Sounds like you already have abandoned this game and you are simply looking for an excuse to stay with it. It will probably be to your advantage to go ahead and quit as you most likely will not enjoy the game any more.
On the other hand, if you have any ties to any of the remaining players or if you wish to stay with the group perhaps telling the other players what you typed here may be a good idea.
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I am with JMD031; if there are personal relationships that are important or would be negatively impacted by leaving I would say talk to to the group, otherwise I would say why play something you hate?
The one thing I wonder is if it is worth talking to this newbie GM a little about the imbalance and getting a little more information about why it happened and you might find an opportunity to mention the perceived favoritism... For a new GM they may not realize the impact disparate wealth might have on a player or how it might affect table politics.
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Just like a job you aren't fond of, quitting is a bad idea. I would stick with it until you can find a better game to play in. That way you give it more time to improve and if it doesn't it isn't like saying "I would rather be doing nothing than this."
Eh Wot?
You stick with a job you don't like because you need to pay bills. Gaming isn't a job, if you aren't having fun there is no point in playing.
as far as i see it, i don't see an imbalance, i just see a monty haul campaign. i see the wealth being equivalent to that of 2 levels higher
i snipped out the audit of wealth but here is the summary
before the base price of weapon and armor
the monk had a declared 13,000
the rogue had a declared 12,400 before finding out that the weapons were a shortbow and a rapier which makes this 12450. the armor type is still unkown and i don't know what other items these guys have. if we assume mithril shirt, then the rogue has 13550 gp in wealth.
i will just guess that both have +1 cloaks of resistance and that the monk likely has a custom item providing a +1 to hit and damage with his/her fists.
the difference between a d8 and d10 is only a single point. monks have to get thier damage from outside sources. such as various static boosts of an undeclared variety, net size increases from stuff along the lines of buffs or templates or precision damage of some kind.
as far as i see it, i don't see an imbalance, i just see a monty haul campaign. i see the wealth being equivalent to that of 2 levels higher
The imbalance is that these other characters have 12,000+ GP in wealth, while Bruno's character is about right by WBL. 6,000 GP is what the WBL chart indicates is appropriate for 4th level. These other characters are more than double that.
It sounds like Bruno doesn't want to play in a monty haul campaign, and I can't say that I blame him.
Sounds like the player missed the last session, which was probably when the party fought the end guy of book 1 (I recognize some of that loot), and the PCs who were there laid claim to the treasure without sharing with the guy not there.
I didn't specify which weapons, because it really doesn't make much of a difference in terms of money...but a shortbow and a rapier, if I'm not mistaken.
And perhaps it just is a monty haul - but then that's not what I want. And it does result in some fairly unbalanced characters...a 4th-level monk who hits like a 9th (yes, I know he doesn't have the BAB to back it up, but still...)
Anyways, thanks for the feedback so far...really appreciated...
as you said, your dm is a newbie. he needs honest players to learn from. the reason good dms are so rare is because everybody abandons the newbies while they are still learning. every dm has to start somewhere. this monty haul proves it.
This is an social problem that requires a social solution.
You need to talk to the people involved about the problems you're perceiving (in a polite and non-confrontational manner).
Remove the context of the game and solve this in the same way you would reconcile kinks in any kind of social get-together.
heck, i have tried to dm and none of the groups i have been in have given me a chance. so i technically never gotten a chance to dm. but i like life as a player better. one of my groups reforms and falls apart constantly. every so many months.
It definitely sounds like you should talk to the GM about wealth distribution. Monk's Robes are way strong for a character of that level. It sounds like your character could really use the bracer's of archery.
I know my game runs high on WBL, it can be hard even for experienced GMs to keep on top of. Of course, my group is 14th level and still had to retreat when they found Geryon's lair, but that is another story.
It sounds like you prefer a more gritty game style (strict WBL, less large magic items at low level.) Talk to the GM about it and see what they think. Wealth imbalance in game can be fixed by changing the next set of loot to have stuff for your character, but a lower powered game is harder to do if that's what the group enjoys playing.
Let's see if the problem here is actually the loot distribution (due to the OP not being present at the last session) rather than favoritism. By the way, did they use your character during that session, or did he stay at home?
