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I think there was some confusion over the sense of the phrase "fall for it."I think the fact that Mikaze responded to his suggestion that it wasn't that bad with nothing but the phrase "Sweet Jesus" shows that it was the "loss of powers" meaning.
Precisely. Damnable English language.
Just curious, why didn't the other party members kill the CE wizard when he started pulling these shenanigans?
Not exactly agreeing with Judaskilled here or with table flipping or beatings, but what kept the Paladin in question from simply killing the CE Wizard PC? Or confronting them in game? What did the other characters do? I think something's missing from the description of the situation.
IIRC, most of the undermining was done behind the scenes and with notes. It was aimed at all of the good characters generally but the paladin, being a paladin, was the lightning rod for most of it. Add that to the paladin being a female character with a female player and the creepiness just boiled over.
Then the dominating happened with the GM, CE player and paladin player in another room. Paladin player is frustrated but is trying to roleplay it well and hoping the other characters will pick up on it.
Then the next time they're at an inn, the rape note gets passed to the GM, he passes the info along to the paladin. She was shocked that they would cross that line and is staring at these morons like they just grew vestigial twins. Then the GM announces that she's fallen.
She left that group immediately, as did most of the other players after it all came out as she found out the next few days. AFAIK, most of those guys never played together again. The CE player and the GM were certainly treated like pariahs by those who jumped ship. The paladin player skipped out of the hobby for a year after that.
Someone slashed the CE players tires the night of the incident. It wasn't the paladin player that did it. IIRC.
That and Lindisty's anecdote above just make me question the casual way rape is tossed around by some GMs and players. The question being "What the @#$% is wrong with you?" I'm not saying it cannot be present in a good story, but it damn well should be born of a consentual agreement between all the players involved, and should always be guided by a modicum of tact and sensitivity for people that have had to deal with that in real life.
I guess what I'm really getting at is some folks just need to be punched in the throat until they learn some social grace.
Admittedly I'm vindictive about this issue.
The DM who decided that having my character attacked and raped so she could be 'rescued' by the rest of the party would be a good way to introduce me to his gaming group. I didn't stick around past the opening scene there.
Good on you. Here's hoping your current and future groups are free of such dip#$%!s.
I need to bring steel chairs to games, just for players like that.
Yeah. I have a high tolerance for sick $&!+ in my games as long as no one minds -- but no tolerance at all if it creeps out the other players and they say as much. And raping women -- even imaginary ones -- is never funny.
Um... he's referring to when he brought it up to the GM.
Oh. Oh, yeah. (whistles innocently)
Just posting for the sake of symmetry, really.
There are much worse reasons.
I post because they tell me to.
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... As an avid hunter, he wasn't satisfied with a simple "we cut it up", he demanded a level of specifics which needed to mirror proper butchering techniques. It was just painful...
This is a minor pet peeve of mine, when a self-proclaimed "expert" decides that an action in-game is "way harder in real life than the game makes it out to be."
EDIT: Nothing to see here, carry on :)
This is not the post you are looking for.
Turns out, that WAS the post you were looking for.
I have that image printed up and hung on the wall of my cube at work.
That and Lindisty's anecdote above just make me question the casual way rape is tossed around by some GMs and players. The question being "What the @#$% is wrong with you?" I'm not saying it cannot be present in a good story, but it damn well should be born of a consentual agreement between all the players involved, and should always be guided by a modicum of tact and sensitivity for people that have had to deal with that in real life.
Precisely my feelings on the matter. It's not a matter of a rule inscribed in stone that rape (or other triggering sorts of topics) can't ever be included in a game. But when such issues are included in a game without the consent and understanding of all participants, then it's just a recipe for disaster.
Good on you. Here's hoping your current and future groups are free of such dip#$%!s.
Yeah. Well, at the moment I'm on gaming hiatus because our usual DM wants a break, and I haven't been feeling inspired to put myself in the DM chair again just yet. But the current group is good folk and dear friends, and the one time the DM included a potentially triggering issue, all it took was a "WTF are you thinking?" to get him to back off.
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That and Lindisty's anecdote above just make me question the casual way rape is tossed around by some GMs and players. The question being "What the @#$% is wrong with you?" I'm not saying it cannot be present in a good story, but it damn well should be born of a consentual agreement between all the players involved, and should always be guided by a modicum of tact and sensitivity for people that have had to deal with that in real life.
