Not sure if this warranted a new thread, but I felt like I had a revelation as to why that spell was so freaking confusing.
CALCIFIC TOUCH ISN'T A TOUCH SPELL! It's a personal spell. I may not have revised it perfectly but I think it'll give you an idea of what the revised version might look like.
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature or creatures touched (up to one per level)
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes
Your touch progressively transmutes the substance ofcreatures you touch into stone. Once per round, you may
deliver a touch attack that inflicts 1d4 points of Dexterity
damage and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round. A
successful Fortitude save negates the slow effect but not the
ability damage. A target reduced to 0 Dexterity is petrified
permanently. Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh
can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range Personal
Target You
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will (harmless); Spell Resistance yes
Your touch progressively transmutes the substance ofcreatures you touch into stone. Once per round, you may
deliver a touch attack that inflicts 1d4 points of Dexterity
damage and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round. A
successful Fortitude save negates the slow effect but not the
ability damage. A target reduced to 0 Dexterity is petrified
permanently. Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh
can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
Bad news for the min/max-ers:
You can't apply Reach, Maximize, Dazing, etc. on this spell. It's a personal spell that gives a touch attack.
Good news for min/max-ers:
It's a personal spell. Feel free to cast it on your familiar.
I MIGHT BE TOTALLY WRONG! I kind of hope I am, but I don't think so. ^^;
It has a range of touch... that's all it needs to be affected by the reach spell.
It has a range of touch... that's all it needs to be affected by the reach spell.
...but I think that's the misprint. It doesn't have a range of touch. The spell itself, as Jason describes it, has a range of personal. It's a personal buff that gives you a touch attack.
It has a range of touch... that's all it needs to be affected by the reach spell....but I think that's the misprint. It doesn't have a range of touch. The spell itself, as Jason describes it, has a range of personal. It's a personal buff that gives you a touch attack.
Breath Chort, you are over thinking this.
The spell specifically gives you an ability to make a touch attack yes, but the range of that touch attack is touch (of course).
However because it has a touch effect at the range of touch, and reach spell can affect touch range spells, reach spell can affect this spell.
Now that doesn't mean you don't have to make a touch attack -- you still do, but now you can do it out to close range instead of having to be in melee with them.
Of course this ends up me arguing against the actual creator of the spell. xD
The spell was just not written well the first time and led to a lot of confusion as to how it actually worked. Why was it so confusing? Because how the spell worked didn't match the description. The spell gives you a touch attack for multiple rounds. If you replace the "Range: Touch" with "Range: Personal", everything starts to make sense. There's no more questions with how it functions from there.
Honestly, I wish this wasn't the case. How I wish I could apply Reach to this spell...
It has a range of touch... that's all it needs to be affected by the reach spell....but I think that's the misprint. It doesn't have a range of touch. The spell itself, as Jason describes it, has a range of personal. It's a personal buff that gives you a touch attack.Breath Chort, you are over thinking this.
The spell specifically gives you an ability to make a touch attack yes, but the range of that touch attack is touch (of course).
However because it has a touch effect at the range of touch, and reach spell can affect touch range spells, reach spell can affect this spell.
Now that doesn't mean you don't have to make a touch attack -- you still do, but now you can do it out to close range instead of having to be in melee with them.
Oh how I hope you are right. It's just that no matter what way I look at it, and now matter how I reread Jason's post about his own spell, it seems to be a personal spell that gives you touch attacks. How would you revise the wording of the spell that it actually makes sense?
Wait, I might have an idea... Anywho, we'll see. ^^;
Well first off remember your common sense. If you think this is a huge issue either talk to your GM, or if you are the GM talk to your players. No one is going to hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books if you don't do it 100% exactly right by the rules.
Now then how I read this spell:
Casting Time 1 standard action with somatic and verbal components, granting me a standard action ability I can use once per round at the range of touch to deal 1d4 dex damage to another creature and slow them (as per the slow spell) for one round unless they make a fortitude save -- if I deal more dex damage than they have Dex points they turn to stone permenantly.
