I know this is probably too elementary for many, but I'm taking a first shot at DM'ing, and I've chosen a 2e adventure that I'm trying to modify to the Pathfinder system. However, I'm having trouble deciding what CR to make the boss monster, which is a zombie lord.
According to the encounter guidelines in the Pathfinder core book, a challenging encounter for an APL 1 party would be CR 2. That seems impossible though because in the original adventure this zombie lord also commands 4 other zombies in the encounter as well. Furthermore, the zombie lord template I'm using (from Denizens of Dread a 3.5 monster book from the Ravenloft setting) instructs you to add +3 CR levels to the base NPC from which it was made, so even if I use a level 1 npc, the minimum zombie lord level I will get will be a CR 4.
Any advice would be appreciated. Also, I'm basing this adventure on the "Night of the Walking Dead" adventure module from the 2e Ravenloft game.
I know this is probably too elementary for many, but I'm taking a first shot at DM'ing, and I've chosen a 2e adventure that I'm trying to modify to the Pathfinder system. However, I'm having trouble deciding what CR to make the boss monster, which is a zombie lord.
According to the encounter guidelines in the Pathfinder core book, a challenging encounter for an APL 1 party would be CR 2. That seems impossible though because in the original adventure this zombie lord also commands 4 other zombies in the encounter as well. Furthermore, the zombie lord template I'm using (from Denizens of Dread a 3.5 monster book from the Ravenloft setting) instructs you to add +3 CR levels to the base NPC from which it was made, so even if I use a level 1 npc, the minimum zombie lord level I will get will be a CR 4.
Any advice would be appreciated. Also, I'm basing this adventure on the "Night of the Walking Dead" adventure module from the 2e Ravenloft game.
A level one party does not fit within the standard challenge rules because they are so easy to kill even though the rules don't state it. I would not give a "boss" fight until at least level 3.
A true CR 4 would most likely kill them unless you helped them out.
I know the encounter of which you speak, I'm working on converting it myself. I'd just make sure the players are level 2 by the time they fight him. He has some zombie lackeys, if I remember, so a CR 4 and a couple cr 1/2 or 1/4 zombies shouldn't be too hard for a group of 2nd level characters.
Remember also the advice that things from 3.5, if used unchanged, are generally 1 CR lower by Pathfinder standards, so that guy might just be a CR 3.
I know the encounter of which you speak, I'm working on converting it myself. I'd just make sure the players are level 2 by the time they fight him. He has some zombie lackeys, if I remember, so a CR 4 and a couple cr 1/2 or 1/4 zombies shouldn't be too hard for a group of 2nd level characters.
Remember also the advice that things from 3.5, if used unchanged, are generally 1 CR lower by Pathfinder standards, so that guy might just be a CR 3.
It's exciting to hear that someone else is converting this adventure as well. Maybe we should compare what we come up with and post a final version on the "Cafe de Nuit" Ravenloft boards.
I was planning on running the adventure in one session, so I might tell my players to make level 2 characters from the beginning. At the same time though, Ravenloft is supposed to be a tougher and grittier experience, so I don't want to make it too easy.
Either way, thanks for the advice!
This conversion is making me crazy. I tried to apply the zombie lord template from Denizens of Dread to a PF NPC (Aristocrat,) but no matter what I do the stats come out awkward. If I take a level 1 NPC and apply the template it should produce a CR 4 NPC. This is a problem because it will be assisted by 4 other zombies which will make the encounter too hard for an APL 1 party. According to the PF core Rulebook, an epic encounter should have a CR of APL +3.
However, even if he is CR 4 he only has 15 HP's unless I adjust the hit dice to match the CR, like I did in the above template. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to resolve this dilemma? :?
Try being a little less literal with your conversion. Trim his stench down to match a troglodyte and just mess around with Marcel's stats until he gets fairly close to whatever CR you want, using the tables in the back of the bestiary. If he ends up CR 3 with 3 zombies backing him up he should be a good capstone encounter. Be wary though, if you leave in a ju ju zombie the PCs will be toast, and they might be anyway depending on how much resources they burn getting to him.
BTW, that was the very first D&D book I ever purchased, from an old game shop which is long dead. I lost it years ago in a move or something, but could probably run it from memory at this point. Love it. Have fun.
The light of the moon shining over the dead shall gutter and fail turning all to red.
Awesome.
Try being a little less literal with your conversion. Trim his stench down to match a troglodyte and just mess around with Marcel's stats until he gets fairly close to whatever CR you want, using the tables in the back of the bestiary. If he ends up CR 3 with 3 zombies backing him up he should be a good capstone encounter. Be wary though, if you leave in a ju ju zombie the PCs will be toast, and they might be anyway depending on how much resources they burn getting to him.