I guess what I'm really getting at is some folks just need to be punched in the throat until they learn some social grace.
I agree. It really is a tricky issue. I don't think its one where there is a kind of blanket rule on whether or not it is allowed. Search dark corners of the internet and you'll find RPGs (usually pbp) that are essentially erotica. Sign up for something like that and you know what your getting into.
If the players did not sign up for that sort of thing then I think players raping anything is quite simply off the table. Just don't. When the DM says they run a 'realistic' game that is not some kind of license to have creatures commit sexual assault on the female players characters. In fact, at this point, I've read so many stories like this (not just this thread) that if you happen to be female and being introduced to a (male) DM who makes a point of bringing up how 'realistic' his game is you should probably see that as a huge red flag.
Thinking of my own DMing I'd generally limit rape to something that is either in some ones back story, maybe as a motivator for why they are doing what they are doing. Maybe bring this to the front with some kind of plot device of players tracking a villainess when they learn that their patron has some really dirty skeletons in his closet that explains in full or in part the Villianesses actions. After this the players are facing an interesting dilemma depending on the exact details of the what took place and what the Villainess is doing for her revenge.
Even here its something to be careful with. I could easily see a female player getting super uncomfortable with where the story is going...which can be such a tricky thing and individual dependent. For one woman it might be part of an emotionally powerful story that makes the whole thing that much more meaningful and worth attending and for another this might be on the verge of making her physically ill and she does not want to play anymore. I guess I'd still go for it if I thought the story was good enough - but I'd be ready to abort this, apologize to the player and promise never to bring such a topic up again.
Its generally a topic that I think gender discriminates in terms of RPGs (in real life to of course). Far and away the most I've ever had rape come up in a game was under a female DM who ran Days of Our Lives - the Sword and Sorcery Edition.
This game was an emotional roller coaster ride (that was the point really). Many, many, sessions in an NPC, some one we knew and trusted, rapes one of the female players characters (we new he had a crush on her, but...) and she (the female player) literally has tears streaming down her face so the game suddenly comes to a halt and we are asking "Should we stop"? and the player in question says through gritted teeth (still crying) "No, we can't stop now, we are going to catch this guy and I am going to kill him". In a game of emotional highs and lows this was some pretty heavy stuff.
It actually kind of paled in comparison too two sessions later. We've caught up to the bastard, beat him down, throw him into a room and the female player who was raped goes in to confront him. Well he's begging for his life "I always loved you and you just seemed to look right through me no matter how hard I tried, please don't hurt me." Some how its just really pulling on our heart strings, one of the other female players says "Maybe we shouldn't kill him"? I remember that I could not sit still any more. I jump up and am basically running around the table saying "I don't know, I don't know anything anymore...anyway its Sarah's choice." (Sarah was the player of the female character who was raped). She's pretty conflicted too...I think she really liked it that he had a crush on her. Needless to say all the girls are crying by this point, that happened so often that we started calling the game 'the waterworks sessions'. The girls would start out somewhat spread out but about every third session they'd all end up in a gaggle on the couch crying. Not always bad stuff - once it was a wedding that had them clinging to each other crying.
Anyway we finally drag his ass out to the edge of the woods, strip him down and give him a walking stick and Sarah's character says something like "I'm going to leave it up to the Gods to decide. I don't know if I'm hoping you get eaten by a bear or survive as a hermit but you had better never return because if I ever see you again or hear from anyone that your back in civilization I'll kill you, there won't be a second chance."
Needless to say this was some of the most powerful gaming I've ever been involved in and yet I won't even try to emulate it as a DM - I think my gender precludes it.
I think there was some confusion over the sense of the phrase "fall for it."I think the fact that Mikaze responded to his suggestion that it wasn't that bad with nothing but the phrase "Sweet Jesus" shows that it was the "loss of powers" meaning.Precisely. Damnable English language.
Just curious, why didn't the other party members kill the CE wizard when he started pulling these shenanigans?
Not exactly agreeing with Judaskilled here or with table flipping or beatings, but what kept the Paladin in question from simply killing the CE Wizard PC? Or confronting them in game? What did the other characters do? I think something's missing from the description of the situation.IIRC, most of the undermining was done behind the scenes and with notes. It was aimed at all of the good characters generally but the paladin, being a paladin, was the lightning rod for most of it. Add that to the paladin being a female character with a female player and the creepiness just boiled over.