To that end, let's look at the magical loot found in Shadow in the Sky:
+1 mithral chainmail
+1 chain shirt
+1 leather armor (x2)
+1 studded leather armor
+1 composite longbow
+1 hand crossbow
+1 rapier
+1 heavy steel shield
amulet of natural armor +1
bracers of armor +1 (x2)
cloak of resistance +1
ring of feather falling
slippers of spider climbing
wand of identify
wand of levitate
wand of magic missile
wand of shocking grasp
So, the items missing are the Monk's Robe (there is a monk who wears a robe, but it's not a magical one), the Haversack, and the Bracers of Archery.
Some of those items could be due to the GM swapping items on the NPCs (the bracers of archery, for instance). The other two could be due to selling leftover loot and using the proceeds to buy them, although there might not be quite enough wealth there..
Maybe you should make sure the GM knows about the default 50% sell value on magic items? If she is unaware of that rule, that could actually explain all of this.
Mr. Fishy is here. Ok look this is real easy. Go get a stick...wait for the "monk" to go to the "bathroom", follow him.
Mr. Fishy is under advisement to stop there. [stupid law] Always trying to keep the fishy down.
Or...you could ask the your DM about the extra loot. A good number of new DM's are too light or too heavy on encounters and loot, experience will make a difference. You can choose to wait it out, move on or try to address the problem. Each path is a way out.
The question you need to ask is which is the path you will regret the least. Playing a game you dislike like sucks but so does hurting your friends and walking out on great game waiting to happen. Take a break for the game. Tell the group you can't play for a little while. If they are your friends they will understand, if not, then made leaving is the right answer. You should not decide to leave when your angry at the DM. Walk a away and think about the game with a clear head and open eyes.
[cough]stick[cough]
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Monk keeps the loot list
Look no further.
If I were you, I would not have a friendly chat with the DM (being a novice, it might be overwhelming and hurt your friendship) but an open friendly chat with the whole group about trying to understand/clarify why you feel that some characters are over-equipped compared to others.
I can understand that PCs of players who were absent are given second choice of the items but you should really stress the importance of every PC being on approximately the same level of power so that things are enjoyable by all.
I think Monks need all the help they can get. So extra treasure makes him balanced with the rest of you.
Plus, Bruno doesn't want monty haul so he shouldn't complain if he doesn't get it. Either you don't like it and you are happy you don't get it or you like it and you complain about following WBL.
didn't know we'd found this...
For some of that stuff, you probably didn't find it; I just listed all the potential loot (to be complete). Some of it belongs to NPC allies that you could, in theory, have gained the loot from. Most of it is from enemies though, so that wouldn't explain all of the ones you didn't know about.
Now, to add spot to injury, the player of the monk has a tendency to "take up" a good amount of space in-game...he always makes "efficient" characters (I won't use the B-word, but it is borderline), has a problem (at least in my opinion) with social rules, is a cheater (or the luckiest man alive) and the boyfriend of the GM.
I'd be more concerned by these issues than the loot distribution.
A few years ago I was in a group that imploded due to similar issues. The DM and one player were very good friends. The DM didn't like certain classes/abilities/items and, instead of having a discussion about house rules, would just do his best to screw over certain players. His mate would cheat constantly - he had a high level archer who rolled a squillion D20s and D8s every attack. Funnily enough the various coloured dice would change order so that he always hit. Sometimes we'd suggest things along the lines of "wasn't the green D20 the first attack last round?" The DM didn't care and we finally got sick of it and everyone else left. A while later the player joined our new group temporarily - playing an archer again - and wouldn't stop his cheating so we got rid of him.
But essentially the fact that the DM and player were close ultimately destroyed that group. Several of us then formed another group which has been going well for several years now. Perhaps the other players feel the same as you but haven't raised the issue (as actually occurred in my group above). If you are all friends in RL I'd hope you could have a frank discussion of in-game issues, but if not - and if it isn't hard to find another group - I'd leave. DnD is meant to be fun, if it isn't then why play with people who are making it not fun.
As for the loot (assuming you stay), if you aren't comfortable raising the current inequity, just wait until the next loot dividing occurs. If the monk tries to get an unfair share, just point out how they did quite nicely last time, thank you very much, now it is time to balance things up. It doesn't have to be narky, just base it around party balance. And if that doesn't work, then things will just continue to frustrate you.
