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Dazing spell. When a creature takes damage from the spell, they need to make a save or be dazed for 1 round per spell level. So...what about spells that do damage over time?
Pain strike: 1d6 subdual damage for 1 round per level
Acid arrow: 2d4 for 1 round+1/3 levels
Elemental aura: cast four times by an eldritch knight (once for each element) to become a walking fire/ice/lightning/acid ball, and everyone who begins their turn within 5 ft (or 10 ft if you use widen spell) has to make FOUR saves against your level 3 spell, and failing ANY save results in 3 rounds of being dazed.
(You did of course take craft rod so you're tossing these out of metamagic rods, right?)
Am I reading the rules right? Is this possibly the most cheese-tastic use of the metamagic feat?
You can only have one Elemental Aura active at one time.
Of course, now I'm thinking of a Dazing Wall of Thorns...
Ah. Right. I didn't notice that line in the spell description in my excitement. However, it still remains a viable option since it targets the reflex save.
Acid arrow also remains a good option, since it bypasses SR (and many BBEGs have SR).
But oh yes, wall of thorns is also a very, very nice option *big evil grin*.
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You can only have one Elemental Aura active at one time.
Of course, now I'm thinking of a Dazing Wall of Thorns...
Ah. Right. I didn't notice that line in the spell description in my excitement. However, it still remains a viable option since it targets the reflex save.
Acid arrow also remains a good option, since it bypasses SR (and many BBEGs have SR).
But oh yes, wall of thorns is also a very, very nice option *big evil grin*.
Now cast Entangle and sit back to watch the show. Their dazed, I don't think they'll feel the pain for long...
And any damaging spell remains and option. The Will save is only given to avoid the dazing, and only when a spell doesn't have a saving throw of it's own.
You can only have one Elemental Aura active at one time.
Of course, now I'm thinking of a Dazing Wall of Thorns...
Ah. Right. I didn't notice that line in the spell description in my excitement. However, it still remains a viable option since it targets the reflex save.
Acid arrow also remains a good option, since it bypasses SR (and many BBEGs have SR).
But oh yes, wall of thorns is also a very, very nice option *big evil grin*.
Now cast Entangle and sit back to watch the show. Their dazed, I don't think they'll feel the pain for long...
And any damaging spell remains and option. The Will save is only given to avoid the dazing, and only when a spell doesn't have a saving throw of it's own.
I've generally found it worthwhile to have a disable targeting each save. Also, at higher levels of play, will and fort saves are usually the stronger if not strongest saves that enemies tend to have (unless you're up against say an enemy rogue). Thus, targeting a reflex save is a plus for me.
The point was that you can get obscene mileage out of this metamagic feat through spell that deal damage over a period of time. Now, if you can vary the saves to negate that damage, your mileage improves.
On that note, I revise my earlier statement of pain strike being a viable option. A fort save negates the spell completely. So...are there any spells out there that do damage per round, and that target fort saves? Added bonus if the spell is level 3 or lower, since my strategy would be to use a lesser metamagic rod to add the effect, then use heighten spell to ramp up the DC.
Also, to my pleasure, no one has contradicted my reading of the rules for this feat yet. This makes me a happy munchkin. =D
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
You can only have one Elemental Aura active at one time.
Of course, now I'm thinking of a Dazing Wall of Thorns...
Ah. Right. I didn't notice that line in the spell description in my excitement. However, it still remains a viable option since it targets the reflex save.
Acid arrow also remains a good option, since it bypasses SR (and many BBEGs have SR).
But oh yes, wall of thorns is also a very, very nice option *big evil grin*.
Now cast Entangle and sit back to watch the show. Their dazed, I don't think they'll feel the pain for long...
And any damaging spell remains and option. The Will save is only given to avoid the dazing, and only when a spell doesn't have a saving throw of it's own.
I've generally found it worthwhile to have a disable targeting each save. Also, at higher levels of play, will and fort saves are usually the stronger if not strongest saves that enemies tend to have (unless you're up against say an enemy rogue). Thus, targeting a reflex save is a plus for me.
The point was that you can get obscene mileage out of this metamagic feat through spell that deal damage over a period of time. Now, if you can vary the saves to negate that damage, your mileage improves.