Then the dominating happened with the GM, CE player and paladin player in another room. Paladin player is frustrated but is trying to roleplay it well and hoping the other characters will pick up on it.
Then the next time they're at an inn, the rape note gets passed to the GM, he passes the info along to the paladin. She was shocked that they would cross that line and is staring at these morons like they just grew vestigial twins. Then the GM announces that she's fallen.
She left that group immediately, as did most of the other players after it all came out as she found out the next few days. AFAIK, most of those guys never played together again. The CE player and the GM were certainly treated like pariahs by those who jumped ship. The paladin player skipped out of the hobby for a year after that.
Someone slashed the CE players tires the night of the incident. It wasn't the paladin player that did it. IIRC.
That and Lindisty's anecdote above just make me question the casual way rape is tossed around by some GMs and players. The question being "What the @#$% is wrong with you?" I'm not saying it cannot be present in a good story, but it damn well should be born of a consentual agreement between all the players involved, and should always be guided by a modicum of tact and sensitivity for people that have had to deal with that in real life.
I guess what I'm really getting at is some folks just need to be punched in the throat until they learn some social grace.
Admittedly I'm vindictive about this issue.
WHOA!!!!!!
Not just whoa but WHOA!!!
I'm thinking there is even more to this situation than even you were a part of. Something went hella wrong there.
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WHOA!!!!!!
Not just whoa but WHOA!!!
I'm thinking there is even more to this situation than even you were a part of. Something went hella wrong there.
The only other detail about those guys that I remember was that the CE player had a reputation for being an instigator of interparty drama and he was talked about like "he makes the game interesting" and that he was a source of any number of "humorous" gameplay anecdotes.
That's it though. These days, as far as I know, most of those players consider that guy dead to them.
Yeah. Well, at the moment I'm on gaming hiatus because our usual DM wants a break, and I haven't been feeling inspired to put myself in the DM chair again just yet. But the current group is good folk and dear friends, and the one time the DM included a potentially triggering issue, all it took was a "WTF are you thinking?" to get him to back off.
Aces.
Triggering issues can be tricky things sometimes, what with so much stuff we take for granted in games and fiction being exactly that for different people. Hell, all the slavery threads and explosions within we had here about half a year back are proof of that.
Cripes, it's made me self-conscious to the point that I can't help but wonder if I should give fair warning to all the players if Lamashtu-themed stuff may be present in the game, considering all the baggage that comes with that.
story
Damn, dude. Just...damn.
Props to all involved in that case. I don't know if I could have made it through that as a player, but still, props.
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I have to agree. Slashing tires because of what happened to your character is junior high school. There had to be something more going on.
The player weren't the one what did it.
And quite frankly I would be sympathetic if she had considering this crossed quite a few more lines that something happening to her character..
I dont see how the wizard destroyed anyone's charecter. He used a spell and did things in charecter. Thats just roleplaying. The game isnt care bears the role playing game.The paladin fell how? You think the paladin because while mind controlled got raped lost its class? Thats retarded, there a TON of interesting roleplay that can come from this.
I think that the dm should tell the players at the start of a campaign or when a person makes a new charecter what the premise is and let them do as they want. I usually dm and approved a paladin and a CE rouge of cyric after telling both players this was the case. I knew one would die and they were warned. Not my problem.
Yeah... your verbal gymnastics aren't convincing.
The issue is the GM allowing his buddy's fun to be more important then the game and the group's fun.
If you could patch it together, than good on you, but no one should be required to do so. That is an unreasonable request.
This became a legend in my place. It was during a MERP campaign : in the climax two armies faced each others, one led by Sauron himself with the witch-king of Angmar, the other by several NPC and PC's alike, with one of the PC's being a hobbit that played the trumpet for the charge. Before the battle began the player of this hobbit said "I throw the trumpet into Sauron's face" ( SILENCE AT THE TABLE )
and the GM "roll for it" ( now, i knew Sauron is immune to every physical attack ) and probably the GM told that thinking "how much damage he is going to do anyway ?"
and the hobbit's player rolled something like a 500+ on a d100.
The critical tables told i don't remember which nasty death for some incredibly high critical, and the ( idiot ) GM told the player "your trumpet crushes Sauron's skull into splinters killing him instantly"
Any comments ?
I was playing a 3.5 campaign....
