Divine Spell Failure?

[Arillius]

I'm in a campaign where an incident led to the lose of a finger for my cleric. My DM rules now that I have a spell failure chance on all my spells, and he's the kind who will keep it to himself and roll the percentage dice behind the board. The session ended without me getting anymore spells off, so I can't even guess if its a high probability.

My question is, can limb loss affect a cleric like this? If so, how is that there somatic components aren't screwed up in a similar manner while wearing armor? Is there anything that covers this kind of thing in the core rules?

[TriOmegaZero]

Complete houserule. I wouldn't play.

[Vaellen]

Not that I'm aware of. Sounds like your DM is just being a dick.

Depending on the rules for replacement characters, I'd let my cleric get killed in combat so I could replace him. I'd explain how unfair he's being and if that doesn't work I find a new DM.

[Kalyth]

Arillius wrote:

I'm in a campaign where an incident led to the lose of a finger for my cleric. My DM rules now that I have a spell failure chance on all my spells, and he's the kind who will keep it to himself and roll the percentage dice behind the board. The session ended without me getting anymore spells off, so I can't even guess if its a high probability.

My question is, can limb loss affect a cleric like this? If so, how is that there somatic components aren't screwed up in a similar manner while wearing armor? Is there anything that covers this kind of thing in the core rules?

First. You need only ONE free hand to cast spells with somatic components. So if you have only lost one finger you can use the other hand to cast.

The rules do not address the lose of fingers when discussing spell casting only that you must have one hand free to cast a spell with somatic components.

[KenderKin]

First only spells with somatic components could potentially be affected.....

I am assuming that you were not poisoned nor was the wound continuing to bleed, nor had an infection set up in the hand,

I would think your DM is creating a hostile play environment where the loss of a finger is making you "have a chance" of losing spells.

I know you are divine, but the arcane failures of armor for wizards should give a rough estimate (approximation)....

A buckler which affects one arm gives the arcane caster a 5% spell failure chance. IMO the maximum penalty a DM should give for a lost arm (entire arm) is 5%. I would say a lost finger should be less than that..... and likely nothing ie 0%

IMO

[TriOmegaZero]

Spell Failure wrote:

If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted.

Now, the DM is Rule Zeroing this, but as mentioned above, you only need one hand for somatic gestures. Also, your character should know how much harder it will be to cast your spells. He should at least be giving you the odds of success. If he's giving you 50% chance of failure, he's coming down very heavily on you.

As I said before, I would quit, or start using non-somatic spells.

[GrimSpider]

Since there no such thing as divine spell failure percent from any armor or conditions I've always assumed it was a matter of intent to do the somantic actions or that divine somantic actions were not very complicated like arcane.

The poster about one hand is right by the rules you can cast 100% fine with your other hand.

More importantly your DM is a dick, don't play with him if he won't see why hes making the game no fun. Remind him the DM wins when the story is fun not when the NPCs hurt/kill the players.

[Arillius]

Quitting is really much of an option for me. Aside from the fact that this is the only DnD Campaign with in an hours drive of me, its also my first and I happen to be friends with the DM. As for letting my character die, we're still around 3rd level, and if I re-roll another character I'll be losing a level when I do, and this character has about 5 sentient undead he's befriended, its some kinda of curse so there not really evil, who might not react to my new character that well

[StabbittyDoom]

Yeah, at most 5% failure, and ONLY if the spell had somatic components and was being cast with that hand. Also, you're character would be aware of roughly how much it was effecting their spells (just as one with cold/stiff hands can tell how hard doing something dexterous would be).
That's just being dick otherwise.

[Arillius]

And it was another pc who did this when I was unconscious, so he can steal a magic ring I wore. Its a game of evil/ neutral PC's, so things like that are almost common place.

I'll probably just end up using my other hand then.

[stringburka]

Your DM is an asshat. Somatic components for divine spells are assumed to be very simple, which is why armor isn't a problem.

Unless it's a really grim and gritty game where all players are treated equally and where you are all aware that the game will be hard on you, he's just a jerk.

[TriOmegaZero]

Yeah, ask what the percent is, if he won't tell, use non-somatic spells. I'm sorry you're saddled with the guy.

Arillius wrote:

I'll probably just end up using my other hand then.

Be aware, if you switch your weapon to your other hand, he'll probably rule that you're using it in an offhand, and stick a penalty to attacks with it on you. (This is also Rule Zero at work.) Sounds like the kind of thing he'd do from the limited understanding I have of him.

[Arillius]

I actually never specified which hand I had the ring on, so Ill simply say it was on my offhand the whole time.

[Majuba]

I think perhaps we're being a bit harsh on your DM. I would say he has made a mistake in penalizing you so much (unless it really is say, 5%, and he happened to roll under that repeatedly), but was trying to keep the game realistic and interesting by attributing *some* penalty for losing a whole finger.

I'm going to guess this has only been for one game, so it's a good time to talk to him about it. He may not have had much time to decide on this. A good thing to point out is that cleric spells can be cast even if your hand is in a locked gauntlet - they are really just broad motions most of the time.

Certainly nothing to quit a game with a friend over.

[Kalyth]

Arillius wrote:

I actually never specified which hand I had the ring on, so Ill simply say it was on my offhand the whole time.

I would ask him what hand you lost the finger on. Then tell him your character is the opposite handed. Do not state you are whatever-handed prior to him telling you which hand is missing the finger. Play hardball with the jerk. Just in my experience people like this dont like when someone "weasles" out of something they have slapped on them as a DM to Player. Have you ever stated why handedness your character was?

But from what I have heard so far. You may want to bail while the bailing is good. Just from what you have said I just see more situations like this coming up in the future. Or ride out the strom but if he continues to slap unfounded penalties and an fair rulings I would leave the group and just say. "Sorry your game isn't fun."

[KenderKin]

Or you could get into a PBP and save the gas. Have not seen any Dicky DMs on the play-by-posts......

Most PBPs recruit and play right here on paizo, even if you don't get into one most people enjoy applying and making new PCs!

[ntin]

GrimSpider wrote:

Remind him the DM wins when the story is fun not when the NPCs hurt/kill the players.

I have been doing it wrong all this time?

[Louis IX]

I'd argue this: Somatic components for divine spells are there so that the cleric makes some inspired movements to pray for his deity to grant him the spell. The movements themselves aren't important because the cleric isn't shaping a spell like a wizard does. I think that perfectly explains the lack of spell failure chance for casting divine spells in heavy armor.