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Create Pit
School conjuration (creation); Level sorcerer/wizard 2,
summoner 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (miniature shovel costing 10 gp)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect 10-ft.-by-10-ft. hole, 10 ft. deep/2 levels
Duration 1 round + 1 round/level
Saving Throw Reflex negates; Spell Resistance no
You create a 10-foot-by-10-foot extradimensional hole with
a depth of 10 feet per two caster levels (maximum 30 feet).
You must create the pit on a horizontal surface of sufficient
size. Since it extends into another dimension, the pit has
no weight and does not otherwise displace the original
underlying material. You can create the pit in the deck of a
ship as easily as in a dungeon floor or the ground of a forest.
Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to avoid falling into it.
In addition, the edges of the pit are sloped, and any creature
ending its turn on a square adjacent to the pit must make a
Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it.
Creatures subjected to an effect intended to push them into
the pit (such as bull rush) do not get a saving throw to avoid
falling in if they are affected by the pushing effect.
Creatures who fall into the pit take falling damage as normal.
The pit’s coarse stone walls have a Climb DC of 25. When the
duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with
the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over
the course of a single round.
I cast Create Pit. One or more baddies fall into the pit. Can I cast Create Pit again on the bottom of the first pit? Why or why not.
kthnxby!
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I would argue "no" because your pit isn't really a pit, it's an extradimensional space. I'm not sure where the explicit rule is stated, but it's generally understood that extradimensional spaces cannot exist within another. For example, if you bring a bag of holding into a rope trick, the bag of holding cannot be opened as long as it is in the rope trick.
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I would argue "no" because your pit isn't really a pit, it's an extradimensional space. I'm not sure where the explicit rule is stated, but it's generally understood that extradimensional spaces cannot exist within another. For example, if you bring a bag of holding into a rope trick, the bag of holding cannot be opened as long as it is in the rope trick.
So, what if a guy with a bag of holding falls into a pit?
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I would argue "no" because your pit isn't really a pit, it's an extradimensional space. I'm not sure where the explicit rule is stated, but it's generally understood that extradimensional spaces cannot exist within another. For example, if you bring a bag of holding into a rope trick, the bag of holding cannot be opened as long as it is in the rope trick.So, what if a guy with a bag of holding falls into a pit?
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Well I did a little digging and I found the rule.
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.
So a bag of holding in a create pit would not be accessible. This is an interesting turn of events for players who like to keep all their gear in a handy haversack.
I would also argue that the create pit would not open in the pit, but the moment the original create pit ended, the new pit would instantaneously form under the old pit (since the extradimensional space would open the moment it hit "normal" space). Nice little surprise to the guy who thought he was about to get of the pit.
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Thank you Mister Slanky, all that effort is appreciated.
I was kind of imagining that Create Pit kept the same horizontal surface, it's the walls and the space in between that is the extra dimensional space. So additional castings would simply extend the current pit as opposed to occupying its space. Since, technically, another Create Pit spell would not actually be sharing space with the first Pit.
Is there an APG question thread that the Dev's are answering out of? My search-fu seems to be failing me today.
EDIT: I just read the other pit spells. I would have to assume that each casting converts the area into a portal to an extra-dimensional space. Which means brand new floor.
I guess the only question would be, what if I cast it under debris, like boulders or crates or even a statue. Also, the Wall of Stone combo where you drop a flat wall over the pit before it expires.
I didn't do it in game, but I joked about casting Web inside a pit and dropping a torch down.
Well I did a little digging
You know, the spell does that for you, no need to dig.
I would agree with the others in saying that you can't cast the pit spell in side of a pit but what about casting the pit spell adjacent to another pit spell? Would the dimensional spaces combine into one large pit that is 20 by 10 feet long or would their be a weird barrier between the two?
Everytime I think of this spell I keep getting more ideas. Create a pit and then enemy hammer a target into the space above the pit. They fall the normal distance and then the distance of the pit. Indoors that is about 40 feet outdoors it would be like falling 60 feet.
Another cool trick is to have an alchemist toss his bombs down into the pit.
Lastly could you cast blade barrier at the bottom of a pit?
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Everytime I think of this spell I keep getting more ideas. Create a pit and then enemy hammer a target into the space above the pit. They fall the normal distance and then the distance of the pit. Indoors that is about 40 feet outdoors it would be like falling 60 feet.
Another cool trick is to have an alchemist toss his bombs down into the pit.
Lastly could you cast blade barrier at the bottom of a pit?
Again, don't forget that all those spells require line of sight. Since the pit's edges are sloped (requiring a reflex save to fall in), and you're looking at a 30' pit at 6th level, you're going to be hard pressed to see the targets at the bottom without flying overhead (and making yourself a target) or risking falling in when you step adjacent to the pit.