I had just moved up to flank the BBEG with the Barb; I don't remember if I had Precise Shot yet or not, but in hindsight, it wasn't the greatest idea in the world. Anyway, the Barb rolled a critical hit on the BBEG and the DM then said that the BBEG used some kind of hyper-speed ability he had to dodge the crit and then threw in that, since the guy had simply moved out of the great-axe's way, the gaxe kept going and hit my Scout instead. He then forced the other player to roll for damage and it ended up being max...so my Scout was dead in one shot.
Needless to say, neither of us was very happy about that.
I hate to tell you this, but this is actually legit. One of the tactical feats in the Complete Warrior actually does allow exactly this. Frustrating I know, but he wasn't cheating or making things up necessarily. I will say that 7 or 8 levels is a bit much.
This became a legend in my place. It was during a MERP campaign : in the climax two armies faced each others, one led by Sauron himself with the witch-king of Angmar, the other by several NPC and PC's alike, with one of the PC's being a hobbit that played the trumpet for the charge. Before the battle began the player of this hobbit said "I throw the trumpet into Sauron's face" ( SILENCE AT THE TABLE )
and the GM "roll for it" ( now, i knew Sauron is immune to every physical attack ) and probably the GM told that thinking "how much damage he is going to do anyway ?"
and the hobbit's player rolled something like a 500+ on a d100.
The critical tables told i don't remember which nasty death for some incredibly high critical, and the ( idiot ) GM told the player "your trumpet crushes Sauron's skull into splinters killing him instantly"Any comments ?
Dumb way to end it, but yeah from what I last remember of the books it is possible. Stupid openeded rolls and critical tables.
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As I thought, there had to be something more going on.
IF what had happened had been only limited to her character, then *whomever* slashed the guy's tires was acting like an 8 year old.
I think you're misunderstanding something.
Having your character rape someone else's character without their consent is already several steps beyond something happening only to your character.
Really think about if it had happened to you or a friend at the table. How would that make you feel?
But, I'm confused, you said you don't remember any other details besides the ones you've already mentioned.
Surely, a detail which would justify slashing the guy's tires would be something you'd remember.
I've seen a lot of players talking about GMs they don't trust and so forth.
But I'm wondering just how bad it really is at other tables.What's your horror story about what a GM has done?
Not mine, but this old doozy is unforgivable.
Meaning that all I know is what was told to me via two parties. And I have little reason to mistrust the word of those parties.
It sounds like an episode on Jerry Springer.
Some people, in the absense of healthy socialization and empathy really can get that @#$%ed up. It's depressingly become less of a shocker over the years.
That and Lindisty's anecdote above just make me question the casual way rape is tossed around by some GMs and players. The question being "What the @#$% is wrong with you?" I'm not saying it cannot be present in a good story, but it damn well should be born of a consentual agreement between all the players involved, and should always be guided by a modicum of tact and sensitivity for people that have had to deal with that in real life.
There lies the rub. To some people, rape happens on the news or in books, but like the game world, it isn't real to them. It's also easy to trivialise for the same reasons. I can recall a lecture I once attended where a very eminent speaker (nice enough guy, quite elderly) gave a talk, and made a passing and rather flippant comment regarding rape. He was talking to largely male and elderly audience, but not entirely. There were some younger people present and there were some women present.
One of whom had been raped.
By a guy tossing off the same comment as he did so.
Needless to say she was in pieces - and to his credit the speaker, when informed was as contrite as could be. The fact of the matter is, it's a subject that is rife with potential egg-shells. Some groups will be fine about it. Some (as we have seen above) will have groups that will do some awesome role-playing with it. And there are some douche-bags that think it's all a big joke and can't understand why it would offend anyone (which just adds even more offence).
In the original case we've been talking about I do agree something more is going on - that player had clearly upset other people pretty deeply, and it's disturbing to wonder what he might have done.
In a game with mostly new players.
I have had game where two players players played female lesbain elves. One was a scout and I forget what the other was. They ended up making out when out of combat. They also started capturing female drow and raping them bondage style. This was a few years ago and I was still in high school.
This also took all the action of the story of the adventure and more if it went into make out scences and rape. This slowed the whole adventure down and one player also played a reactionary dwarf fighter that got into pvp.
Also the Dm forgot to use the Drow's spell resistance all of the time and this was his first time dming.