Now remember the part at the top of the spell is short hand. It isn't the exact details of the spell -- it only works in context of what is actually written.
The way I would have written it I think:
Effect: Personal
Range: touch attack
Duration: 1 round per level
This spell grants the caster the ability to make a touch attack as a standard action each round that deals 1d4 Dex damage and slows the target unless they make a Fortitude save (this save does not reduce or negate the dex damage. If a creature takes more dex damage from this spell than they have total dex then they are turned to stone permanently as per the flesh to stone spell.
***************************************************
Another way to consider this is that it is kind of like the cure light wounds spell or indeed inflict light wounds spell.
These spells have a duration of instanteous -- but the effect doesn't go away just because the spell is over... meaning the effect is permanent.
The only thing I can think of is to turn it into charge and model it after Chill Touch.
Chill Touch
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yes
A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds + 1 round per caster level.
Although Jason said that it wasn't like a charge, it had a duration... Maybe if the spell said that after casting the spell, you could use it again, but it doesn't leave you even if you cast...?
I don't know. Maybe. >.<
|
No one is going to hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books if you don't do it 100% exactly right by the rules.
speak for yourself. I plan on doing these things if he doesn't play exactly my way. actually i may do these things regardless of how Chort plays........
Well first off remember your common sense. If you think this is a huge issue either talk to your GM, or if you are the GM talk to your players. No one is going to hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books if you don't do it 100% exactly right by the rules.
Now then how I read this spell:
Casting Time 1 standard action with somatic and verbal components, granting me a standard action ability I can use once per round at the range of touch to deal 1d4 dex damage to another creature and slow them (as per the slow spell) for one round unless they make a fortitude save -- if I deal more dex damage than they have Dex points they turn to stone permenantly.
Now remember the part at the top of the spell is short hand. It isn't the exact details of the spell -- it only works in context of what is actually written.
The way I would have written it I think:
Effect: Personal
Range: touch attack
Duration: 1 round per levelThis spell grants the caster the ability to make a touch attack as a standard action each round that deals 1d4 Dex damage and slows the target unless they make a Fortitude save (this save does not reduce or negate the dex damage. If a creature takes more dex damage from this spell than they have total dex then they are turned to stone permanently as per the flesh to stone spell.
***************************************************
Another way to consider this is that it is kind of like the cure light wounds spell or indeed inflict light wounds spell.
These spells have a duration of instanteous -- but the effect doesn't go away just because the spell is over... meaning the effect is permanent.
Ah, okay. I think we can agree that we kind of model it after chill touch, with a slight variance to it. (An actual duration) I think the duration of the spell would have to read instantaneous, but the text would tell us the touch attack could be made 1/level?
...just trying to make sure that the way it's worded actually let's us apply Reach and other metamagics as we think it would. I'm guessing that extend would no longer work? Blargh. It's all about the wording...
Although it looks like you won't be able to cast this on your familiar, then? Although maybe he can deliver the attack now? Argh. >.>
No one is going to hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books if you don't do it 100% exactly right by the rules.speak for yourself. I plan on doing these things if he doesn't play exactly my way. actually i may do these things regardless of how Chort plays........
+1
Indeed. What he said. <.<
I don't know. Maybe. >.<
Look for reach spell the only part you have to worry about is the fact it has Touch on it's range.
With that it doesn't matter its duration, or whatever.
The effect of the spell happens at range touch -- no matter how often why who's touch anything else.
It's range Touch.
At which point you can apply Reach spell.
Since reach spell gives it Close range, you can now make the attack roll out to 25 feet + 5 feet per 2 caster levels.
The reach spell does not say it negates the need for a touch attack so that remains in place.
The spell grants you an effect that happens at range: touch -- applying reach spell changes that range to range: close but doesn't change anything else.
If you extended it, the duration of the spell would double. This doesn't give you extra touches since extend spell doesn't say you can touch more creatures than your caster level -- you just have more time to do it in.
