a player of mine just acquired the lycanthrope template(deck of many things). I feel that the CR+1 is the sam as a level adjust as this template has put him leaps and bounds above the almost carbon copy of one of the other players.
thoughts?
quotable rules?
There is a section of the PRD about Monster Advancement that explains how to add class levels to monsters (adding a complementary class level to a monster increases its CR by +1, btw). Taking that in reverse one could assume that a PC who gains a template (such as lycanthropy) that adds +1 to a monster's CR would be the equivalent of adding a complementary class level to that PC.
That's as close as I can get, though.
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I don't know if I'm alone in thinking this way but, in my campaigns, lycanthropy isn't something the players want to have inflicted upon them. I figure lycanthropy is a curse, lycanthropes are monsters and monsters are generally controlled by the GM.
I combine the lycanthrope template from the bestiary with a variant rule from Curse of the Moon that bascially turns afflicted lycanthropes into frenzied beasts with no control over their actions. It may not be a popular choice and it certainly isn't fun to have a character hijacked by the GM, but I think monsters should be monsters and curses should never benefit a character without a great cost.
The Harrow Deck of Many Things has a card that gives the werebear lycanthropic template
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The way I've always worked these is to "rebuild" the character as though they always had the template. That is, they would have started with a CR of 2 (wolf CR of 1 + 1 for template) and, between level 4 and 5 of XP (2 and 3 of class levels), gained a bonus class level leaving them a total of 1 level adjusted.
So, if they were already level 3, just call it a +1. If they were only level 1 or 2, call it a +2, but reduce it by one half way between class levels 2 and 3. It's essentially "level adjustment" with a buy-off rule.
However, it should be noted that until they make the DC20 will save to remember an "episode" they cannot control their shifting, nor their actions during it. This means that they are guaranteed to spend at least one night attempting to eat their fellow party members.
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I haven't seen official werebear stats for Pathfinder but, if they're anything like those from 3.5, werebears are about the most powerful of all lycanthropes. I can see how this would cause a power gap between the characters. If you're going to let him play his character as a werebear, I suggest looking into the werebear advancement tables that have been published in Dragon Magazine or (IIRC) Races of Faerun. I think Curse of the Moon has some advancement tables for lycanthropes as well. This way, you can treat the werebear as a separate class and, hopefully, keep him from completely outclassing the rest of the party. I'd proably only allow XP gained in his werebear form to count for his lycanthrope level as well, but that's me.
Of course, if it was my campaign, this guy would just become a hungry, pissed-off bear with no control over his character every time he transformed.
I have been blessed in my Roleplaying career with mature players, so I would have no problem allowing a player to control their lycanthropic character - because they'd be more than willing to accept that while in that form they are wild, bestial, and violent.
If a player isn't playing that downside, the GM should usurp control of the character and treat him as though he is a monster that the party is facing. Either that or have him run off and cause trouble elsewhere. Lycanthropy offers a number of excellent plot possibilities without any real gain to the character when he is not in shifted form. Certain character might see the +2 Str as a boon and the -2 Cha as an insignificant penalty, but neither represents anything gamebreaking.
Ultimately, it's up to GM to ensure that the curse is, in fact, a curse. Seize the opportunity to spice up your game with the consequences of this affliction.
The sidebar on pg. 196 of the Bestiary offers advice on this issue.
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Honestly, I don't believe that lycanthropy should EVER be used unless it is part of a story. It is just something that either destroys a character for one bad save, or annoys the party mildly without being special. I have only once seen it be a good bit of gaming, and that was because it was a story-driven lycanthropy.
But I digress...
In pathfinder rules, a werebear would have a higher adjustment for having a better base animal. A grizzly, being a CR 4, would cause a werebear to be a +5 CR adjustment (that can be bought to a minimum of +3). This can be a pretty crippling adjustment for some characters.
So a level 6 were-bear fighter would be CR9. A level 6 were-wolf fighter would be CR7.
Its not the curse of lycanthropy... the player recieved the inherant werebear lycanthropy from drawing the bear card from the harrow deck of many things.
it was from the curse of the crimson throne adventure paths
But its not the curse.
@StabbityDoom thats kind of what i thought.... but I'm a kind GM and was going to let him get away with only a +1 level adjust.
If he keeps pushing the issue i think i'll give him the +3
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I have been blessed in my Roleplaying career with mature players
I've only had one player ever play an afflicted lycanthrope as a dangerous monster. Unfortunately, most of the players I've encountered just see stuff like lycanthropy and vampirism as upgrades. I actually had one player who had his character run up and stand next to a furious wererat hoping he would get bitten so he could choose to forgo his save against the lycanthropy.
First place to look is the bestiary:
Lycanthropic Player Characters
When a PC becomes a lycanthrope, you as the GM have a choice to make. In most cases, you should take control of the PC’s actions whenever he is in hybrid or animal form—lycanthropy shouldn’t be a method to increase a PC’s power, after all, and what an afflicted lycanthrope does while in animal or hybrid form is often at odds with what the character would actually want. If a player wants to play a lycanthrope, he should play a natural lycanthrope and follow the guidelines on page 313 for playing a character of a powerful race.
So an afflicted lycanthrope is out of player control when in either hybrid or animal form, so 3 (or more) nights a month the character goes around killing stuff. If the player finds a way to activate it manually, they also lose control - including the choice about turning back! The only basic change they can make use of in this case is the permanent +2 WIS, -2 CHA.
A natural lycanthrope is normally an ECL+1, which is very very weak, especially at later levels. You might consider treating it as a sort of magic item, in terms of treasure the player recieves.
Eg.
Natural AC+2 = 8000gp
DR10/silver (hybrid/animal only) = Approx +3 armor, like armor invulnerability = 9,000gp
Changeshape = Beast shape I/will: Spell 3, CL 5, at will = 30,000gp
Lycan Empathy = +4 (/2 for only one beast subtype) ~8,000gp
Ability scores +2/+2/+2/-2 for net +2/+2 = Two +2 stat bonus 4000gp
Cheapest ability = x1.5 (2000gp)
Slotless = All x2
Total: 126,000gp
It's flawed logically, but if you give your player a raw gp value of having lycanthropy as an ability (rather than the curse version) - you'll probably find they're nowhere near as interested. Or you can let them know it's an ECL+1, and will from next level on always be a level behind the rest of the group for what is admittedly not a lot of benefit.
a player of mine just acquired the lycanthrope template(deck of many things). I feel that the CR+1 is the sam as a level adjust as this template has put him leaps and bounds above the almost carbon copy of one of the other players.
thoughts?
quotable rules?
Click and buy this. Sean K. Reynolds' Curse of the Moon. It's a great lycanthropy rule-set that is simple, elegant, and easy to run.
There's a simple template that can be used as LA+0. It's toned down a lot but still has the flavor you want. If the player likes the way the story is going, there's plenty of mechanical good stuff for them to continue down the path and become a better lycanthrope.