That and Lindisty's anecdote above just make me question the casual way rape is tossed around by some GMs and players. The question being "What the @#$% is wrong with you?" I'm not saying it cannot be present in a good story, but it damn well should be born of a consentual agreement between all the players involved, and should always be guided by a modicum of tact and sensitivity for people that have had to deal with that in real life.There lies the rub. To some people, rape happens on the news or in books, but like the game world, it isn't real to them. It's also easy to trivialise for the same reasons. I can recall a lecture I once attended where a very eminent speaker (nice enough guy, quite elderly) gave a talk, and made a passing and rather flippant comment regarding rape. He was talking to largely male and elderly audience, but not entirely. There were some younger people present and there were some women present.
One of whom had been raped.
By a guy tossing off the same comment as he did so.
Needless to say she was in pieces - and to his credit the speaker, when informed was as contrite as could be. The fact of the matter is, it's a subject that is rife with potential egg-shells. Some groups will be fine about it. Some (as we have seen above) will have groups that will do some awesome role-playing with it. And there are some douche-bags that think it's all a big joke and can't understand why it would offend anyone (which just adds even more offence).
In the original case we've been talking about I do agree something more is going on - that player had clearly upset other people pretty deeply, and it's disturbing to wonder what he might have done.
I remember having one of the female characters (male player) in the party getting taken advantage of when she was passed out drunk. What I had not known was that the same thing had happened to the female player who was in the group, and she got pregnant from it.
One of the main reason it is now an amusing story rather than a horror story is that she had had several years to move past it. Still the only thing that let her come to terns with the event in the game and continue to enjoy the game was her character and her character's blood sister tracking down the guy who did it and ending him in a permanent and messy fashion.
I can only imagine what her reaction would have been had it actually been her character.
Wow. I really have been pretty lucky with my experiences.
Realistic or not, if a player (and the DM allowed it) decided to roleplay a rape scene (especially against a fellow player's character) I'd drop out of the game. I have absolutely no tolerance for something as offensive and horrific as rape to be used lightly in a source of my entertainment. That's just crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed.
Anyway, my experience doesn't compare to most of the others posted here, but probably the worst game experience I've had outside of a convention was playing Cyberpunk in the early 90's. The DM had no concept of keeping the game running and in a combat one night it took a minimum of 45 minutes for each player to make and resolve his combat action. I was so bored I actually fell asleep on the floor waiting for the first round action of the first PC. For one round of combat to last almost five hours...well, it kept me from ever playing Cyberpunk again, that's for sure.
I need to bring steel chairs to games, just for players like that.Yeah. I have a high tolerance for sick $&!+ in my games as long as no one minds -- but no tolerance at all if it creeps out the other players and they say as much. And raping women -- even imaginary ones -- is never funny.
What if it's male on male rape at the table? I know of one former DM who used to set up gay rape scenes in his scenarios. And if you reacted badly, he would explain that it was just your 'upbringing' getting in the way, because everyone was really bi, and if you allowed him to explain it to you in private, he'd clear everything up.
Thankfully I never actually gamed with him myself, but the people I've spoken to who did said that he seemed to have a hard time keeping a steady group of gamers.
[What if it's male on male rape at the table?
I've had toothless NPCs threaten it, but never actually had it happen in-game that I can recall. Even if the situation somehow led to it occurring, I'd make sure the details were all left "off-screen," as it were.
And if you reacted badly, he would explain that it was just your 'upbringing' getting in the way, because everyone was really bi, and if you allowed him to explain it to you in private, he'd clear everything up.
This person is badly confused. Bi, gay, or straight, NO ONE wants to be raped.
I played in a FR campaign that went to epic levels. I played a psionic monk, because the original DM approved psionics, but then another DM took over at about level 5 and didn't really dig psionics. He was relatively cool about it, saying I'm just an oddity, there really is very little psionics in the realms and I promised to be gentle and not pull rules stuff on him. Well, being a monk in a 3/3.5 game I was already really ineffectual, but I had fun being the survivor that had ridiculous saves and AC.
By the time we were all level 25-30, most of the characters were running their own small kingdoms or dynasties. One of the characters, a half-orc barbarian turned paladin, in fact became a demigod. Another character had a great wyrm gold dragon as a cohort. I think I was the only person without Leadership at that point. I told the DM that I was going to spend my level 25 feat on Leadership, I mean an epic feat FFS that could do all sorts of insane things, and that I wanted to find a Githzerai monk for a cohort to run my monastery.