BTW, that was the very first D&D book I ever purchased, from an old game shop which is long dead. I lost it years ago in a move or something, but could probably run it from memory at this point. Love it. Have fun.
The light of the moon shining over the dead shall gutter and fail turning all to red.
Awesome.
I was actually going to leave out the Ju Ju zombie because I don't have stats for one in either Denzens of Dread or the Pathfinder Bestiary.
However, I think I will take your advice about just getting his stats close to the target CR in the back of the Bestiary.
That's awesome that this was your first adventure. I loved it as soon as I read it. I have never been lucky enough to play in an adventure as interesting as this one.
So here's my advice for converting 2nd edition modules: roll with it and don't worry about the details so much. This is especially true in Ravenloft, where the ambience and the feel of the constant threat is more important than actually continually threatening your players' lives.
And what is he before the template? Make him a level 1 Aristocrat, or CR 1/2. Adding a +3 CR template would only make him CR 3.
The XP charts are your friend. While the add x to y to make CR z formula is good shorthand, as long as it all adds up to the same amount of XP, chances are the CR is about right.
Compare the end result of the Zombie Lord to what the general stats should be for a CR 3. If it doesn't add up, then he's not. Templates are often inaccurate at very low CRs.
So yeah, in the end your result should serve to make the battle feel climactic and your players have fun. I tend to get hung up on math a lot, but converting 2e adventures on the fly is when you can be more creative and less rigid. At least for me.
And yeah, I am converting them but it is a long-term goal. I won't be running them until, earliest, next autumn. I'm running the Hexad for a Grand Conjunction campaign. It has been a long term goal. Using Tarokka deck for character creation. After than I will either run Dark Sun (doing for my friday group what my DM on thursday did for me 6 years ago and making DS my favorite campaign setting) or Kingmaker in Birthright. Or maybe Spelljammer.
I just love resurrecting the old campaign settings. Say what you will about TSR but they had an immense amount of creative talent.
Just to note, as a 1st-level human aristocrat zombie lord, he's still only a CR 2 (a human aristocrat 1 is CR 1/3). He's something of a glass cannon, really; if PCs survive his aura of death and once-a-day death touch they should cut him down in no more than a few rounds.
Also, I'd restructure the adventure so the PCs level up just after defeating Jean. It'll give them a boost for the final act and might even lower their defenses.
So here's my advice for converting 2nd edition modules: roll with it and don't worry about the details so much. This is especially true in Ravenloft, where the ambience and the feel of the constant threat is more important than actually continually threatening your players' lives.
And what is he before the template? Make him a level 1 Aristocrat, or CR 1/2. Adding a +3 CR template would only make him CR 3.
The XP charts are your friend. While the add x to y to make CR z formula is good shorthand, as long as it all adds up to the same amount of XP, chances are the CR is about right.
Compare the end result of the Zombie Lord to what the general stats should be for a CR 3. If it doesn't add up, then he's not. Templates are often inaccurate at very low CRs.
It definitely is not adding up as far as HP's or AC are concerned, but I'm wondering if those particularly nasty SA's will balance it out.
one of the Forgotten reals 3.5 books had juju zombies in them. Unapproachable East was the name
I will definitely look that up!
Just to note, as a 1st-level human aristocrat zombie lord, he's still only a CR 2 (a human aristocrat 1 is CR 1/3). He's something of a glass cannon, really; if PCs survive his aura of death and once-a-day death touch they should cut him down in no more than a few rounds.
Also, I'd restructure the adventure so the PCs level up just after defeating Jean. It'll give them a boost for the final act and might even lower their defenses.
I didn't realize 1st lvl NPC's with NPC classes were only CR 1/3. That makes a little more sense actually. Where does it tell you how to determine NPC CR?
Page 398 (Gamemastering > Building an Adventure > Adding NPCs)
Page 398 (Gamemastering > Building an Adventure > Adding NPCs)
Thanks John, I found it. That clears the matter up quite a bit for me.
Is this the one in the swamps that has the 2 brothers in it? Not trying to give too much away in case it isn't. I actually have a 3.5 conversion of that adventure already statted out I found via a torrent. Just google the adventure and you could probably find a direct download of the adventure conversion. From there, converting it to Pathfinder from 3.5 is easy-peasy.
My advice would be, focus on the end, not the means. Instead of starting with a pre-statted NPC and adding a template designed by someone else, Just go here and make something that roughly matches the appropriate row of numbers.