Faladarian |
Hello everyone. Just got into Pathfinder today and was wondering how much compatibility with other OGL or DnD 3.0 and up products it has.
Im speaking more specifically about the World of Warcraft RPG written under OGL by Sword and Sorcery and Diablo II "Diablerie" and "To Hell and Back" written for Dungeons and Dragons 3.0
Thanx all ahead of time for the help.
Kolokotroni |
Well for 3.0 it will be a little work but you should be able to do the conversion without alot of difficulty. The basics are still the same, you just have to keep an eye out for certain key differences. There are a few 3.5 prestige classes I have used in pathfinder games with a little re-writing.
you can find the 3.5 to pathfinder conversion guide here It wont be a huge leap to extend that to 3.0.
Kolokotroni |
Well alot is pointed out in the guide, but other then the obvious add ins (0 level spells are now cantrips, combat manuevers, new class abilities like a cleric's channel energy) there are some more subtle ones to consider. Some classic feats have been retooled. Power attack for instance is a set penalty for a set bonus based on your BAB. Other feats and abilities that in 3.x behaved like power attack (take a -x penalty on attack to gain a +x bonus on attacks, defence, cake baking) should be changed to match.
Also things like the fact that fewer things in pathfinder are immune to critical hits (and thus precision) damamge means you need to take a good look at some monster types (especially undead). Where once a rapier was all but useless against a zombie (especially in the hands of a rogue for instance) that is no longer the case, so monsters need to be adjusted in ability and/or CR accordingly. There are also new standards for things like AC and SAVES for monsters based on CR, something that was haphazard at best in 3.x so again, monsters need to be looked at. And I am sure the WoW RPG has its on bestiary to fit the setting.
Thazar |
For the most part you still have the same basic game. Classes, races, hit points, skills, feats, spells, saves etc all still exist in the same basic format.
Key things to check out are Combat Maneuvers (new mechanic), Skills (some consolidations), Channel Energy (Cleric class feature), and read up on any class, race, feat, or spell you want to use for a specific character.
But someone that knows how to play 3E D&D will know how to play pathfinder. Good luck and have fun.
MisterSlanky |
It was designed for backwards compatibility, so other than the modifications noted above (with some additional mods if you're going all the way back to 3.0), it'll work fairly well.
Some things to note though:
Pathfinder has been designed at a higher baseline level of power. This was to help facilitate each class "getting something" at every level. A lot of old 3.0/3.5 modules will seem quite easy for Pathfinder characters.
Pathfinder has redefined what it is to be a Prestige Class, due in no small part to how they are treating their core classes differently. Yes they will be compatible, but in a lot of cases they may not fit stats-wise (like reduced saves) or requirements-wise.
This leads to the big one. Just because it is compatible doesn't mean it should be. You will see a lot of comments around here about this. Many players are now running under the philosophy of "Pathfinder or Bust" and seriously limiting the use of 3.5 rules and additions. This is due in a large part to the perceived power creep in a lot of the later products. I'd advise you to consider what you're allowing if you allow older materials (I limit myself to fluff, a handful of interesting magic items, and monster manual creatures when I go back into my older library as a GM for example).
Faladarian |
Yeah thats what I was hoping for.
Basically, I only plan using the WoW RPG for the detailed crafting mechanics and maybe the thing they added that lets you govern a town like in a RTS.
From the Diablo II material i planned on utilizing the extensive random treasure and container contents tables as well as the bestiary in the back.
I also have a bestiary called "Manual of Monsters" for the Warcraft RPG.
Basically I'm hoping to be "Cheap" for awhile and not have to buy the bestiary for PF lol. If I can use some of my older material to provide basic monsters and provide templates to create my own for more exciting encounters (which would include the new rules for CMB and CMD and the like.)
I guess my ultimate question would be... Would 5 CR1 Monsters from 3.0/3.5 equal out to the same as 5 CR 1 monsters in the PF Bestiary?
P.S. Thanx so much for all the help. again : )
MisterSlanky |
I guess my ultimate question would be... Would 5 CR1 Monsters from 3.0/3.5 equal out to the same as 5 CR 1 monsters in the PF Bestiary?
Unfortunately, no. One of the major changes was updates/upgrades to the CR system to help make it fit better. For example, a level 2 PC would be CR 2, while a level 2 NPC is now only CR 1. There are other significant adjustments to some of the other creatures in the bestiary.