He said no. I'm like, well it's a +2 race, and with Leadership I top out with 17th level, so he should be a 15th level character. Nope he said, he can be a 15th level human (2 levels lower than it should be) or a FIRST level githzerai, because that's how powerful they are. Mind you, again, other characters had GREAT WYRM GOLD DRAGONS as cohorts.
I left the game.
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Man, reading these are reminding me of some other player horror" stores. This is more of a roommate horror story mixed with a player horror story.
So my house used to be home to a very lively Exalted game. The Storyteller in charge lived with us. At first I was okay since I was living at home for the summer, but when I came back to live there from summer I found out first hand why they were playing there: They were so loud they had already been asked to not play some places.
They also acted like we (the occupents) were intruding. So much so, at one point I had boiling oil fall onto my arm and burn me, screaming, and they gave me dirty looks. After 10 minutes, ONE of them asked me if I was okay.
And then somehow the game got louder. It turns out that the normal "storyteller" (who was a player, we'll call him insane guy) was angry about rules and RP and what people should do etc and it was causing more and more bad times. Eventually the current storyteller asked him to leave.
Now, the insane guy was a couple d10's short of a dice bag, so he begged (literally) that the storyteller not end the game prematurally. That was something that had never happened to him and he couldn't handle the idea that he had caused it. The storyteller said he'd consider it. He setup a meeting with everyone to discuss a week later.
The insane guy showed up dressed in a black robe with some sort of iron wind chime and a baded katana. I answered the door. When I asked "WTF", he said he was going to his LARP after this. Not knowing anything about LARP, we all thought that was legit.
Anyway, the rest of the roommates leave the room, with me being one room over and the closest person to what was to come. I start to listen in, and the storyteller explains he feels that the game was so rough that he can't continue it. The insane guy then jumps up and draws the sword on the storyteller, yelling "WE HAD A DEAL."
Somehow, calmly, The storyteller immediately asks him to leave. Everyone (me included) are stunned for the next 12 hours that those events just happened.
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And if you reacted badly, he would explain that it was just your 'upbringing' getting in the way, because everyone was really bi, and if you allowed him to explain it to you in private, he'd clear everything up.This person is badly confused. Bi, gay, or straight, NO ONE wants to be raped.
What that calls for is Alan Cummings diving through that guy's window, punching him, and yelling "BISEXUALITY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY." before teleporting out in a puff of smoke.
There's a startling level of acceptance of double standards when it comes to male-on-male and female-on-male rape in geek culture. Romanticizing the notion of "You never realized you'd enjoy until he forced you." is so entrenched that it's no wonder some people really start to buy into it, as depressing as that is.
It's not acceptance, it's self delusion - it's what some people want, so they pretend that it's really OK to themselves.
If you think of or hear of rape in a tabletop game and your first thought isn't "Ok no, that's the dumbest, most insensitive, socially inept, jerkish thing you can do," then there's a bit of a problem.
If at any point in time "GOOD IDEA!" comes to mind, leave my hobby. Do not come back.
I've heard guys thinking that girls , despite the screams, like and hope to be raped.I have used rapes in my games from time to time, but this doesn't mean i think it is a good thing or that a girl really would like that happened to her....on the contrary, i'ld personally kill any rapist i hear of if i had the chance; no lawyer, jury or trials, just shot him down where he stands.
But then i read the PF first Bestiary, read how orcs and ogres have been revamped....and a though came instinctively to my mind "What if a female human or elf PC is captured by such obscenities ?"
I mean, of course a good GM MUST NOT do everything in his powers to make such events happens just for the "fun" of it, and he must not either use such starting plot like " you are prisoner in an ogres camp, the girls in your group at the moments are busy...." but ogres and orcs are well spread all over Avistan, and it is plenty of NPCs and PCs, so one thinks that have to happens sooner or later.
Just curious, how do you handle it ? With the usual , boring clichè of the Deus ex machina ?
I've heard guys thinking that girls , despite the screams, like and hope to be raped.I have used rapes in my games from time to time, but this doesn't mean i think it is a good thing or that a girl really would like that happened to her....on the contrary, i'ld personally kill any rapist i hear of if i had the chance; no lawyer, jury or trials, just shot him down where he stands.
But then i read the PF first Bestiary, read how orcs and ogres have been revamped....and a though came instinctively to my mind "What if a female human or elf PC is captured by such obscenities ?"