I'm just trying to justify how the spell can read:
Range: Touch
AND
Duration 1 round/level
...because the attack is a touch attack that is instantaneous. ...and if it's instantaneous, you can't apply extend.
Extend Spell (Metamagic)
You can make your spells last twice as long.Benefit: An extended spell lasts twice as long as normal. A spell with a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent is not affected by this feat. An extended spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Conversely, if the spell speaks of it having a duration of 1 round/level, then the range should be personal. ...meaning no reach, maximize, dazing etc.
Anyway, I really hope Jason and the other Pathfinder folks can figure this one out somehow, because at the moment, I'm at a loss. I just don't think it's possible for it to be a personal spell you can cast on a familiar that you can extend AND a spell that you can apply Reach, Maximize, and Dazing. (and have your familiar deliver it?)
I'm just trying to justify how the spell can read:
Range: Touch
AND
Duration 1 round/level
...because the attack is a touch attack that is instantaneous. ...and if it's instantaneous, you can't apply extend.
Extend Spell (Metamagic)
You can make your spells last twice as long.Benefit: An extended spell lasts twice as long as normal. A spell with a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent is not affected by this feat. An extended spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Conversely, if the spell speaks of it having a duration of 1 round/level, then the range should be personal. ...meaning no reach, maximize, dazing etc.
Anyway, I really hope Jason and the other Pathfinder folks can figure this one out somehow, because at the moment, I'm at a loss. I just don't think it's possible for it to be a personal spell you can cast on a familiar that you can extend AND a spell that you can apply Reach, Maximize, and Dazing. (and have your familiar deliver it?)
Now I see your problem:
You've set yourself up with false premises:
NOTHING on a touch spell states that it MUST have a duration of instanteous.
NOTHING about a spell with duration states it MUST NOT be a touch spell.
Consider Bear's Endurance. You have to touch the target of the spell -- thus it's a "touch" spell. However the duration isn't instanteous.
Likewise with Calcific Touch.
Also: Ghoul Touch -- Range: Touch but with duration -- which can be extended.
You seem to think that somehow a touch spell can't have a duration -- which is false. Or that a spell with duration can't be a touch spell -- which is also false.
EDIT:
Consider the following:
Chill Touch has an Indefinite duration: As long as you don't use up all the touches, and you don't cast another spell it will last forever.
However since it has a duration of effect of instanteous, it can't be extended.
I'm not saying that a spell with a Range of Touch can't have a duration, it's just that it's not the touch spell that has the duration. The ability to use the touch spell is what has the duration. There's no precedent for this. Calcific Touch isn't like Bear's Endurance because Bear's Endurance is a one use touch that gives the target a buff with a duration. Calcific Touch seems to be a buff with a duration that grants you a touch attack. (...or a touch attack with a duration of instantaneous that you can use repeatedly?)
I'm not saying that a spell with a Range of Touch can't have a duration, it's just that it's not the touch spell that has the duration. The ability to use the touch spell is what has the duration. There's no precedent for this. Calcific Touch isn't like Bear's Endurance because Bear's Endurance is a one use touch that gives the target a buff with a duration. Calcific Touch seems to be a buff with a duration that grants you a touch attack. (...or a touch attack with a duration of instantaneous that you can use repeatedly.)
Again over thinking it:
It has a duration. As such the duration can be extended. This does not grant extra touches, just more time to make them in. It doesn't matter what else the spell does -- the duration of the spell in this case is how many rounds you have in which to make the effect happen. You can extend that duration with the extend spell metamagic feat.
Since the spell has a variable numeric effect it can be maximized, and it can be empowered. The variable numberic effect in question is 1d4 dex damage. If maximized it will do 4 points of dex damage. If empowered it would do 1d4*1.5 dex damage.
I think this is why the person who originally responded to the Calcific Touch post mistakenly thought it was an ability you could give to other players. He thought it was a touch with a duration. As in, you can touch someone, and they gain the ability to use the touch attack during the duration.
