What's the benefit of a masterwork holy symbol?

[emirikol]

What's the benefit of a masterwork holy symbol?

Masterwork thieves tools give a benefit to certain checks. Which are affected for holy symbol? Turn undead?

jh

[San-Chez]

emirikol wrote:

What's the benefit of a masterwork holy symbol?

Masterwork thieves tools give a benefit to certain checks. Which are affected for holy symbol? Turn undead?

jh

It looks really cool!!!!

And it shows your deity how much you care ;-)

[Gorbacz]

There are no Masterwork Holy Symbols in the Core book or APG.

[yoda8myhead]

You can always purchase a more expensive holy symbol as an art object, at whatever price you want, but it equates to throwing away your money, since there's no mechanical difference between a holy symbol that costs 20 gp and one that costs 2000.

[MisterSlanky]

yoda8myhead wrote:

You can always purchase a more expensive holy symbol as an art object, at whatever price you want, but it equates to throwing away your money, since there's no mechanical difference between a holy symbol that costs 20 gp and one that costs 2000.

Your god is not happy that you consider opulent displays of affection towards him "throwing away money."

[Tamago]

DM willing, you might be able to get a small bonus on, say, Diplomacy checks when interacting with other members of your faith. But there aren't any rules for that sort of thing in the books.

[Ambrus]

yoda8myhead wrote:

but it equates to throwing away your money, since there's no mechanical difference between a holy symbol that costs 20 gp and one that costs 2000.

Unless your holy symbol happens to be painted onto the front of a 2000 gp siege engine. Hell, with a holy symbol like that, one doesn't even need cleric class levels to smite the enemies of his faith. =P

[Enevhar Aldarion]

If you happen to be playing some combination of cleric or paladin and wizard or sorcerer, your masterwork holy symbol could also be your arcane bond item. Since one of the categories for an arcane bond item is an amulet and a traditional holy symbol is basically an over-sized amulet, I think it would work fine. And your arcane bond item is automatically masterwork as well.

[bdk86]

Ambrus wrote:

Unless your holy symbol happens to be painted onto the front of a 2000 gp siege engine. Hell, with a holy symbol like that, one doesn't even need cleric class levels to smite the enemies of his faith. =P

"I have to bring the Ballista into town! It's +5 Keen Vorpal AND my holy symbol of Abadar! This is religious persecution!"

[Avatar-1]

Does it not make sense for a holy symbol to be used as a masterwork tool for UMD checks made to emulate a cleric? (ie. for cleric/divine items/features only)? By this I mean, the item is a masterwork tool (wooden holy symbol) valued at 50gp, not the silver holy symbol.

This makes a lot of sense to me, but all I've seen so far is no way to any suggestions about UMD masterwork tools. Keep in mind this only gives a +2 bonus to the check, and only for one part of the skill.

[Mike Mistele]

Avatar-1 wrote:

Does it not make sense for a holy symbol to be used as a masterwork tool for UMD checks made to emulate a cleric? (ie. for cleric/divine items/features only)? By this I mean, the item is a masterwork tool (wooden holy symbol) valued at 50gp, not the silver holy symbol.

This makes a lot of sense to me, but all I've seen so far is no way to any suggestions about UMD masterwork tools. Keep in mind this only gives a +2 bonus to the check, and only for one part of the skill.

I suspect this would fall into the dreaded category of "expect table variation". :-)

[Sister Isabella]

Ryan Bolduan wrote:

yoda8myhead wrote:

You can always purchase a more expensive holy symbol as an art object, at whatever price you want, but it equates to throwing away your money, since there's no mechanical difference between a holy symbol that costs 20 gp and one that costs 2000.

Your god is not happy that you consider opulent displays of affection towards him "throwing away money."

That depends on the god or goddess. I'm sure almighty Sarenrae, blessed goddess of light and goodness that she is, would prefer I spend the 2000 gp feeding orphans, curing the sick, or at least buying better equipment to help myself and my allies smite evil more effectively.

I do have a silver holy symbol, because it looks nicer, and it's harder to sunder than a cheap, wooden one. But I still have 3 wooden backups, just in case.

[Josh Spies]

Well, with a silver holy symbol, you could always throw it as an improvised ranged weapon to overcome DR/silver. If you throw a wooden one, it probably won't do as much damage or overcome any DR, and it'll probably break as well.

[Azten]

Change around the feat in Ultimate Combat that let's you use a loaded sling as a Flail and you're set!

[VanceMadrox]

Sister Isabella wrote:

Ryan Bolduan wrote:

yoda8myhead wrote:

You can always purchase a more expensive holy symbol as an art object, at whatever price you want, but it equates to throwing away your money, since there's no mechanical difference between a holy symbol that costs 20 gp and one that costs 2000.

Your god is not happy that you consider opulent displays of affection towards him "throwing away money."

That depends on the god or goddess. I'm sure almighty Sarenrae, blessed goddess of light and goodness that she is, would prefer I spend the 2000 gp feeding orphans, curing the sick, or at least buying better equipment to help myself and my allies smite evil more effectively.

I do have a silver holy symbol, because it looks nicer, and it's harder to sunder than a cheap, wooden one. But I still have 3 wooden backups, just in case.

Agreed. I bet Shelyn would love a beautiful well crafted and adorned Holy Symbol

[LazarX]

It's something that you can use as a foundation for Create Wondrous Item. But it's not a tool for a skill, so the comparison theive's tools does not apply.

[colemcm]

Since the ARG lists a masterwork holy symbol in the Vampire Slayer's Kit under the Dhampir entry, it would be nice if Paizo would clear this up.