On that note, I revise my earlier statement of pain strike being a viable option. A fort save negates the spell completely. So...are there any spells out there that do damage per round, and that target fort saves? Added bonus if the spell is level 3 or lower, since my strategy would be to use a lesser metamagic rod to add the effect, then use heighten spell to ramp up the DC.
Also, to my pleasure, no one has contradicted my reading of the rules for this feat yet. This makes me a happy munchkin. =D
I would think the intent of the feat is it works with damaging spells with a duration of "instantaneous." In other words, "Bang! You're dazed for X rounds."
Is it explicitly written that way? No. But I think that's what they were going for with this feat.
Well, the boards are eating my related rules question, so I might post it here first, then make a similar proper post when I am able. The question is this:
Elemental touch-buff or touch spell?
Unlike other touch spells, this one has a range of "personal" and a target of "you". Am I right to read this as a buff rather than a touch spell (i.e. you don't have to hold the charge for this)?
Also, if it is a buff, then each casting would not be an identical spell effect, but rather a different effect altogether provided you cast it choosing a different element. So wouldn't you be able to cast it four times, making your fist/touch/claw deal 1d6 of each element, with 4 fort saves against 4 separate effects? Could you then cast 4 dazing elemental touch spells on your fist for a quadruple save-or-dazed attack? (evil grin)
I've generally found it worthwhile to have a disable targeting each save. Also, at higher levels of play, will and fort saves are usually the stronger if not strongest saves that enemies tend to have (unless you're up against say an enemy rogue). Thus, targeting a reflex save is a plus for me.
The point was that you can get obscene mileage out of this metamagic feat through spell that deal damage over a period of time. Now, if you can vary the saves to negate that damage, your mileage improves.
On that note, I revise my earlier statement of pain strike being a viable option. A fort save negates the spell completely. So...are there any spells out there that do damage per round, and that target fort saves? Added bonus if the spell is level 3 or lower, since my strategy would be to use a lesser metamagic rod to add the effect, then use heighten spell to ramp up the DC.
Also, to my pleasure, no one has contradicted my reading of the rules for this feat yet. This makes me a happy munchkin. =D
The thing is, I have found the damage over time spells to generally be some of the weaker spells to begin with. They have really good damage potential, but then the party fighter walks up and hack the guy apart after the spell has only gone off once or twice.
The thing is, I have found the damage over time spells to generally be some of the weaker spells to begin with. They have really good damage potential, but then the party fighter walks up and hack the guy apart after the spell has only gone off once or twice.
I've generally found it worthwhile to have a disable targeting each save. Also, at higher levels of play, will and fort saves are usually the stronger if not strongest saves that enemies tend to have (unless you're up against say an enemy rogue). Thus, targeting a reflex save is a plus for me.
The point was that you can get obscene mileage out of this metamagic feat through spell that deal damage over a period of time. Now, if you can vary the saves to negate that damage, your mileage improves.
On that note, I revise my earlier statement of pain strike being a viable option. A fort save negates the spell completely. So...are there any spells out there that do damage per round, and that target fort saves? Added bonus if the spell is level 3 or lower, since my strategy would be to use a lesser metamagic rod to add the effect, then use heighten spell to ramp up the DC.
Also, to my pleasure, no one has contradicted my reading of the rules for this feat yet. This makes me a happy munchkin. =D
I agree. That's what makes this metamagic feat so fun! You're turning arguably sub-optimal spells into scary multi-opportunity disables. The trick now is finding the right spells to use them with. As mentioned before, a (heightened) acid arrow is great for use against enemies with spell resistance or low will saves. A widened elemental aura can also be used to target reflex saves, although this would arguably be best used by an arcane caster that is willing to wade into melee (dragon disciple/eldritch knight). For that matter, elemental fist on an eldritch knight/dragon disciple might be viable for fort-based dazing attacks-unless someone can find a better spell that forces a fort-save every round to avoid damage.
I know it has been a while since this thread started, but an Oracle in my group just started using a Lesser Dazing rod to cast Spiritual weapon. Not a very high save and it is affected by SR, but for a round per level things have to save or be dazed for 2 rounds. It has really simplified a few fights so far.