I'm playing a monk in a new campaign and we had 25 pt buy so I thought it'd be a great opportunity to try out the MAD intensive Monk/DD. I'm looking for any suggestions, critiques or fresh ideas. The first level and stats are locked in because we just began play.
Using the Tiefling variants in Council of Thieves, I started with Oni-Spawn Tiefling (+2 Str & Wis, -2 CHA) with a +2 CHA replacing the Darkness SLA.
Starting Stats:
STR 20
DEX 14
CON 10
INT 7
WIS 16
CHA 12
Traits: Magical Knack (Sorcerer), Reactionary
Favored Class Monk
Starting Feats Toughness, Dodge
My current plan is 4 Monk/1 Sorc(black draconic)/4 DD/??
I'll get the +4 Str from DD, be able to cast 2nd level spells, and have only sacrificed 1 BAB from a full monk progression.
My current plan for a spell list is:
0-level Spells
Acid Splash
Detect Magic
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Prestidigitation
1st-level spells
Enlarge Person
Mage Armor (Bonus Bloodline)
Shield
True Strike
2nd Level Spells
Invisibility
Resist Energy (Bonus Bloodline)
I was planning to take Monk for the remaining 11 levels, but I'm wondering whether I should try to get into Eldritch Knight.
The other options are to take either a level of fighter or ranger then EK it out, or take DD to 8 then get into EK from there. I'd need to get CHA on a headband to cast anything higher than second level, but that isn't a huge deal. The main thing is that I'm trying to play a monk with slight arcane support, rather than a true hybrid.
Feats I'm planning on or considering: Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus(unarmed), Intimidating Prowess, Dazzling Display, Imp Crit(Unarmed), Imp Grapple, Step Up, Following Step, Medusa's Wrath.
I'd like opinions on which level progression sounds closer to ideal, whether the spell or feat lists need tweaking, or any other improvements I could make.
The low Con doesn't appeal to me, but YMMV. I'd recommend using a Temple Sword (at least, at first) instead of unarmed strikes, but again YMMV.
I have a Monk/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple I'm using, too (see my profile). The worst point is Monk 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 1 -- you're a terrible caster, and you're two points of BAB behind a regular monk. It should get better from there, though.
Yeah, I mentioned if going EK I'd take a dip of fighter or ranger.
The main question is whether the extra casting EK provides will enhance his melee enough. It's the problem of self-buff classes. You don't want to spend much more than one round buffing in combat so most spells need to be long(ish) duration.
For example, haste at 3rd and invis, greater at 4th would be great, but they're both rounds/lvl and you're spending time casting them instead of flurrying or grapple/tripping.
The low Con doesn't appeal to me, but YMMV. I'd recommend using a Temple Sword (at least, at first) instead of unarmed strikes, but again YMMV.
I have a Monk/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple I'm using, too (see my profile). The worst point is Monk 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 1 -- you're a terrible caster, and you're two points of BAB behind a regular monk. It should get better from there, though.
Are you planning on jumping out at DD4 or sticking with it longer? My main point of consternation is deciding what to do after monk4/sorc1/dd4.
As to the HP, toughness bumps me to an effective 12 con for HP purposes and almost all my favored class boni are going to hp. I know Con is life but I wanted to maximize damage potential with this build.
BTW, I like the Abyssal Disciple concept. Is that a house-ruled variant, or does that option exist in the books somewhere?
Personal preference here, but I would not take True Strike. Takes too long to be useful in my experience. Cast it, then use it next round.
I would take Vanish from the APG which is almost as good as Invisibility, IMHO and then take something like Mirror Image or another nifty second level spell.
Personal preference here, but I would not take True Strike. Takes too long to be useful in my experience. Cast it, then use it next round.
I would take Vanish from the APG which is almost as good as Invisibility, IMHO and then take something like Mirror Image or another nifty second level spell.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't really like vanish.
For combat purposes they are almost equivalent, but Invisibility lasts minutes/level instead of up to 5 rounds (30 seconds) and thus is much better for sneaking around or escaping.
Maybe obscuring mist to replace true strike, unless there are any other ideas.
Are you planning on jumping out at DD4 or sticking with it longer? My main point of consternation is deciding what to do after monk4/sorc1/dd4.
