Alatariel |
Well, long story short, I need to find a way to keep the game fun for all my players.
Each session has to have a combat to make 2 of them happy. One of these two has a very optimized character, and has streaks of dice luck. As in really, you crit on a 19-20 and you've rolled 6 crits out of your last 10 rolls. He hides his dice and cranes his neck to see mt rolls as well as damage sheets for the monsters- hps taken.
Lucky, with a tendancy to fudge.
The other also tries to optimize, but has less of a tendency for 1 trick ponies- he has a variety of ways he can kill things.
The third has the worst dice luck I've ever had to deal with. I've watched him roll below 10 on a d20 15 consecutive times. He tends to try to optimize, but the dice smack him around.
The fourth likes to play blaster wizard/fighters. He tries to optimize, but likes to have odd stuff that isn't going to contribute to his build.
Players 1 and 2 tend to pout if one of them consistently does more damage than the other. Player 1 also tends to ignore any info that isn't given in the context of a combat- and then complain when ignoring things bites him in the rump.
Player 3 will bring the game to a screeching halt to look up rules if he disagrees with the GM's ruling- looking it up anyway even if I say we'll run with this interpretation now and make a permanent ruling after the game.
Player 4 refuses to talk in game without actively being asked what his char is doing, but tends to get upset when his character (who won't volunteer anything) isn't consulted when the party is making plans.
They're all 17 level, ran through CoCT, want to continue playing these characters. Any advice on dealing with these quirks(that doesn't involve ammo) as well as how to challenge PC1 while not killing PC3, who cannot make a save. The last fight? He cast quickened true strike for his touch spell- then rolled a 1. Meanwhile, PC1 does 100+ damage a round, not counting at least 1 crit/attack sequence.
I like them all, but I'm getting close to my wit's end to make the game fun for everyone.
Evil Lincoln |
Hm. You've played an entire AP, so you likely know better than anyone here how it's done.
Perhaps the problem lies within, and you are merely burning out from trying to manage this cast of characters?
It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how to make each of them happy. I would try to rehabilitate your fudger by having everyone roll their dice in the open, and maybe using an Action/Luck point rule so that he feels less vulnerable, and the player with the horrible luck streak has something to fall back on. Use the new dice rule as an excuse to enforce rolling in the open, and use the "rocket tag" nature of higher level play as your rationale for introducing the new dice rule. That way, it's all just logical new policy, and nothing is anyone's "fault".
Bad Dice luck player probably only refers to the rules so much as a cushion against his horrible luck.
You do need to continue asking player 4 what he wants to do. It's a good idea to do this anyway, cycling from player to player, because it lets you control the spotlight of the game. If you just let domineering players talk and talk, they hog the spotlight. Use the quiet player as a way to break the ranting streaks, but cycle around to the others before/after so that he doesn't feel singled out either. I sometimes manage a "soft initiative" to address this type of problem... you know, not with actions or anything, but just popping around to each player every 30 seconds or so methodically. I even do it on a list so players expect the rhythm.
As for player 1, the optimizer.... Pathfinder is his game really. It's designed to give him pleasure AND to keep him in line.
In the end, you won't find answers here from the forumites (or me), you will only get general advice. Remember you know your players, you ran 17 levels of game for them, and if there's a problem here it's probably that you need a break or a change. Do something nice for yourself as GM once in a while, and make sure your players know where you stand and how lucky they are to have a committed, long-term campaign GM.
Alatariel |
Hey, just hearing another perspective helps!
It's a lot of bookkeeping to run a challenging fight at that level- at least for me- and so I'm also trying to get tips on ways to make the fights challenging without save or dies. Because P1 will always save and P3 will fail.
The trying to reform the fudging- well, I'm going to try, but his dice are dark/uncontrasted and he picks them up to let you know what he rolled. Otherwise you have to hold them really close to see. There's been the occasional annoyed thought about his choices in that arena.
I like your soft initiative idea, though I'm going to add to it that if you've been asked what you're doing 3+ times and do not answer, please grouch elsewhere clause =).
Do you find that many littler guys make for more fun? The last CT fight (with its dozens of participants, since they blew off dealing with the little threats to go after the big one)- nearly got them killed. That fight took hours.
But a big guy can usually be swamped fast, IME. So seeking a sweet spot, I guess.
Thanks for the advice! And patience with rambling
tejón RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
The trying to reform the fudging- well, I'm going to try, but his dice are dark/uncontrasted and he picks them up to let you know what he rolled. Otherwise you have to hold them really close to see.
I had a player like this. I finally just came out and told him after the third 20 in a row, that kind of luck is ridiculous and I need to see proof. Get dice that can be seen without picking them up (here, use mine if you want!) and roll them toward me. And to be fair, I enforced the policy for everyone from that point forward, along with a second one: rolls made before I call for them, don't count.
Turned out he actually did have pretty good luck in general, but not quite AS good. :)
Evil Lincoln |
There have been long conversations on the ethics surrounding the fudging issue, a forum search might turn up some helpful things.
My own strategy, restated: incorporate it into other logical reforms that will add to the player's sense of security in their characters' fates — that seems to be a theme amongst two of your players. A re-roll, Luck, or Action point system might address both problems (bad luck and fudging), while providing a cover for a policy change like roll-in-public.
Soft initiative works really well for me, I hope it works for you. It is wise to explain to the players that it is different from combat initiative, and basically just a tool to help the GM keep things moving. I permit players to interrupt for ideas/suggestions pertaining to the current scene, but not really for jokes or idle speculation *unless they're funny.