Replaces.
As per general rules of Polymorph, you lose your natural form's attacks and gain those of the form you morph into.
...and there's also the fact that no GM would let you do it anyways.
Replaces.
As per general rules of Polymorph, you lose your natural form's attacks and gain those of the form you morph into.
...and there's also the fact that no GM would let you do it anyways.
Actually, in the case of the draconic sorceror, it even specifically mentions he can regain his claws in any form.
So, a draconic disciple can turn into, say, a water elemental, and grow two claws and a bite that do energy damage...
If he transforms into a dragon, however, his claws and bite replace the claws and bite from the dragon form. They don't add on. So he goes from two normal claws and a bite to whatever bite and claw he gets from his draconic abilities.
He can also use two different breath weapons. One from his class abilities and one from his polymorph effect. Not bad, huh?
If he transforms into a dragon, however, his claws and bite replace the claws and bite from the dragon form. They don't add on. So he goes from two normal claws and a bite to whatever bite and claw he gets from his draconic abilities.He can also use two different breath weapons. One from his class abilities and one from his polymorph effect. Not bad, huh?
You're right, of course. I was mainly replying to the "would a Draconic Sorcerer in Dragon form be able to use two different breath weapons and four claw attacks" part (although I should have said that the two breath weapons can be used but not at the same time).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Read this.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Using iterative attacks (including unarmed strikes, which are not natural attacks) gives you only one attack per round at first level (even if you could strike with any of your limbs), but you also gain additional attacks as you level up (and get to BAB 6, 11, and 16) and gain other abilities (TWF comes to the mind).
Using natural attacks gives a creature a fixed number of attacks, whatever HD or level it may be. (they shouldn't have written "instead" in the description you quoted)
For instance, a wolf only has one bite attack per round. A tiger can have 2 claws (primary), 1 bite (primary), and 2 rake (secondary) attacks.
If you are a level 20 fighter with TWF etc, when morphed into a wolf, you get only one attack per round despite your other abilities.
If you are morphed into a dragon, you gain the dragon's natural attacks.
Now, this gets complicated when you want to use both iterative attacks and natural ones (if you happen to be able to, like using the barbarian's bite rage power, or the sorcerer's claws). Read that and/or follow this:
1) you have to decide beforehand if you are going to use both iterative and natural attacks in one round
--> consequence on your natural attacks: they all become secondary (BAB-5 to attack, half Str to damage)
--> consequence on your iterative attacks: you are considered as "fighting with two weapons", with all penalties incurred (-4 to attack, or -2 if you have TWF)
2) you can't use the same limb to make both an iterative attack and a natural attack
For example, if you have claws, a bite, a BAB of +6, a sword, and TWF, if you decide to go all out, you can make iterative attacks with the sword (+6-2 /+1-2) and also a bite and a claw swipe with your free "hand" (+6-5 / +6-5).
Side note about point #2: unarmed attacks can be made with any limb. Unless you are using a specific weaponry (brass knuckles for instance), you can make all your unarmed iterative attacks with your feet, and still use both claws for natural attacks.
|
So basically for a dragon disciple with a bite and 2 claw attacks, 6 BAB (or more) doesn't really do anything as far as additional attacks?
He could do two claw and one bite attack. He could carry a weapon in one claw and do two weapon attacks, a bite and a claw attack. He would suffer penalties for these extra attacks, heavier penalties if he doesn't also have two weapon fighting. If the dragon disciple has a two handed weapon in his hands, he can only do two weapon attacks and his bite attack.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So basically for a dragon disciple with a bite and 2 claw attacks, 6 BAB (or more) doesn't really do anything as far as additional attacks?
Yes. Note that he gets these attacks no matter what, so a Sor1/DD2 with a mere +1 BAB has the same 3 attacks, all at full BAB and 100% Str. That's more than a fighter.
As said in previous posts, a character with these three natural attacks and a +6 BAB could do either:
- 3 natural attacks at +6,
OR
- 2 iterative attacks (using a weapon or unarmed strikes) at +6/+1 -- perhaps more if using TWF: then it's at +4/+4/-1,
OR
- his iterative attacks AND his natural attacks, provided the same limb doesn't do both (and applying the appropriate penalties)
In the latter case, if you don't have TWF, you'd attack at +2/-3 with the iterative attacks, and +1 with all available natural attacks.
If you have TWF, you can choose to use your off-hand claw to make another iterative attack at +4 instead of a natural attack at +1. If you do, your sequence would look like +4 (main weapon)/+4 (offhand weapon)/+1 (main weapon)/+1 (bite)
As a side note, when Beta came around, I was agreeing that 2x 1d6 claws was a bit much for a sorcerer. When v1.0 came around, I saw that the nerf was limiting the number of uses (to a mere 3+Cha rounds per day). And I said "WTF?" Those claws aren't a physical attribute of the sorcerer, now, they are a magical ability (and, considering the number of daily uses, a last-resort type).