Why would I ever buy a ki mat for 10,000gp to regain 1 i point per hour (with a successful check) when I can just buy a ring of sustenance for 2,500gp and get ALL of my ki points back after 2 hours of rest?
Why would I ever buy a ki mat for 10,000gp to regain 1 i point per hour (with a successful check) when I can just buy a ring of sustenance for 2,500gp and get ALL of my ki points back after 2 hours of rest?
Ki mats don't take a ring slot plus pretty comfy
Sounds like flavour treasure to me, something to monk would be gifted from, say, his old master, or would receive from a lockbox in the bottom of a dungeon.
Not something to buy, but to receive. The price is included as a standard piece of information in the item statblock.
It fits thematically? Why ever buy an ever burning torch when you can cast continual flame on a dull grey ioun stone? Some items work better for some tasks than others, but really I think the smitter hit it dead on. A monk can be served very well by a ring, so taking one up for a ring of sustenance is taking up a slot you could use for a ring of spell storing, protection, force shield, energy resistance, etc.
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Why would I ever buy a ki mat for 10,000gp to regain 1 i point per hour (with a successful check) when I can just buy a ring of sustenance for 2,500gp and get ALL of my ki points back after 2 hours of rest?
The ring slot point.
And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.
And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.
It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
What book is the Ki Mat in? I don't remember ever reading about it.
It's in the new Advanced Player's Guide.
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And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
I never disputed that. But can you rest again 2 hours later, after a long hard fight with a horde of demons that exhausted all your ki points?
I never disputed that. But can you rest again 2 hours later, after a long hard fight with a horde of demons that exhausted all your ki points?And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
Pretty much agree with alexander here. My group (regardless of DM) has always used the ring as giving you 2 hours sleep during the party camp time, then that PC usually takes watch the rest of the time. It never gave you a complete second recharge during the same 24 hour period.
I never disputed that. But can you rest again 2 hours later, after a long hard fight with a horde of demons that exhausted all your ki points?And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
Sorry. I misunderstood your post.
No, I don't think you can get them back twice in a 24 hour period.
I thought you were disputing the fact that the two hour rest would get back spells.
Again, sorry.
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And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
What book is the Ki Mat in? I don't remember ever reading about it.It's in the new Advanced Player's Guide.
The ring of sustinence "allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once a day."
The ki mat, however, DOES allow the MONK to get 1 point of ki back every hour, hence the 10,000 g.p. price tag. A ring of sustinence would let him get them all back the next morning, but he'd only need 2 hrs of sleep/meditation instead of 8.
The ki mat, however, gives 1 back RIGHT AT THE END OF 1 HOUR'S MEDITATION.
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And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
What book is the Ki Mat in? I don't remember ever reading about it.It's in the new Advanced Player's Guide.
I don't see where in the ring of sustenance where it says it refreshes all class based x/day abilities. It specifically mentions spells because I believe it is supposed to only work for prepared spells. Interpreting it this would allow a barbarian to get more rages after 2 hours or a bard more performances.
The ki mat, however, DOES allow the MONK to get 1 point of ki back every hour, hence the 10,000 g.p. price tag. A ring of sustinence would let him get them all back the next morning, but he'd only need 2 hrs of sleep/meditation instead of 8.
The ki mat, however, gives 1 back RIGHT AT THE END OF 1 HOUR'S MEDITATION.
I bolded it for emphasis of anyone missing the point - but yes, I agree - WHY take this item? It's terrible.
*confused look*
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Admittedly it's use isn't great and is incredibly situational- but if you were under eternal siege from a horde of demons, already rested and used all your ki points, you'd think- Aha, my ki mat of course! and scurry off to meditate.
That and I do believe monks have better uses for a ring slot than a ring of sustenance...
I don't see where in the ring of sustenance where it says it refreshes all class based x/day abilities. It specifically mentions spells because I believe it is supposed to only work for prepared spells. Interpreting it this would allow a barbarian to get more rages after 2 hours or a bard more performances.And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
What book is the Ki Mat in? I don't remember ever reading about it.It's in the new Advanced Player's Guide.
You are resting. The ring says you gain the full benefits of rest in 2 hours rather than 8. Many class abilities refresh when you rest.
Seems pretty clear cut to me. The mention of spells specifically is just a clarification since that wasn't true in v3.5.
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I don't see where in the ring of sustenance where it says it refreshes all class based x/day abilities. It specifically mentions spells because I believe it is supposed to only work for prepared spells. Interpreting it this would allow a barbarian to get more rages after 2 hours or a bard more performances.And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
What book is the Ki Mat in? I don't remember ever reading about it.It's in the new Advanced Player's Guide.You are resting. The ring says you gain the full benefits of rest in 2 hours rather than 8. Many class abilities refresh when you rest.