That's an excellent question. I've mulled it back and forth, and I think I'll probably go something like
Sorcerer 1Monk 4
Dragon Disciple 4
Monk +4
Dragon Disciple +6
Sorcerer +1 (or Monk +1)
But that can change without notice. :-) I like the idea of finishing off the prestige class, even if it peters out in usefulness towards the end.
As to the HP, toughness bumps me to an effective 12 con for HP purposes and almost all my favored class boni are going to hp. I know Con is life but I wanted to maximize damage potential with this build.
I guess, but I would have gone with 14 Con and 14 Wis (and Toughness and the extra HP) instead of 10 Con and 16 Wis; in fact, that's what I did with my own monk. But as you say, it's too late to change anyways. I probably would also go with one of the monk variants from the APG, like the Ki Mystic, but that might not be your bag.
BTW, I like the Abyssal Disciple concept. Is that a house-ruled variant, or does that option exist in the books somewhere?
It's just a house-ruled variant for our Savage Tide game.
Are you planning on jumping out at DD4 or sticking with it longer? My main point of consternation is deciding what to do after monk4/sorc1/dd4.That's an excellent question. I've mulled it back and forth, and I think I'll probably go something like
Sorcerer 1
Monk 4
Dragon Disciple 4
Monk +4
Dragon Disciple +6
Sorcerer +1 (or Monk +1)But that can change without notice. :-) I like the idea of finishing off the prestige class, even if it peters out in usefulness towards the end.
As to the HP, toughness bumps me to an effective 12 con for HP purposes and almost all my favored class boni are going to hp. I know Con is life but I wanted to maximize damage potential with this build.I guess, but I would have gone with 14 Con and 14 Wis (and Toughness and the extra HP) instead of 10 Con and 16 Wis; in fact, that's what I did with my own monk. But as you say, it's too late to change anyways. I probably would also go with one of the monk variants from the APG, like the Ki Mystic, but that might not be your bag.
BTW, I like the Abyssal Disciple concept. Is that a house-ruled variant, or does that option exist in the books somewhere?It's just a house-ruled variant for our Savage Tide game.
Couldn't find a variant I liked. Ki mystic didn't fit thematically, my character is LE and in pursuit of physical perfection/power.
I strongly considered both hungry ghost and four winds. The main issue with hungry ghost was trading stunning fist for punishing blow which is somewhat underwhelming. I know I can purchase stunning fist back, but not until level 12. The other hungry ghost abilities don't sound extremely reliable. The healing is based on monk levels, which will be stunted.
As for four Winds, the main deal breaker was the loss of abundant step. If you could use the 3 standard actions gained for casting spells then maybe, but I'm looking forward to my enlarged monk casting invisible right before abundant stepping behind that nasty caster.
Edit: The 3 standard actions you get for Slow Time are very restricted:
"take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. The monk cannot use these actions to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions.." If anyone can think of a really good use for them other than insane mobility, Four Winds might be more worth it.
My GM will let me change to a variant monk if I choose to within the first few sessions, so if you know of a good reason to take something else, please share.
Edit 2: Totally overlooked part of Sipping Demon from the Hungry Monk variant. The other abilities were on crit or kill, but Sipping Demon gets a temp HP per melee hit. With a flurry of blows, that's really nice damage mitigation right there. Hmmm...
Couldn't find a variant I liked. Ki mystic didn't fit thematically, my character is LE and in pursuit of physical perfection/power.
I strongly considered both hungry ghost and four winds. The main issue with hungry ghost was trading stunning fist for punishing blow which is somewhat underwhelming. I know I can purchase stunning fist back, but not until level 12. The other hungry ghost abilities don't sound extremely reliable. The healing is based on monk levels, which will be stunted.
I don't care for Stunning Fist; in practice, I've rarely seen it work (either the attack misses or the target saves, and constructs & undead are immune). I'd just as soon have Punishing Blow, which has a mildly interesting no-save option.
But I don't really like the Hungry Ghost variant because I think it's a poorly-thought-out mechanic. I'm imagining a monk going through town kicking puppies to raise his ki pool. Lame.
By the way, Wholeness of Body depends on your monk levels anyway; there's no difference between that and Life Funnel (other than puppy-kicking).