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One thing we don't know yet, was if the absent player still had his PC used in the climactic fight, or did everyone assume he stayed in the tavern, sitting the session out?
If his character was there, and took the same risks, then the fact that he wasn't should not prevent him getting a proper share of any loot.
Just because a flesh and blood person isn't round the table, able to speak up, doesn't mean the character wouldn't be totally aware of what was found, and how it was divided. The GM and other players should assume he made a realistic bid on any items that came up, rather than sit silent, while they all get sent to market to pay for other people's shiny new gear.
If the PC did not participate in the final fight, I can see some players taking the stance that the PC has no claim on any loot.
That still doesn't make it a valid point of view IMHO, or a wise choice, since other party members are supposed to be people your PCs have to rely on, so it makes sense to look out for their interests, so they can support you.
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Listen to Evil Lincoln and Black Raven.
Have a group chat about
A) Balanced PCs -- if one or two PCs is waaay cooler or weaker than others, it's not cool.
B) CR & EL balance in a published adventure -- if PCs are over or under powered, published combat encounters are gonna be too easy or too hard.
Remind the group that it's okay for the DM to alter things between sessions to get back to some kind of balance. The DM can decide if he wants to improve the other PCs' gear to meet the others and then do the extra DM-prep (making the monsters stronger) or if he wants to take away the Monk's Belt and other goodies so that the game gets back to balance.
If everyone's talking about it, when the DM makes the changes, Players will be accepting of loosing cool gear.
Listen to Evil Lincoln and Black Raven.
Have a group chat about
A) Balanced PCs -- if one or two PCs is waaay cooler or weaker than others, it's not cool.
B) CR & EL balance in a published adventure -- if PCs are over or under powered, published combat encounters are gonna be too easy or too hard.Remind the group that it's okay for the DM to alter things between sessions to get back to some kind of balance. The DM can decide if he wants to improve the other PCs' gear to meet the others and then do the extra DM-prep (making the monsters stronger) or if he wants to take away the Monk's Belt and other goodies so that the game gets back to balance.
If everyone's talking about it, when the DM makes the changes, Players will be accepting of loosing cool gear.
From the description of things I highly doubt the players will be accepting of losing their gear. I wouldn't assume that just because they are involved in the discussion. I know that plenty in my group would be crazy pissed if i took back gear I gave them that they liked regardless of if i talked to them about it first. Aside from breaking the suspension of disbelief and continuity, it just feels petty on the part of the dm alot of the time.
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I dunno, Kolokotroni, sure it can happen but I think if it's discussed it can only help. At the least, if a Player will become upset by (appropriately) loosing gear, the DM and rest of the group will know about it before it happens.
If a player (in this case the OP) speaks his observation and concerns that the game has become accidentally unbalanced and the DM sees that this is true (fights are too easy, one PC sucks compared to the rest), it's better for the DM to say "Hey guys, I gotta get the game balanced; I may have to take away some of the cooler stuff, sorry about accidently giving you guys too much gear too soon."
And then, the next session the BBEG shows up unexpectedly and uses a scroll of Mordenkainen's Disjunction on the Monk's Belt -- or the BBEG sends some super-thief to steal some stuff off the "B-word" PC, the Players know what's really going on.
I can't see a Player having a real problem with it if he's trying to be fair.
There's been many threads on GMs with problematic players. Possibly also many on this, but it is late (in my part of the world) and I couldn't be bothered searching for this (sorry :)).
I've played various forms of RPGs for...20 years or so...I'm not saying this to seem all wise and venerable (I'm not), just to say that I've seen my share of problematic players before.
But currently, I'm a player in a campaign (Second Darkness). The GM is a novice, which means the game is not exactly running smoothly, but I can bear with that...everything has a first. We are currently at level 4 (just started on Chapter 2), and I missed the last session, so not sure exactly what went on, but I was a bit surprised today, when I found out, the monk was running around in a Monk's Robe (13000 gp) and possibly had a few other items as well, while the party's rogue was slightly more modest, having "only" lesser bracers of archery, slippers of spider climbing, a handy haversack, +1 armor, not one but two +1 weapons and a few other items. I don't know what the party's sorcerer is lugging around, as he wasn't there, but I guess I've made my point...too much wealth. My own character (archer-based bard) is more or less spot on the WBL (6200 gp in total), spread over +1 armor, MW bow, MW melee weapon, efficient quiver, a few scrolls, three wands (one was paid for by "party treasure") and a couple of potions.
