Fractured DM |
Hey all ever since Ravenloft "disappeared" the rules for Lycanthropy have been a little lite. One of my players characters has been afflicted with Lycanthropy and in my campaign world there are two ways to remove it - remove curse from a 12th level cleric or kill the original Lycanthrope that started the bloodline (yeah I'm a big fan of the old Werewolf TV show).
So if he fails to do either he involuntarily turns into a werecreature on the 3 nights of the full moon. He also has no control while changed and doesn't remember much the next day.
My questions are:-
Does he automatically become evil (the werecreature is evil) when he changes or only if he kills someone and eats them?
If he's able to lock himself up for those 3 nights will he eventually be able to control his lycanthrope side or his he always doomed to be a DM control monster when he changes?
Any advice would be great
FDM
ZappoHisbane |
Hey all ever since Ravenloft "disappeared" the rules for Lycanthropy have been a little lite. One of my players characters has been afflicted with Lycanthropy and in my campaign world there are two ways to remove it - remove curse from a 12th level cleric or kill the original Lycanthrope that started the bloodline (yeah I'm a big fan of the old Werewolf TV show).
So if he fails to do either he involuntarily turns into a werecreature on the 3 nights of the full moon. He also has no control while changed and doesn't remember much the next day.
My questions are:-
Does he automatically become evil (the werecreature is evil) when he changes or only if he kills someone and eats them?
If he's able to lock himself up for those 3 nights will he eventually be able to control his lycanthrope side or his he always doomed to be a DM control monster when he changes?
Any advice would be great
FDM
While I'm not familiar with the meat of the content, the official Pathfinder take on lycanthropes is covered in more detail in this product. You might find your answers there.
Abraham spalding |
From the template:
A creature that catches lycanthropy becomes an afflicted lycanthrope, but shows no symptoms (and does not gain any of the template's adjustments or abilities) until the night of the next full moon, when the victim involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity. The character remains in animal form until the next dawn and remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he makes a DC 20 Will save, in which case he becomes aware of his condition.A remove disease or heal spell cast by a cleric of 12th level or higher cures the affliction, provided the character receives the spell within 3 days of the infecting lycanthrope's attack. Alternatively, consuming a dose of wolfsbane gives an afflicted lycanthrope a new Fortitude save to recover from lycanthropy.
From the monster description:
This isn't to say that good-aligned werewolves are unknown, but they're certainly a minority among their kind, and most werewolves are evil murderers who delight in the hunt and the succulent taste of raw meat.
From the affliction:
Type curse, injury; Save Fortitude DC 15 negates, Will DC 15 to avoid effectsOnset the next full moon; Frequency on the night of every full moon or whenever the target is injured
Effect target transforms into a wolf under the GM's control until the next morning
So nothing says he has to be evil at all. Especially since he isn't in control when the curse is active. As such I wouldn't hold his actions against him.
General Chaos |
Were one of my players afflicted by Lycanthropy I would rule that during the change (and under my control) they would be evil, and vulnerable to [evil] affecting effects. RAW - it doesn't affect their alignment, and I wouldn't hold their alignment to things they did while transformed. Though the law *would* hold them accountable for their actions.
If a character wanted to master their Lycanthropy (and I was for some reason feeling that generous) I'd consider letting them take it at level up as a level adjustment. Except I hate LA's - I would ask they take an NPC class level instead of core/base class to make up for it.
Rezdave |
My questions are:
Are you looking to play PF RAW/Official, or are you seeking advice on how to handle this?
I had a PC become a lycanthrope in a campaign a few years ago. Because I had access to the Dragon mag. that covered "Levels" as a lycanthrope and the PC had enough XP to level at the time, I gave him the option of taking a Level of Werewolf and gaining some control over his shifting.
He gained access to the Control Shape Skill and a limited number of stat increases. Otherwise, I used my experience with Werewolf: The Apocalypse to wing some of the RP stuff, like a tendency to shift into hybrid form when he took damage in battle.
The PC spent some time studying from a mentor lycanthrope to learn to control his form, balance his bestial aspect with this human aspect and so forth (it was a culture of humanoids where the elite warriors became lycanthropes) and not give himself over to the "wolf".
Of course, all this was "off-the-books" rules and RP, but it was a lot of fun. By using Will Saves and the Control Shape skill we were able to keep some degree of precedent within the mechanics.
What was really fun, also, was that none of the other Players/PCs initially know about his change, and the afflicted-Player did a good job of keeping it covered, all while his personality and demeanor slowly changed from a cultured urban-type to a wise-but-gruff Grizzly Adams over the course of several sessions.
FWIW,
Rez
ProfessorCirno |
I don't know the PF rules for lycanthropy as well, but in the 3.5 rules, until you knew you were inflicted (which you could discover with a wisdom check, or by someone flat out telling you), you changed every night of the full moon and more or less became an NPC, acting to that were-creature's standard alignment. After you knew, you gained the Control Shape skill, with the caveat that EVERY time you changed shape, you had to make a will save or your alignment moved one step towards the were-creature's natural alignment.