As I said, they're all compatible, but in that particular case, not 100%.
Kolokotroni |
Yeah thats what I was hoping for.
Basically, I only plan using the WoW RPG for the detailed crafting mechanics and maybe the thing they added that lets you govern a town like in a RTS.
From the Diablo II material i planned on utilizing the extensive random treasure and container contents tables as well as the bestiary in the back.
I also have a bestiary called "Manual of Monsters" for the Warcraft RPG.
Basically I'm hoping to be "Cheap" for awhile and not have to buy the bestiary for PF lol. If I can use some of my older material to provide basic monsters and provide templates to create my own for more exciting encounters (which would include the new rules for CMB and CMD and the like.)
I guess my ultimate question would be... Would 5 CR1 Monsters from 3.0/3.5 equal out to the same as 5 CR 1 monsters in the PF Bestiary?
P.S. Thanx so much for all the help. again : )
well in a salute to how aweome paizo is, you dont have to buy the bestiary. You can get the stats for all the bestiary monsters here
Most monsters convert pretty easily, and as long as you dont feel life feeling out the CR's rather then it being a hard and fast rule you should be fine with quick conversions of monsters from 3.0 and 3.5. It wont be exact, that is for sure so you will have to do some guestimating on CR.
If you want to use crafting from something 3.0 OGL make sure you take a look at the pathfinder crafting rules, they changed somethings, (the bigest one being that they removed the xp cost). I dont know the rules from the WoW system so I am not sure how that might change things so take a look at it.
Faladarian |
Faladarian wrote:I guess my ultimate question would be... Would 5 CR1 Monsters from 3.0/3.5 equal out to the same as 5 CR 1 monsters in the PF Bestiary?Unfortunately, no. One of the major changes was updates/upgrades to the CR system to help make it fit better. For example, a level 2 PC would be CR 2, while a level 2 NPC is now only CR 1. There are other significant adjustments to some of the other creatures in the bestiary.
As I said, they're all compatible, but in that particular case, not 100%.
Does this mean that the CR of a creature is now comparable to 1 PC of that lvl?
Such as: A normal encounter for 1 lvl1 Fighter would be 1 CR1. -or- 3 lvl1 PCs would be 3 CR1s or a CR3 ( Or any combination that adds up to X where X is the combined party lvl.)
MisterSlanky |
Does this mean that the CR of a creature is now comparable to 1 PC of that lvl?
Such as: A normal encounter for 1 lvl1 Fighter would be 1 CR1. -or- 3 lvl1 PCs would be 3 CR1s or a CR3 ( Or any combination that adds up to X where X is the combined party lvl.)
Nope. CR is still based off a four person group. A CR 1 encounter for a group of four level 1's is considered "easy". It's all outlined in the Core Rulebook too.
Faladarian |
Would it be safe to assume then that the Creatures from the older game systems are weaker in comparison? If so i think it might be fun to use them in increased number and giving a shade less XP for them. Thats similar to the minions system in dnd 4e.
The only annoying thing about them is you 1 shot them no matter what you do as long as you can score a hit. Its hard to keep people form meta gaming when they fight 30 things they one shot lol.
Kolokotroni |
Would it be safe to assume then that the Creatures from the older game systems are weaker in comparison? If so i think it might be fun to use them in increased number and giving a shade less XP for them. Thats similar to the minions system in dnd 4e.
The only annoying thing about them is you 1 shot them no matter what you do as long as you can score a hit. Its hard to keep people form meta gaming when they fight 30 things they one shot lol.
No it is not. Some things are stronger in older systems. Dragons for instance were powered down considerably in pathfinder.
MisterSlanky |
Faladarian wrote:No it is not. Some things are stronger in older systems. Dragons for instance were powered down considerably in pathfinder.Would it be safe to assume then that the Creatures from the older game systems are weaker in comparison? If so i think it might be fun to use them in increased number and giving a shade less XP for them. Thats similar to the minions system in dnd 4e.
The only annoying thing about them is you 1 shot them no matter what you do as long as you can score a hit. Its hard to keep people form meta gaming when they fight 30 things they one shot lol.
+1
The old CR system was hideously broken. Although not perfect Paizo did a great job trying to clean things up. You unfortunately cannot just assume the old creatures were easier.