Probably. Which if it said, "The person you touch gains the ability to (blah blah blah) within the duration of this spell" he could do -- but since it stays "You (blah blah blah)" it doesn't work like that.
Each line in the top specifies a small piece of information about the effects as outlined in the bottom section. My best advice is to not mix the various parts of the top section together -- each part is semi independent based on the information in the spell's actual discription.
Maybe this is all about poor wording, but I'll go back to the spell description:
Calcific Touch
School transmutation [earth]; Level sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature or creatures touched (up to one per level)
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes
Your touch progressively transmutes the substance of creatures you touch into stone. Once per round, you may deliver a touch attack that inflicts 1d4 points of Dexterity damage and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round. A successful Fortitude save negates the slow effect but not the ability damage. A target reduced to 0 Dexterity is petrified permanently. Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
It's just that the way I read it, Calcific Touch is a personal spell. You can only target yourself. It's range is you. The effect of the spell known as Calcific Touch is to grant you the ability to: Once per round, you may deliver a touch attack that inflicts 1d4 points of Dexterity damage and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round.
Calcific Touch itself is not a touch attack.
...that's how I've been reading it. >.<
Ok again you are over thinking this:
Your touch (i.e. range touch attack) transmutes the substance of the creatures (i.e. the targets of this spell since they are affected by the spell -- you are not affected the people you touch are) you touch to stone. Once per round (for the duration of this spell, which is 1 round per caster level and can be extended with the extend spell) you may make a touch attack (again range of the attack) that inflicts 1d4 dex damage (a variable amount of damage that maybe increased through use of empower or maximise spell) and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round (new duration but would also be increased since it is a duration of a part of the spell that isn't permanent, or instanteous). A successful fortitude save negates the slow effect, but not the ability damage. A target reduced to 0 dex is petrified permenantly (duration not extended due to duration type). Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
No one is going to hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books if you don't do it 100% exactly right by the rules.
speak for yourself. I plan on doing these things if he doesn't play exactly my way. actually i may do these things regardless of how Chort plays........
+1 Indeed. What he said. <.<
I watched Inception the other day...
I think the way it works is that; if the DMs subconscious mind notices you misinterpreting the rules, every NPC in the world will hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books.
Ok again you are over thinking this:
Your touch (i.e. range touch attack) transmutes the substance of the creatures (i.e. the targets of this spell since they are affected by the spell -- you are not affected the people you touch are) you touch to stone. Once per round (for the duration of this spell, which is 1 round per caster level and can be extended with the extend spell) you may make a touch attack (again range of the attack) that inflicts 1d4 dex damage (a variable amount of damage that maybe increased through use of empower or maximise spell) and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round (new duration but would also be increased since it is a duration of a part of the spell that isn't permanent, or instanteous). A successful fortitude save negates the slow effect, but not the ability damage. A target reduced to 0 dex is petrified permenantly (duration not extended due to duration type). Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
I think my brain just shut down. Either that, or my brain shut down hours ago and I failed the Will Save to recognize it. xP I'll get back to you? Honestly, I hope you're right, because I'd love to apply all of those metamagic to stack like I initially thought it would. Hopefully Jason will come here and clear it all up, hopefully ending with him smacking some sense into me and showing me how it all works out.
No one is going to hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books if you don't do it 100% exactly right by the rules.speak for yourself. I plan on doing these things if he doesn't play exactly my way. actually i may do these things regardless of how Chort plays........+1 Indeed. What he said. <.<I watched Inception the other day...
I think the way it works is that; if the DMs subconscious mind notices you misinterpreting the rules, every NPC in the world will hunt you down, burn your house, pillage your sister, kick your dog and take all of your books.
Ah, now it all makes sense. :3
Think of this spell exactly like Chill Touch. Chill Touch is not a personal spell even though it buffs you with the ability to make a specific type of touch attack. It seems pretty clear to me through the description you posted that casting this spell allows you to make 1 touch/round over the course of 1 round/level. Since the touch attack causes Dex damage, any damage caused is permanent until healed.