Of course, after a game I played in, this rule was ignored. Due to me being a were-bear (lawful good were-creature ;)) who's modus operandi would be to purposefully inflict evil people, thus giving them a supernatural power that slowly turned them lawful good :p
Abraham spalding |
I'm playing a character currently that might present and interesting way to go about representing lycanthropy:
Half Orc Barbarian (invulnerable rager), lesser beast totem with the razortusk feat. When raging I have claws, a bite, and I have the DR from invulnerable rager... just like a lycanthrope would have... including stat boosts while "changed"
It requires two levels of barbarian but I think it represents lycanthropy well enough.
The Admiral Jose Monkamuck |
Hey all ever since Ravenloft "disappeared" the rules for Lycanthropy have been a little lite. One of my players characters has been afflicted with Lycanthropy and in my campaign world there are two ways to remove it - remove curse from a 12th level cleric or kill the original Lycanthrope that started the bloodline (yeah I'm a big fan of the old Werewolf TV show).
So if he fails to do either he involuntarily turns into a werecreature on the 3 nights of the full moon. He also has no control while changed and doesn't remember much the next day.
My questions are:-
Does he automatically become evil (the werecreature is evil) when he changes or only if he kills someone and eats them?
If he's able to lock himself up for those 3 nights will he eventually be able to control his lycanthrope side or his he always doomed to be a DM control monster when he changes?
Any advice would be great
FDM
I'm not going to speak to the specific rules, but I will address the turning evil aspect. Getting an Evil alignment should be based on the character's CHOICES. If he is turning into a creature, has no control over the creature and doesn't even remember what he does then his alignment shouldn't change.
It makes werecreatures a lot more interesting if they could be sitting in town Good or Neutrally aligned and only flip to evil when the kirk out on a full moon. It makes them a lot harder to find.
Now if you want to have it start to affect him at other times that could lead to some great RP. As the GM start to encourage him to commit evil acts. Maybe even make him make a few saving throws to resist temptation. Eventually he will either resist temptation and find a cure or he will give in and embrace the beast inside. This provides a great RP opportunity and make the alignment the player's choice.
KenderKin |
Used to make the player who contracted lycanthropy turn into a creature matching his alignment.......
For example a werebear or wereboar...
Like to keep Pc's on their toes!
Making the lycanthropy more unpredicatable in nature than all that...
Also forces lycanthropes to turn people who become one of their own rather than some other type.....
I admit fully this was my idea and nothing to do with any RAW at any time/place or edition.......
Also the first time they change they sprout hair, grow teeth, and claws and added strength.....But not yet enough to know what form they are taking on!
Rezdave |
Getting an Evil alignment should be based on the character's CHOICES. If he is turning into a creature, has no control over the creature and doesn't even remember what he does then his alignment shouldn't change.
I generally agree, but I took a page from the Vampire: The Masquerade concept, with the idea of an inflicted lycanthrope's Humanity and their new Bestial aspect involved in an inner conflict, vying for dominion of the character's soul even (or perhaps especially) if they themselves weren't aware of it.
This was the reason the PC in my game studied with a mentor and learned to harmonize these two aspects of his nature. It allowed him to begin to control his changes as well as mitigate any tendency towards alignment shift. As mentioned above, the Player did a great job of handling a "slow reveal" for the Table.
R.
Alatariel |
Coming from a cautionary stance:
PC- 1/2 orc optimized for combat, al N ('cause all those nasty spells affect you less if you're neutral) got unlucky ( for the only time in memory) on his save after a fight with wererats. Begged to continue to play the char.
Granted reluctantly. Then he bought a hat of disguise and spent all his time in hybrid form. When reminded that he needed to make a control shape to change back after full moon, whined that Int/Wis were his dump stats and essentailly refused to play until his char was back in hybrid form, with all that lovely dex and DR.
Then I wept with joy 2 months later when the PF rules came out and I declared the campaign defunct and started a strict PF core game.
YMMV
Shar Tahl |
Kobold Quarterly #11 has a GREAT section on PFRPG Were-stuff. The mechanic is based on gaining levels as a Were-thing, with the top level being the full form and shape-changing. Were-rat is a 3 level progression, were-wolf is a 4 level progression, and were-bear is a 8 level progression.
One of my players was afflicted by a were-rat in my Second Darkness campaign and will be advancing in it through the second book. To give a slight penalty to match the power increase, I am using the mechanic to have the shape-change be painful and need a will save or she takes hit point damage and a point of con damage
Eric Hinkle |
Kobold Quarterly #11 has a GREAT section on PFRPG Were-stuff. The mechanic is based on gaining levels as a Were-thing, with the top level being the full form and shape-changing. Were-rat is a 3 level progression, were-wolf is a 4 level progression, and were-bear is a 8 level progression.
One of my players was afflicted by a were-rat in my Second Darkness campaign and will be advancing in it through the second book. To give a slight penalty to match the power increase, I am using the mechanic to have the shape-change be painful and need a will save or she takes hit point damage and a point of con damage
Thanks for this bit of information. It looks like it'd be very useful.