Now, to add spot to injury, the player of the monk has a tendency to "take up" a good amount of space in-game...he always makes "efficient" characters (I won't use the B-word, but it is borderline), has a problem (at least in my opinion) with social rules, is a cheater (or the luckiest man alive) and the boyfriend of the GM.
Basically, these things combined are sucking all my fun out of playing in the game. Should I try to do something to "save" it, or just abandon ship (like one other player already did)?
Thanks for listening*...
*or reading, as the case may be...
If you are not having fun my suggestion would be to cut out on this one. As someone who finished second darkness I can say the first two books were pretty fun and it was downhill fast and hard onto a bed of nails. I seem to remember loot sucking through the entire adventure and not in the direction your group is going, but that could have been due to the GM forgetting to give us items. I think by 11th level I had a +1 shield, +1 armor, druid vestments, haversack, and some scrolls in this campaign. I rate it .1 stars.
When you say "Monk Sold", where is this money going? It sounds like he selling the party loot for his own gain, instead of splitting it 4+ ways, which is the wrong answer. I did see mention of party treasure... so how is that working out?
The Monk wasn't GIVEN the robes, he PURCHASED them. Monk walks in to sell items, comes out with fancy new robes and 5gp each for the rest of you? Simply put... I think someone needs to relieve the Monk of his 'great power' by removing his 'responsibility' (the treasure list needs to be controlled by someone else).
You may or may not have an issue with the DM, but to me it sounds like the Monk player is the one sucking the fun out of this experience. If the DM is "involved" with the Monk player, you're probably S.O.L and I would find a new game.
I dunno, Kolokotroni, sure it can happen but I think if it's discussed it can only help. At the least, if a Player will become upset by (appropriately) loosing gear, the DM and rest of the group will know about it before it happens.
If a player (in this case the OP) speaks his observation and concerns that the game has become accidentally unbalanced and the DM sees that this is true (fights are too easy, one PC sucks compared to the rest), it's better for the DM to say "Hey guys, I gotta get the game balanced; I may have to take away some of the cooler stuff, sorry about accidently giving you guys too much gear too soon."
And then, the next session the BBEG shows up unexpectedly and uses a scroll of Mordenkainen's Disjunction on the Monk's Belt -- or the BBEG sends some super-thief to steal some stuff off the "B-word" PC, the Players know what's really going on.
I can't see a Player having a real problem with it if he's trying to be fair.
IMO, it goes over better if, instead of taking loot away, the DM just stops giving it out over the next several sessions until the PCs reach an appropriate level for what they already have. That way, you get to keep your supersword of awesomeness +2 ... but you're going to be using for the next 5 or 6 levels until your WBL can afford a +3.
As for what to do when certain PCs grab all the loot and leave others underpowered, one DM I ran with resorted to making certain items usable only by a certain class or race (that of the underpowered PC). Anyone else took damage when they tried to pick it up. A bit heavyhanded, but an effective way to deal with grabby players.
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You definitely need to talk to these people, to improve communication. And the player of the monk is near the top of your list. The GM, of course, is the absolute top, but you need to talk to both of them. If you decide to talk to them both at the same time, it's probably a good idea to have everyone else there, too.
Tell them your concerns. Be open. Hopefully, they'll respond as friends should.
If one player is cheating then quit, but it sounds like you missed 2 sessions in a row. I my game if you dont come you dont get a share of loot which inturn makes the people who did come much more powerful because of it. Looks like you missed an important session where things were sold and bought You missed it and I feel are a little bitter because of it. Now I tell my players that if they miss they get no loot for the session, but still get xp (to keep party on same level).
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Just like a job you aren't fond of, quitting is a bad idea. I would stick with it until you can find a better game to play in. That way you give it more time to improve and if it doesn't it isn't like saying "I would rather be doing nothing than this."Eh Wot?
You stick with a job you don't like because you need to pay bills. Gaming isn't a job, if you aren't having fun there is no point in playing.
Amen, brother. I'd bail.