Therefore, since the range is touch you can apply reach. Since it has a duration you can apply extend. Since it does damage you can apply maximize or empower.
I don't see where the confusion is coming in I guess, it makes perfect sense to me as originally written.
Think of this spell exactly like Chill Touch. Chill Touch is not a personal spell even though it buffs you with the ability to make a specific type of touch attack. It seems pretty clear to me through the description you posted that casting this spell allows you to make 1 touch/round over the course of 1 round/level. Since the touch attack causes Dex damage, any damage caused is permanent until healed.
Therefore, since the range is touch you can apply reach. Since it has a duration you can apply extend. Since it does damage you can apply maximize or empower.
I don't see where the confusion is coming in I guess, it makes perfect sense to me as originally written.
It made perfect sense to me too when I first read it. Then I came here. xP I guess it was that it was similar to Chill Touch in ways, but wasn't in others. Chill Touch is listed as Instantaneous. (...so the touch attack is instantaneous. By that thought, I would think Calcific Touch would also be instantaneous, and then add the caveat of it's duration in the description of the spell.) Calcific Touch was a duration spell. Then it was a duration spell that only works with you... Maybe that's where I've gone off the reservation. xD I was thinking "Okay, it's a spell with a duration, it only works on you, and it grants you an ability. It's a buff!" ...but I guess it's not? It's a touch attack... With a duration for how long you can make the touch attack... I still don't like the way it's put together, but maybe, as Abraham has repeatedly said, I'm over thinking this.
Still hoping for word from Jason, but I guess for now, much to my peculiar dismay, I'll consider it a touch attack with a duration.
Alright, so given that my "sudden revelation" was wrong and y'all are right, (probably the case?) we can:
1. Apply Reach, Maximize, etc.
2. Apply Dazing (This one is debatable if only because some people think ability damage isn't the right kind of damage. To me damage is damage. Meh.)
3. Apply Extend
...and the familiars...
Can we:
1. Have them deliver the touch attack?
2. Cast Calcific Touch on them through the Share Spells ability?
How does this compare to Chill Touch?
I would go with the share spell angle, since it's an "attack buff" -- you can share it with the familiar, but you'll have to cast it once for him and once for yourself, and since it's not a "touch spell" and you can't "hold the charge" I would say the familiar can not deliver touch attacks, from your Calcific touch (he could of course deliver them from his "own" calcific touch spell though).
As to the familiars, does this still stand? I think that was partially what sent me off on this tangent. You called it an "attack buff," implying that the spell itself wasn't an attack and thus eligible for share spells... Anyway, I'm still confused, but hopeful that somehow they'll errata this in some way that there won't be any room for misinterpretation. >.<
I don't think you can "give" the spell to your familiar without something like a ring of spell storing. According to Jason, the way it works is more akin to call lightning than chill touch, in that each round, the spell generates a touch attack that you can deliver (as opposed to the vertical bolt of lightning from call lightning).
You should note that in Pathfinder, the "share spells" ability that familiars get has been nerfed. Familiars can receive spells that have a target of "you". That's all. As it stands, Calcific Touch is not a spell that targets you per se. Thus, I would think that your bond with your familiar does not make it any easier for you to grant control of the spell to your familiar than it would be to pass it to, say, the Big Dumb Fighter.
As for reach spell, word from Jason is that it should work, and I'm happy to submit that to my DM as INDICIA that it should work that way. However, we should note that his intentions aside, even Jason felt himself constrained by the wording that he had actually written for the publication-he interpreted the words for us in a manner that accorded to his intention, but took care to not contradict any of the words in the spell as printed.
Personally, I think Chort is right, otherwise this is the only touch spell that can have 4 or more continuous rounds of metamagic applied to it...
I don't think you can "give" the spell to your familiar without something like a ring of spell storing. According to Jason, the way it works is more akin to call lightning than chill touch, in that each round, the spell generates a touch attack that you can deliver (as opposed to the vertical bolt of lightning from call lightning).