I mean, of course a good GM MUST NOT do everything in his powers to make such events happens just for the "fun" of it, and he must not either use such starting plot like " you are prisoner in an ogres camp, the girls in your group at the moments are busy...." but ogres and orcs are well spread all over Avistan, and it is plenty of NPCs and PCs, so one thinks that have to happens sooner or later.
Just curious, how do you handle it ? With the usual , boring clichè of the Deus ex machina ?
I think part of it is how it is handled. There are varying amount of details to go into. You can just say it happened or you can go into graphic details. I'm sure you can guess which the horrable GMs use and what the good ones use.
Also it doesn't have to happen to every captive or happen the second they get captured. Maybe there is a chance for the party to save them before it occurs. This came up twice during the Savage Tide game we played and in both cases we made it in time to prevent that. It was a threat that hightened tension at least as much as the death of the caputred person was.
I once had the players in my game rescuing a girl from a dragon (she later turned out to BE the dragon, but that's another story). When they found her I described her as looking "thoroughly used". Because I said it lightly and briefly they got the point without being horrified. It didn't drag the game down, it didn't say in any way that rape was okay, but it did let them know what happened. It was interested how carefully and tenderly they treated the girl.
Despite the fact that the players have joked about it happening to captured characters (sometimes very tastelessly) it has almost never happened in my game. It's going to be a possibility, but I try very hard to avoid it, never condone it and always give the players a chance to do something about it.
Just to make things clear...i always used rapes as background story for female char. I mean "when i use them they are just" not "every background i write is based on" and even then i ask the permission of the playing girl to use such a background for her...only have a female pc raped in her story without asking first if it is me who use the char.
Years ago i GMed a player who had the (very bad) habit of selling girls traveling with him ( both PC and NPC )into slavery or to rapist. His PC always got killed at the first occasion....enough said i hope.
If I am a DM and someone wants to rape or sell people in game, they are no longer welcome at my table, period.
Hell, if I'm a player and someone wants to do that, it's decision time, because either they're walking away or I am.
If you think of or hear of rape in a tabletop game and your first thought isn't "Ok no, that's the dumbest, most insensitive, socially inept, jerkish thing you can do," then there's a bit of a problem.
If at any point in time "GOOD IDEA!" comes to mind, leave my hobby. Do not come back.
I hate to tell you this, but this is actually legit. One of the tactical feats in the Complete Warrior actually does allow exactly this. Frustrating I know, but he wasn't cheating or making things up necessarily. I will say that 7 or 8 levels is a bit much.
If he'd done it legitimately, then I wouldn't be complaining. He didn't do it legit, though. I got to look at the bad guy's character sheet several months after the session was over and he didn't have that particular feat. He apparently had the Barb murder my Scout because it would impress upon us just how tough the guy was. At least, that was my assumption.
He pretty much took this bad guy straight outta Hellboy 2. Gave him a spear that, on scoring a critical, broke its tip off into the target and started causing continual Con damage. This particular DM has a habit of stating up movie/video game/tv villains, changing their name, and using them as D&D villains.
I've heard guys thinking that girls , despite the screams, like and hope to be raped.I have used rapes in my games from time to time, but this doesn't mean i think it is a good thing or that a girl really would like that happened to her....on the contrary, i'ld personally kill any rapist i hear of if i had the chance; no lawyer, jury or trials, just shot him down where he stands.
But then i read the PF first Bestiary, read how orcs and ogres have been revamped....and a though came instinctively to my mind "What if a female human or elf PC is captured by such obscenities ?"
I mean, of course a good GM MUST NOT do everything in his powers to make such events happens just for the "fun" of it, and he must not either use such starting plot like " you are prisoner in an ogres camp, the girls in your group at the moments are busy...." but ogres and orcs are well spread all over Avistan, and it is plenty of NPCs and PCs, so one thinks that have to happens sooner or later.
Just curious, how do you handle it ? With the usual , boring clichè of the Deus ex machina ?
There are some good ways to handle it, and they don't include the rape even happening.
1) The orcs/ogres single out the female they want first (the most capable) and drag her off some place private, little realising that she is about to kick their a$$'s and head up the escape attempt.
2) With the guards distracted by the prospect of sex, the other PCs get free and intercede before anything too bad can happen.
3) "Take the females to the chief's chambers!" (chief is conveniently absent until after the escape)
4) "Can't we rape them?" "No, boss says they are worth more intact."
5) Make sure beforehand that the players are OK with it and want to use it as character development if there is any possibility of it actually happening.