And note that you'll be getting Abundant Step at level 17 at the earliest. That's way, way, way, way in the future; I wouldn't start dreaming about it, just yet. :-) (But maybe you have more luck with high-level D&D games falling apart than I do.)
Likewise with Sipping Demon -- that will be coming at level 18 at the earliest.
Couldn't find a variant I liked. Ki mystic didn't fit thematically, my character is LE and in pursuit of physical perfection/power.
I strongly considered both hungry ghost and four winds. The main issue with hungry ghost was trading stunning fist for punishing blow which is somewhat underwhelming. I know I can purchase stunning fist back, but not until level 12. The other hungry ghost abilities don't sound extremely reliable. The healing is based on monk levels, which will be stunted.
I don't care for Stunning Fist; in practice, I've rarely seen it work (either the attack misses or the target saves, and constructs & undead are immune). I'd just as soon have Punishing Blow, which has a mildly interesting no-save option.
But I don't really like the Hungry Ghost variant because I think it's a poorly-thought-out mechanic. I'm imagining a monk going through town kicking puppies to raise his ki pool. Lame.
By the way, Wholeness of Body depends on your monk levels anyway; there's no difference between that and Life Funnel (other than puppy-kicking).
And note that you'll be getting Abundant Step at level 17 at the earliest. That's way, way, way, way in the future; I wouldn't start dreaming about it, just yet. :-) (But maybe you have more luck with high-level D&D games falling apart than I do.)
I see the hungry monk options being open for abuse by childish players... I think I can avoid that kind of behavior.
As far as the level cap, this campaign is basically our prequel to the Witchwar Legacy module which begins at 17th level. Our group's been gaming together for years and I've yet to see a campaign dissolve before conclusion. We stand a very good chance of seeing those upper levels. ;)
In that case, by all means go with the Hungry Ghost monk, IMO.
If 3.5 material is allowed check out Aescetic Mage (Complete Adventurer). It allows you to add your Cha bns to AC instead of Wis.
Abjurant Champion>EK
There's more, but let me know if 3.5 is allowed before i go to far into it.
If 3.5 material is allowed check out Aescetic Mage (Complete Adventurer). It allows you to add your Cha bns to AC instead of Wis.
Abjurant Champion>EK
There's more, but let me know if 3.5 is allowed before i go to far into it.
Nah, Pathfinder only. Core rulebook, APG, and adventure path options are in.
I'm playing a monk in a new campaign and we had 25 pt buy so I thought it'd be a great opportunity to try out the MAD intensive Monk/DD. I'm looking for any suggestions, critiques or fresh ideas.I think many people come at this from the wrong angle.
Rather than thinking 'I want to mix this class with that class' I would suggest that you consider what you want your character to do, then look for classes and combinations thereof that can help you achieve that.
Many people wind up with multiclassed characters based on combining certain classes and then see what they can do with them. It seems like putting the cart before the horse.
Put a picture in your head of what all your PC is going to be doing. If you are going in too many directions realize that your PC might not be able to do anything well if you scatter yourself too far.
-James
Flavor-wise, he's a kid who was raised on the streets, abandoned by his parents. Due to his freakish looks (patches of black scales and draconic horns) he was shunned and rejected by the people of his town. He lived by stealing and scavenging through refuse until a strange man found him, took him away from the town into seclusion and began training him to tap into his inner powers. The man himself is a green dragon disciple. I look at it as a rare group of monks with latent draconic power which they train to bring forward.
The concept is to play a darker themed monk focused on power. Mechanically, I want him to be a purely destructive force in terms of combat. That's why I'm trying to maximize strength and thus damage potential.
Speaking of which, can you flurry with a temple sword if you're wielding it 2-handed? If so, that would probably trump unarmed simply due to the multiplication of this character's massive strength.
Edit: regarding those house rules, they are very reasonable, but I'd like to stay within the RAW. Thanks for the suggestions.
Speaking of which, can you flurry with a temple sword if you're wielding it 2-handed? If so, that would probably trump unarmed simply due to the multiplication of this character's massive strength.
If you're flurrying, it doesn't matter whether you hold it in one or two hands -- you still only get 1x Str bonus with it. But the better critical range and the higher damage for single attacks make it a good choice at low levels (until you get a Monk's Robe, in your case).