Seems pretty clear cut to me. The mention of spells specifically is just a clarification since that wasn't true in v3.5.
You ALSO have to look at those class abilities; there's TWO requirements for a recharge: i.e. once per 24 hours and 8 hours rest.
The ring of sustinence only helps with the 8 hour rest thing, not the "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing.The ki mat helps with that "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing, though admittedly not very quickly.
You ALSO have to look at those class abilities; there's TWO requirements for a recharge: i.e. once per 24 hours and 8 hours rest.
The ring of sustinence only helps with the 8 hour rest thing, not the "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing.
The ki mat helps with that "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing, though admittedly not very quickly.
Yes, I know. I still think the ring is better.
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Yes, I know. I still think the ring is better.You ALSO have to look at those class abilities; there's TWO requirements for a recharge: i.e. once per 24 hours and 8 hours rest.
The ring of sustinence only helps with the 8 hour rest thing, not the "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing.
The ki mat helps with that "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing, though admittedly not very quickly.
Ofc it is... But the ring slot is a lot to give up at high levels.
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And most DM's wouldn't allow you to rest and regain powers/spells more than once in a 24 hour period. Can't remember if thats RAW though.It's not. In Pathfinder, it specifically says that a ring of sustenance will allow a spellcaster to prepare new spells with only 2 hours of rest.
What book is the Ki Mat in? I don't remember ever reading about it.It's in the new Advanced Player's Guide.
Ogay. Just making sure.
(edit) saw the next post; ogay, never mind.
Ofc it is... But the ring slot is a lot to give up at high levels.Yes, I know. I still think the ring is better.You ALSO have to look at those class abilities; there's TWO requirements for a recharge: i.e. once per 24 hours and 8 hours rest.
The ring of sustinence only helps with the 8 hour rest thing, not the "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing.
The ki mat helps with that "ONE RECHARGE PER 24 HOURS" thing, though admittedly not very quickly.
Very true, though of all the classes that might survive being short a "pump ring," the monk is likely the best choice.
Ideally, a monk will have both items. That way, once per day, he can regain all his ki points in 2 hours, and then gain even more as needed much more slowly should the need arise.
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I kinda see the point that the ki mat is kinda a big spend for a little bang. Historically, though, I feel like the monk, and especially the druid didn't seem to me to have a whole crapload of magic items especially for them. Bard's kinda near the redhead stepchild zone there, you get some funky magic lutes, but at least they can use some wands and junk.
So I'm at least glad the monks got something.
I think it could have been a fair bit cheaper, seeing as how monks are still quite a step below other classes, but I don't think it's that bad. At high levels when the cost isn't a big issue, it's simply a small bonus, "gain a ki point for every hour of non-sleep rest".
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I kinda see the point that the ki mat is kinda a big spend for a little bang. Historically, though, I feel like the monk, and especially the druid didn't seem to me to have a whole crapload of magic items especially for them. Bard's kinda near the redhead stepchild zone there, you get some funky magic lutes, but at least they can use some wands and junk.
So I'm at least glad the monks got something.
Well, I dunno about the whole little bang part here, ki points are awesome huge for monks and at least as far as things go in the games I've played I can think on at least once or maybe twice a day the monk would be able to take advantage. Of course buying one on the open market might suck but that is why we have spellcaster party members =D
That and cool DM's who are looking for something unique to give the party monk instead of just another weapon they'll rarely use.
I kinda see the point that the ki mat is kinda a big spend for a little bang. Historically, though, I feel like the monk, and especially the druid didn't seem to me to have a whole crapload of magic items especially for them. Bard's kinda near the redhead stepchild zone there, you get some funky magic lutes, but at least they can use some wands and junk.
So I'm at least glad the monks got something.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I have a fellow player who thinks the APG didn't do enough for his rogue (not like it did for other classes at least).
You ALSO have to look at those class abilities; there's TWO requirements for a recharge: i.e. once per 24 hours and 8 hours rest.
Here's what it says about a monk's ki pool recovery:
"The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive."
Nothin' about 24 hours.
EDIT: Actually, there's only one morning every 24 hours, if you think about it. (Duh.) :-P
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EDIT: Actually, there's only one morning every 24 hours, if you think about it. (Duh.) :-P
That's kinda what I meant; though I guess my saying "once every 24 hours" could kinda infer a lot of other things.
I think there was a time back there when this cleric got his stuff back at DAWN, whereas that cleric got his stuff back at NOON when he danced skyclad widdershins 12 times around a maypole, which led me to use the "once every 24 hour" type terminology...