This makes doing things like driving your flaming sphere over the bad guys, or casting blade barrier at the bottom of the pit difficult. The alchemist has it just as bad off as all of his thrown weapons will incur a complete cover penalty.
Don't get me wrong, the spell is tremendously useful, but I get the feeling the designers deliberately made it so it can't be a murder-death-kill spell.
Everytime I think of this spell I keep getting more ideas. Create a pit and then enemy hammer a target into the space above the pit. They fall the normal distance and then the distance of the pit. Indoors that is about 40 feet outdoors it would be like falling 60 feet.
Another cool trick is to have an alchemist toss his bombs down into the pit.
Lastly could you cast blade barrier at the bottom of a pit?
Again, don't forget that all those spells require line of sight. Since the pit's edges are sloped (requiring a reflex save to fall in), and you're looking at a 30' pit at 6th level, you're going to be hard pressed to see the targets at the bottom without flying overhead (and making yourself a target) or risking falling in when you step adjacent to the pit.
This makes doing things like driving your flaming sphere over the bad guys, or casting blade barrier at the bottom of the pit difficult. The alchemist has it just as bad off as all of his thrown weapons will incur a complete cover penalty.
Don't get me wrong, the spell is tremendously useful, but I get the feeling the designers deliberately made it so it can't be a murder-death-kill spell.
Ya OK Line of Sight would be a problem for stuff like blade barrier because you can't aim it. However, flaming sphere are the bombs of a alchemist would not be any problem at all.
Remember the pit is only 10 by 10 which means a medium creature is going to be in one square. Flaming sphere all you have to do is roll it over the edge and toward the center and direct it down, you don't need to see to do that because you are just blindly directing it. Flaming sphere and the new spells ball lighting all stop when they hit something so you will always hit if you do that.
Likewise while an Alchemist's bombs only have a range of 20 feet they are still subject to gravity and will fall into the pit. Sure it would be a random chance that it hits square on target but the blast radius would pretty much fill up with entire bottom of the pit.
OK, here is one for you. Lets say you trap a bunch of enemies in one of the pit spells. You then cast wall of lava over the pit. Now the spell states that you can damage a wall of lava to make a hole but it instantly fills back up reducing it's entire mass. This suggests that the wall of lava is subject to gravity. If you follow that line of reasoning it would then fill the pit with lava.
It would basically be instant death because they would have 20 feet worth of lava all over them.
You then cast wall of lava over the pit.I'm sorry.. how are you doing this? Is there a reference for this spell as well?
-James
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a chunk of dried lava)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target lava wall whose area is up to one 5-ft. square/level (S)
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw see text; Spell Resistance no
This spell creates a vertical wall of lava that is 1 inch thick for
every 4 caster levels and composed of up to one 5-foot square per level. A wall of lava’s maximum height cannot exceed half of its width (with a minimum height of 5 feet). The wall cannot be conjured so that it occupies the same space as a creature or object.
A section of a wall of lava can be destroyed by damage (hardness 4, hp 90), but if a section is destroyed, the remaining lava in the wall immediately fills in any such hole created, reducing the wall’s overall size by one 5-foot square but remaining a contiguous barrier.
Each time a weapon strikes a wall of lava, it takes 2d6 points of fire damage (or the creature who strikes the wall takes 2d6 fire damage if the attack was via an unarmed strike or natural attack). A creature can move through a wall of lava as a full-round action by making a DC 25 Strength check—failure indicates that the creature is pushed back out of the wall to the point he just attempted to leave. A creature with a burrow speed can move through the wall using its burrow speed. An attempt to move through a wall of lava inflicts 20d6 fire damage. A wall of lava also radiates heat as if it were a wall of fire, although the heat from a wall of lava radiates from both sides. Once per round as a move action, you can direct the wall of lava to erupt. This causes a plume of lava to fire at any target within 60 feet of either side of the wall, but reduces the wall’s overall size by 1d4 5-foot square sections. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit the target, which takes 10d6 points of fire damage on a hit. Holes created in a wall of lava from this effect instantly reseal, reducing the overall size of the wall. All damage inflicted by physical contact with a wall of lava continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 5d6 or 10d6 points per round).
The pit is not an object blocking the path of the wall created and it has been pointed out that you can use a wall spell to cover a pit, which was genius for when the duration of the pit spell expires. In addition since you victim is in the pit the lava is not occupying his space when created but fills in the hole after it is created.
It clearly states that it fills in any holes to the wall but this suggests that it is subject to gravity thus it would fill in the whole.
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A section of a wall of lava can be destroyed by damage (hardness 4, hp 90), but if a section is destroyed, the remaining lava in the wall immediately fills in any such hole created, reducing the wall’s overall size by one 5-foot square but remaining a contiguous barrier.
