same reason people will pay money to try and ensure their product is in a certain place on an aisle in stores.
Having your product in Target means that people in Target will see it. Maybe they play D&D, maybe they don't. Maybe they used to play D&D long ago. What matters is that a potential customer has now seen your product.
I had a (pleasant) shock to the system couple weeks back when I saw the Pathfinder CRB in the gaming/RPG section at one of the bigger/prominent Barnes & Nobles in NYC (the one on 5th, near Rockefeller Ctr. - lots of tourist traffic).
Admittedly, that store has the largest gaming section of any of the Manhattan B&Ns, but I've never seen a Paizo book outside of the specialty shops (Neutral Ground before it closed, Compleat Strategist, *sometimes* at Forbidden Planet).
Target/Walmart are really big ponds to make a splash in, but it's nice to see a growing presence in other places too.
Yes, getting a product in a major store is a big deal. For the same reason having your product be on Amazon is a big deal. For the same reason people will pay money to try and ensure their product is in a certain place on an aisle in stores.
Having your product in Target means that people in Target will see it. Maybe they play D&D, maybe they don't. Maybe they used to play D&D long ago. What matters is that a potential customer has now seen your product.
I had a (pleasant) shock to the system couple weeks back when I saw the Pathfinder CRB in the gaming/RPG section at one of the bigger/prominent Barnes & Nobles in NYC (the one on 5th, near Rockefeller Ctr. - lots of tourist traffic).
Admittedly, that store has the largest gaming section of any of the Manhattan B&Ns, but I've never seen a Paizo book outside of the specialty shops (Neutral Ground before it closed, Compleat Strategist, *sometimes* at Forbidden Planet).
Target/Walmart are really big ponds to make a splash in, but it's nice to see a growing presence in other places too.
Hmm...thats interesting. I was under the impression that Pathfinder does not have a publisher - well Paizo of course, but I mean a book publisher Like Simon and Schulster, its just released through the game distribution network.
WotC stuff appears on book shelves and the like probably more because they are signed with Random House then because they are large or small or what not. That said Paizo has a small book line so there must be some manner in which they interface with the mainstream book business...though my suspicion is that I'd contact Paizo itself if I wanted to carry their books at my store.
None of that means that a B&N could not get the books - they just need to make an account with their local hobby game distributer. Its just that most won't.
Hmm...thats interesting. I was under the impression that Pathfinder does not have a publisher - well Paizo of course, but I mean a book publisher Like Simon and Schulster, its just released through the game distribution network.
WotC stuff appears on book shelves and the like probably more because they are signed with Random House then because they are large or small or what not. That said Paizo has a small book line so there must be some manner in which they interface with the mainstream book business...though my suspicion is that I'd contact Paizo itself if I wanted to carry their books at my store.
None of that means that a B&N could not get the books - they just need to make an account with their local hobby game distributer. Its just that most won't.
The word you are looking for is distributer. Paizo is their own publisher. Wizards is their own publisher. Paizo most certainly has a regular book trade distributer. If you contacted Paizo for wholesale purchases, they would direct you to one of them. They have at least one for the game trade and one for regular book trade.
Top 5 RPG companies based on shelf space at my local Borders:
1) Wizards: plenty of books including newer releases like Essentials and Dark Sun.
2) FFG: Stocking Deathwatch, Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Anima, and various supplements.
3) Paizo: All of the Pathfinder hardbacks.
4) White Wolf: Vampire and a couple other books.
5) Nobody: Those were the only 4 companies present.
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Read the title, watch this video, be amazed.
I see they ripped it off from this larger video from the competition - link
Are those Negoi Spelljammers?
I see they ripped it off from this larger video from the competition - link
Which WotC owns but don't let facts interfere with the hate.
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None of that means that a B&N could not get the books - they just need to make an account with their local hobby game distributer. Its just that most won't.
My local B&N carries Pathfinder. Not a huge selection, and I think it's just the hardcovers, but they're there. Of course 'there' means behind the counter where you'd never even know to look if you were just casually walking through. To most of their customers, they don't carry any RPG books.
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Which WotC owns but don't let facts interfere with the hate.I see they ripped it off from this larger video from the competition - link
LOL