You should note that in Pathfinder, the "share spells" ability that familiars get has been nerfed. Familiars can receive spells that have a target of "you". That's all. As it stands, Calcific Touch is not a spell that targets you per se. Thus, I would think that your bond with your familiar does not make it any easier for you to grant control of the spell to your familiar than it would be to pass it to, say, the Big Dumb Fighter.
As for reach spell, word from Jason is that it should work, and I'm happy to submit that to my DM as INDICIA that it should work that way. However, we should note that his intentions aside, even Jason felt himself constrained by the wording that he had actually written for the publication-he interpreted the words for us in a manner that accorded to his intention, but took care to not contradict any of the words in the spell as printed.
Thank. You.
Finally, you gave me a precedent. (or reminded my of the precedent that Jason explicitly stated but I forgot to follow up on. xD) The only thing currently wrong with Calcific Touch is that it doesn't painstakingly explain how it works, like Call Lightning does.
Call Lightning
School evocation [electricity]; Level druid 3
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect one or more 30-ft.-long vertical lines of lightning
Duration 1 min./level
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yesImmediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell's range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.
You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed first. Each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt. You may call a total number of bolts equal to your caster level (maximum 10 bolts).
If you are outdoors and in a stormy area—a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado (including a whirlwind formed by a djinni or an air elemental of at least Large size)—each bolt deals 3d10 points of electricity damage instead of 3d6.
This spell functions indoors or underground but not underwater.
Man, does Jason ever write fun spells.
Anyway, given the precedent, I completely agree with everything FiddlersGreen said. You should be able to apply pretty much all the Metamagic we listed. Familiars shouldn't be able to get the spell through Share Spells, because it's not a personal spell.
Still not 100% sure on this one: Given that it's like call lightning, can we use Deliver Touch Spells?
Here's the wording on that one:
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
Anyway, I think my original point has pretty much been proven wrong given the precedent of Call Lightning. My only complaint is the text not explaining it well enough (and maybe the Effect Creature or Creatures touched line) and the confusing potential interaction with Deliver Touch Spells.
Thanks for putting up with me!
I would go with the share spell angle, since it's an "attack buff" -- you can share it with the familiar, but you'll have to cast it once for him and once for yourself, and since it's not a "touch spell" and you can't "hold the charge" I would say the familiar can not deliver touch attacks, from your Calcific touch (he could of course deliver them from his "own" calcific touch spell though).As to the familiars, does this still stand? I think that was partially what sent me off on this tangent. You called it an "attack buff," implying that the spell itself wasn't an attack and thus eligible for share spells... Anyway, I'm still confused, but hopeful that somehow they'll errata this in some way that there won't be any room for misinterpretation. >.<
Yeah I'm thinking I was wrong when I stated you could share it with share spell... and that you were right when you said you could have the familiar do the touching.
Rather, this line is somewhat troublesome:
Calcific Touch
School transmutation [earth]; Level sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature or creatures touched (up to one per level)
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes
Your touch progressively transmutes the substance of creatures you touch into stone. Once per round, you may deliver a touch attack that inflicts 1d4 points of Dexterity damage and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round. A successful Fortitude save negates the slow effect but not the ability damage. A target reduced to 0 Dexterity is petrified permanently. Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
...and of course the text.
EDIT: Well, maybe the bold'd part it isn't wrong... I think if the text is updated, it should work. Because that's where someone thought this was a touch range buff spell that grants a touch attack and thought that you could use this buff on up to one creature/level.
...which clearly isn't the case.
Yeah I'm thinking I was wrong when I stated you could share it with share spell... and that you were right when you said you could have the familiar do the touching.I would go with the share spell angle, since it's an "attack buff" -- you can share it with the familiar, but you'll have to cast it once for him and once for yourself, and since it's not a "touch spell" and you can't "hold the charge" I would say the familiar can not deliver touch attacks, from your Calcific touch (he could of course deliver them from his "own" calcific touch spell though).As to the familiars, does this still stand? I think that was partially what sent me off on this tangent. You called it an "attack buff," implying that the spell itself wasn't an attack and thus eligible for share spells... Anyway, I'm still confused, but hopeful that somehow they'll errata this in some way that there won't be any room for misinterpretation. >.<
Right, but now we've established it's similarity to Call Lightning and mostly makes sense. As to the touch spells...