The thing this item does for me is that it provides a precedent for Craft Wonderous Items, to make a slotless item that regenerates an 1/2 level + stat per day class feature. I don't think it's much of a stretch to use the same type of cost structure for the other x/day abilities either. Plus, if you make the item take up a slot on the body then per the item crafting guidlines it would cost half as much. Perhaps a mantle that regenerates 1 use of Lay on Hands per hour, for 5,000 (or perhaps 7,500 to avoid the requirement of Rest) doesn't sound bad at all to me.
You buy a ki mat because it ties the room together, man.
You buy a ki mat because it ties the room together, man.
Exactly. Plus, it goes with the abundand loveseat and the diamond curtains.
You buy a ki mat because it ties the room together, man.
I just hope it doesn't get stolen by Daemonic nihilists.
Not to de-rail a FANTASTIC interior design thread, but the problem I have with the ki mat also has to do with the required check. You have to make a straight wisdom check against a dc 10+your current ki pool. Unless your ki pool is nearly spent it's going to be tough to make that check.
Let's say you have a level 15 monk with a +5 wisdom modifier. You normally have 12 ki points, and you need to be down to half of your pool before you will have a 50% chance of not wasting your hour of meditation.
50% is odds I will often take on an attack roll or even some skill checks. I can't imagine wasting an hour, and 10k gold on it, though.
That kinda stuff attracts lawful evil entities. I'm certain of it.You buy a ki mat because it ties the room together, man.Exactly. Plus, it goes with the abundand loveseat and the diamond curtains.
Hence the term "feng shui mouse trap".
Devil 1: "A monk bean bag!"
Devil 2: "And a bookshelf of the sun and the moon - no, wait, this is Ikea!"
Devil 1: "Still, everything here is so attractive."
Devil 2: "You're right! In fact, it's... TOO ATTRACTIVE.
Devil Akbar: "IT'S A TRAP!"
*Floor disappears, devils fall into entropy pool*
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That kinda stuff attracts lawful evil entities. I'm certain of it.You buy a ki mat because it ties the room together, man.Exactly. Plus, it goes with the abundand loveseat and the diamond curtains.Hence the term "feng shui mouse trap".
Devil 1: "A monk bean bag!"
Devil 2: "And a bookshelf of the sun and the moon - no, wait, this is Ikea!"
Devil 1: "Still, everything here is so attractive."
Devil 2: "You're right! In fact, it's... TOO ATTRACTIVE.
Devil Akbar: "IT'S A TRAP!"*Floor disappears, devils fall into entropy pool*
I love entropy noodle soup with devil chunks. Nom.
Ice devils make the soup too cold.
This is entropy. Ice burns in there.
Devils have wings.
Entropy fails.
They're far too surprised by the floor disappearing while they were ogling the ki mats to use their wings before they hit the pool.
Those lawful types aren't good with sudden changes. I was once able to ambush an entire infernal legion by painting their fortress pink while they were gone. I was able to walk through their ranks, slitting throats.
The most disturbing was the expressions of bliss on their faces when they saw the pink fortress of doom! They sure died happy!
Those were kobolds. Wuppty do.
Why would I ever buy a ki mat for 10,000gp to regain 1 i point per hour (with a successful check) when I can just buy a ring of sustenance for 2,500gp and get ALL of my ki points back after 2 hours of rest?
SLEEP, not rest. I dunno about YOU, but not everybody I know can just sleep at the drop of a hat. Also, using a Ki Mat you would still be aware of your surroundings. Taking a nap with Ring of Sustenance? Not so much.
Additionally, many monk abilities require you to have 1 or more Ki point, but don't necessarily expend Ki points. So the Ki mat lets you get back that necessary 1 point in 1/2 the time. And you don't have to spend a week attuning it.
OTOH, even adding the Sustenance effect to any other ring is still cheaper than the Ki Mat. It's definitely way overpriced, the Ki Mat.
I think the much bigger problem relates to players thinking their PCs should be able to just buy whatever magic items they want.
Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games
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I think the much bigger problem relates to players thinking their PCs should be able to just buy whatever magic items they want.
Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games
To be fair, thats gonna be dependent on how the GMs like their games run.
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I think the much bigger problem relates to players thinking their PCs should be able to just buy whatever magic items they want.
Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games
Well Mark, I agree entirely. As both a player and a DM, I prefer some degree of challenge in most aspects of the game. Tracking down a specific magic item for your PC is not only very gamist but doesn't make sense a LOT of the time. Your character out adventuring is probably not going to just know off the cuff what "X Super Magic Item" is, where to find it, or how much it costs.
I think in general when discussion is sparked on these message-boards it relates to some non-existent sandbox world where characters are just a set of numbers and the world is their oyster.