[Mystic Lemur]

Avatar-1 wrote:

Does it not make sense for a holy symbol to be used as a masterwork tool for UMD checks made to emulate a cleric?

Every time someone says something like this, I think of that one guy from the Mummy who wears every holy symbol and tries half of them against Imhotep. When he pulls out the Star of David, I can just hear the player saying "Hah! Nat 20!" and the DM smiling that evil smile.

[Grolloc]

Sometimes you just need a silver improvised weapon that shows you really care.

It takes 75gp plus an "optional" 100gp in Jewelry for the Noble's Outfit for a night at the opera... do you really think Baron Von Snobbishton is going to be impressed without one? Nothing says poseur cleric like teak.

Add a file and you have a stylish container for your powdered silver components for many spells: Bless Water, Magic Circle Vs Evil, Undeath Ward, Daemon ward, Holy Ice, and See Invisibility.

Immune to those heathen druid's Warp Wood spells. Not that it's ever happened to me...

[CanisDirus]

Mystic Lemur wrote:

Avatar-1 wrote:

Does it not make sense for a holy symbol to be used as a masterwork tool for UMD checks made to emulate a cleric?

Every time someone says something like this, I think of that one guy from the Mummy who wears every holy symbol and tries half of them against Imhotep. When he pulls out the Star of David, I can just hear the player saying "Hah! Nat 20!" and the DM smiling that evil smile.

Slightly off-topic, but given your keen eye, I thought you might enjoy it.

I was playing in a home-game once years ago (pre-Pathfinder) where I was a cleric of the goddess of luck, chance, and trickery (so he, of course, went around dressed like a beggar and was totally nutso-crazy). His goddess put a little trick on him as well, making me roll 1d4 every time I wanted to "turn undead", the number I rolled indicating how many different symbols/languages I had to try before it "took" (1 - standard action, 2 - standard and move action, 3 - full round action, 4 - full round action *and* swift action in the next round before it went off).

The Mummy was my GM's favorite movie of all time :)

[Benrislove]

mechanically, there are some higher level cleric spells that require more expensive holy symbols as a focus.

destruction is the only one that comes to mind, but there are probably more.

adamantine holy symbols are boss. sunder this!

[drayen]

A masterwork holy symbol would go towards satisfying the jewelry requirement for the proper application of a courtier's or noble's outfit.

[Justin Riddler]

The holy symbols available in PFS are:

• Wooden - 1gp
• Silver - 25gp
• Wayfinder Holy Symbol - 500gp, 2PA (250gp for pathfinder discount)

All other "holy symbols" are not holy symbols by rules but rather art objects that look like holy symbols - as you are not allowed to create your own items with their own values in PFS.

The best use I have come up with for more expensive holy symbols is for the feat False Focus:

False Focus wrote:

Prerequisite: Knowledge (religion) 1 rank, ability to cast arcane spells.

Benefit: By using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component. For example, if you use a silver holy symbol worth 25 gp, you do not have to provide material components for an arcane spell if its components are worth 25 gp or less. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than the value of the divine focus, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal.

Normal: A divine focus has no efect when used as a component in arcane spells.

[kinevon]

Justin Riddler wrote:

The holy symbols available in PFS are:

• Wooden - 1gp
• Silver - 25gp
• Wayfinder Holy Symbol - 500gp, 2PA (250gp for pathfinder discount)

All other "holy symbols" are not holy symbols by rules but rather art objects that look like holy symbols - as you are not allowed to create your own items with their own values in PFS.

The best use I have come up with for more expensive holy symbols is for the feat False Focus:

False Focus wrote:

Prerequisite: Knowledge (religion) 1 rank, ability to cast arcane spells.

Benefit: By using a divine focus as part of casting, you can cast any spell with a material component costing the value of that divine focus (maximum 100 gp) or less without needing that component. For example, if you use a silver holy symbol worth 25 gp, you do not have to provide material components for an arcane spell if its components are worth 25 gp or less. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than the value of the divine focus, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal.

Normal: A divine focus has no efect when used as a component in arcane spells.

Juston, I seem to recall that the discussion is around the new holy symbols introduced in Ultimate Equipoment, and that they are, indeed, legal for PFS.

But, yes, when I saw the one at 100 gp, I immediately flashed on that feat, since i had only recently looked it up for a different reason.

[Justin Riddler]

kinevon wrote:

Juston, I seem to recall that the discussion is around the new holy symbols introduced in Ultimate Equipoment, and that they are, indeed, legal for PFS.

But, yes, when I saw the one at 100 gp, I immediately flashed on that feat, since i had only recently looked it up for a different reason.

Aha! I see now, I was unaware new holy symbols had been introduced. With that, here is the list of available holy symbols (though my previous list is "always available", and this one will require Ultimate Equipment):

• Wooden - 1gp
• Iron - 5gp
• Silver - 25gp
• Gold - 100gp
• Platinum - 500gp
• Tattoo - 100gp

These have no mechanical benefit except for the False Focus feat (above)

[Mat Black]

Justin Riddler wrote:

These have no mechanical benefit except for the False Focus feat (above)

and for the destruction spell (and possibly others), as ben noted above (though that will really only come up in high level play anyway).

[LazarX]

yoda8myhead wrote:

You can always purchase a more expensive holy symbol as an art object, at whatever price you want, but it equates to throwing away your money, since there's no mechanical difference between a holy symbol that costs 20 gp and one that costs 2000.

It can become the basis of a wondrous magic item if you enchant it. Or an arcane bond if you're a particurlarly pious wizard.