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
...that's the problem text for me. Anyone want to take a stab at that one? Does it or does it not dissipate? Although the concept isn't new, (Call Lightning) there's never been a Touch Spell based off of Call Lightning.
Alright here you go:
A spell's range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the range entry of the spell description. A spell's range is the maximum distance from you that the spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell's point of origin. If any portion of the spell's area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
You must make choices about whom a spell is to affect or where an effect is to originate, depending on a spell's type. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell's target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate.Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.
If the target of a spell is yourself (the Target line of the spell description includes “You”), you do not receive a saving throw, and spell resistance does not apply. The saving throw and spell resistance lines are omitted from such spells.
Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.
Alright here you go:
A spell's range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the range entry of the spell description. A spell's range is the maximum distance from you that the spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell's point of origin. If any portion of the spell's area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
Okay. I was just looking over the Magic section myself.
I think the part that I bold'd is the key line. You CAN designate the familiar as the toucher for each round that you use Calcific Touch, and it WILL dissipate at the end of the round.
EDIT: Of course Calcific Touch itself will not dissipate, but the touch he was delivering will.
*phew*
That's it. I think I fully understand this spell. Finally. >.>;
Just have the familiar do his touch first then cast the spell.
Or have it be a reach spell so it doesn't matter in the first place.
Just have the familiar do his touch first then cast the spell.
Or have it be a reach spell so it doesn't matter in the first place.
Indeed, but if you're at 7th or 8th level and don't have the Rod or Magical Lineage (Calcific Touch), it might be a handy tactic.
Indeed, but if you're at 7th or 8th level and don't have the Rod or Magical Lineage (Calcific Touch), it might be a handy tactic.Just have the familiar do his touch first then cast the spell.
Or have it be a reach spell so it doesn't matter in the first place.
Anything that grants you an extra action each round is a handy tactic.
Having the familiar deliver a touch attack that lasts for several rounds but requires a standard action to use saves you the standard action each round after casting it -- which of course means you have more spells you can cast and actions you can take.
That is the true power of the familiar -- extra actions.
However remember that the familiars are normally tiny and as such must enter the square of the opponent they wish to attack, and thereby provoke AoOs. Now there are lots of ways around this of course, but it is something to remember.
Hmm. Does designating your familiar as the toucher of Calcific Touch take a standard action each time after the initial cast? I'm thinking it might be a free action...
...although we might not know for sure until the text is revised, but it would seem that calling on this power would be a free action each round and then you can take your other actions to attempt to deliver the touch attacks
Indeed, but if you're at 7th or 8th level and don't have the Rod or Magical Lineage (Calcific Touch), it might be a handy tactic.Just have the familiar do his touch first then cast the spell.
Or have it be a reach spell so it doesn't matter in the first place.
Anything that grants you an extra action each round is a handy tactic.
Having the familiar deliver a touch attack that lasts for several rounds but requires a standard action to use saves you the standard action each round after casting it -- which of course means you have more spells you can cast and actions you can take.
That is the true power of the familiar -- extra actions.
However remember that the familiars are normally tiny and as such must enter the square of the opponent they wish to attack, and thereby provoke AoOs. Now there are lots of ways around this of course, but it is something to remember.
Ah, nevermind. You already answered it. xP
EDIT: ...and I'm well aware of how risky it can be to send your familiar into the fray. >.<
...although at 7th level, if you take Improved Familiar, you can get a small familiar, which has it's own risks...
...although at 7th level, if you take Improved Familiar, you can get a small familiar, which has it's own risks...
Yup but a lot of those improved familiars are really really nice.