It clearly states that it fills in any holes to the wall but this suggests that it is subject to gravity thus it would fill in the whole.
I think you're misreading the description. The spell says that if you create a hole in the wall itself, the lava fills the hole in the wall to maintain one contiguous wall. This does not mean the wall immediately fills holes beneath it, beside it, or around it. Basically the wall of lava is a self-healing wall, but it's still a wall and like all walls it will sit on top waiting for the spell to expire.
I think you're misreading the description. The spell says that if you create a hole in the wall itself, the lava fills the hole in the wall to maintain one contiguous wall. This does not mean the wall immediately fills holes beneath it, beside it, or around it. Basically the wall of lava is a self-healing wall, but it's still a wall and like all walls it will sit on top waiting for the spell to expire.A section of a wall of lava can be destroyed by damage (hardness 4, hp 90), but if a section is destroyed, the remaining lava in the wall immediately fills in any such hole created, reducing the wall’s overall size by one 5-foot square but remaining a contiguous barrier.
It clearly states that it fills in any holes to the wall but this suggests that it is subject to gravity thus it would fill in the whole.
No I am not miss reading it but reading into it. Besides it is pretty well accepted that iron walls can be tipped over. This also suggests that magical walls are affected by gravity. Thus a viscus wall should fill in the hole.
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No I am not miss reading it but reading into it. Besides it is pretty well accepted that iron walls can be tipped over. This also suggests that magical walls are affected by gravity. Thus a viscus wall should fill in the hole.
I don't think this is the kind of spell you should be reading into. The reason wall of iron can be tipped is because the spell description specifically says it can; there is no such indication in wall of lava that it oozes around, in fact, it specifically states that it is a "wall" that's only an inch thick and no less than five feet tall. Plain old every-day lava may be viscous, but the wall of lava is not.
No I am not miss reading it but reading into it. Besides it is pretty well accepted that iron walls can be tipped over. This also suggests that magical walls are affected by gravity. Thus a viscus wall should fill in the hole.I don't think this is the kind of spell you should be reading into. The reason wall of iron can be tipped is because the spell description specifically says it can; there is no such indication in wall of lava that it oozes around, in fact, it specifically states that it is a "wall" that's only an inch thick and no less than five feet tall. Plain old every-day lava may be viscous, but the wall of lava is not.
This spell creates a vertical wall of lava that is 1 inch thick for
every 4 caster levels
The minimum would be 3 inches thick and 5 inches thick at max unless you are going epic.
I would be viscous because it does state that if a hole is cut into it then the hole is filled in. That sounds viscous to me. Please note no other wall does that.
That is purely interpretation mind you and it is up to the GM to decide if it would happen unless a Dev came in and made a ruling.
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Alright, we've derailed a bit, but staying on the wall theme.
How would you handle a wall being put over a pit? Would it crush people? Displace them? Would they be lost in an extra-dimensional space only to reappear elsewhere?
Inquirering minds want to know.
Adding to this rather than creating a new thread...
What happens if I cast Grease on the side of a wall, such as within the pit? Would creatures climbing up fall back down?
What about Acid Fog? Since climbing is done at 1/4 speed and Acid Fog reduces this by half, do they move at 1/8th their normal speed?
What happens to these spells when the duration of the pit expires?
Yo dawg I herd you liek pits...
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hmmmm
#1
imagine a 30 x 30 room with the floor covered by a large sheet of paper.
party enters room.
Create pit cast and party falls in. Spell has a rather extended duration
Goblins come and use the paper to make a giant kite.
Do the pc's go flying?
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#2
20 foot wide corridor wooden floor. Party enters activating trap.
Trap casts create pit, party falls in.
Pressure plate in floor which is now the bottom of the pit gets stepped on.
Trap now rotates 20 foot section corridor containing the pit like a automatic murphy bed. The former floor containing the pit now functions as a wall blocking the off the origional corridor. Pit spell expires.
Where is the party?
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#3
Crve 20 by 20 by 2 foot pit into solid bedrock.
Cast create pit on the bottom of the 2 foot pit.
Trigger several decanters of endless water to fill pit.
Drop horizontal wall of iron to cover the dug out 20 x 20 pit.
Poke pin hole in iron wall/floor.
Weld, fabricate 60' tube over pinhole.
Place capsule containing one Goblin wearing a flying helmet, in tube.
Dispel pit.
Result: Space program?
Create pit + cloudkill = great fun!
I prefer Create pit and summon swarm. Nice and low level. If you use a bat swarm then there you are looking at 1d6 plus 1 bleed per turn. Sure the dc 11 save vs distraction won't do much but it might hamper the odd caster.
mind you for minion control summon spiders into the pit and those 2 dc 11 checks per turn might just do something.
random thoughts
~will