|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The Rage Prophet class ability "Savage Seer" says a rage prophet's class level stacks with barbarian (and I assume oracle even though it's not actually there) levels for determining the effects of his rage powers, oracle revelations, and his oracle's curse. This does not grand additional abilities.
I understand how it works with the above features that were taken as part of the class progressions leading up to rage prophet eligibility, but I'm curious how the extra rage power and extra revelation feats work in this context. Do you add your rage prophet levels to your barbarian/oracle levels to determine if you are eligible for higher level rage powers/revelations?
I hope the answer is yes, but I have a feeling the answer is no.
My whole point is that I'm conceptualizing a rage prophet who has the spirit totem rage powers, but greater spirit totem requires lvl 10 barbarian which is completely impossible as a rage prophet...am I just SoL?
For your core question, I'm not sure (and will mark it for FAQing in a sec). But it is not impossible to be a 10th level Barbarian and a Rage Prophet, just to take all ten levels in the PRC. A Barbarian 10/Oracle 1/Rage Prophet 9 would be perfectly viable, although it would loose Greater rage, a Mystery and a level of spell casting. (In fact, if I were building one, I'd probably hold out to 11th level Barabarian for Greater Rage, and only take 8 levels of Rage Prophet)
I don't think you can consider, for example, that a Barb 5/Oracle 1/RageProphet 1 allows you to buy 6th level barbarian rage powers with ExtraSomething feat. At higher levels, it would steal away too much from a barbarian-only (or oracle-only) build anyway, considering some strong powers require 16th level and stuff.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
At higher levels, it would steal away too much from a barbarian-only (or oracle-only) build anyway, considering some strong powers require 16th level and stuff.
Also worth considering is that Rage Prophet is a Barbarian/Oracle specific prestige class, and therefore it sort of makes sense for savage seer to count towards the level prerequisites of abilities. Prophets would still lose the levels of their other base class from that total. (Which means they'd be at least one level behind for Barbarian, and assuming they're aiming for the PrC at 7th level, 3 to 5 levels for the oracle.)
Also, Rage Prophet does not grant Revelations or Rage Powers by itself - the character would still need to spend feats for extra revelation/rage power, or class out of the PrC.
As the rules are written, this does not seem to be the case. If this gets a FAQ, we'll get to see if this is intended or just an oversight.
It might be just the power of positive thinking, but I would think that rage prophet would stack with barbarian or oracle for level requirements for mysteries or rage powers.
Keep in mind you give up gaining new mysteries or rage powers without taking feats, also getting the lvl 16 abilities requires at least lvl 18 characters, maybe higher.
If you are barb 2, oracle 4 then go into rage prophet, you wouldn't be able to take a 16th level barb power until lvl 20. Seems okay to me.
I`m pretty sure it has been verified by Paizo that Rage Prophet does not increase your effective Barb/Oracle level (yes, that`s an error that you noted) for MEETING PRE-REQ`s, but only for increasing the EFFECT of abilities you already have. You can take Extra Rage Power or Revelation Feats, but only with the Barb/Oracle levels you already have.
Effectively, this means you should probably focus more in one or the other (of Barb/Oracle), so that you can at least get 8th level Pre-Req Powers from one or the other.
I`m pretty sure it has been verified by Paizo that Rage Prophet does not increase your effective Barb/Oracle level (yes, that`s an error that you noted) for MEETING PRE-REQ`s, but only for increasing the EFFECT of abilities you already have. You can take Extra Rage Power or Revelation Feats, but only with the Barb/Oracle levels you already have.
Effectively, this means you should probably focus more in one or the other (of Barb/Oracle), so that you can at least get 8th level Pre-Req Powers from one or the other.
this means Rage Prophet suck.
No full BABNo full spell casting - they lose at least 5 levels.
No new revelations
No new bonus spells except Rage Prophet Mystery:
No new rage powers
No new Barbarian powers, except Greater rage as a top cap ability.
Not meeting pre-reqs for new rage powers / revelations which you still have to buy using feats.
What is the purpose of the class? A melee class? A caster class?
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
NECRO-THREAD...
Yet even without all of that, it still is actually a pretty strong PrC,
because it actually gets good Class Abilities... I.e. their DCs and Concentraton Checks will be right up there will Full Casters thanks to adding CON and Barbarian Level (I have even seen min-maxers post about how they want to use the PrC to have higher DCs than a Full Caster), and they can actually fight/cast/rage at the same time very well. Alot of people seem to ignore the scaling Spirit Guide/Guidance effect, which more than balances the medium BAB vs. affected enemies.
Personally, I would like it even more if it didn´t REQUIRE Moment of Clarity, but hey.
Buying Rage Power/Revelations with Feats is very viable.
And like I recommended, you should DEFINITELY focus in EITHER Barbarian OR Oracle, so that you take 8 class levels in one, thus qualifying for the good ´mid-level´ powers of one or the other.
I´m still not 100% sure if it is intended to scale level-dependent Oracle Abilities.
It seems like it should, but per RAW, no. FAQ would be nice (or just a post from a Paizoid if the RAW is correct)
NECRO-THREAD...
Yet even without all of that, it still is actually a pretty strong PrC,
No it isn't.
Perhaps if you build one at level 15 or something, but if you actually have to play one from level 1 it does suck.
....come to think of it. Even if you create it at level 15 it will suck.
As a Barb you loose 4 BAB and all the good rage powers and most of the good Barb stuff, DR, Uncanny dodge (can't be flanked), Indomitable will, Etc.
As an oracle you lose 5 spell levels. Your are allready lagging one spell level as a spontaneous caster. And an Oracle with the Lame Curse doesn't even need Moment of Clarity.
Pathfinder took the time to make all the core classes 20 lvl worthy. a player that sticks it out for 20 lvls should be given an edge over someone who PrC'ed out.
Just my opinion.
You mean people who multiclass should be punished?
Most adventures don't even run higher than 16 or 17 level. I don't think anyone wants the rage prophet do be as good as a barbarian AND with spells, but a crap PrC isn't the only option.
Heck, even the much disliked Eldritch Knight is better. It only loses 2 spell levels and 3 BAB.
Honestly, I don´t know why the ´convert spells to Rage Rounds´ ability wasn´t given earlier in the PrC, which is hardly over-powering since you´re trading one resource for another, and getting it so late makes Oracle-heavy builds much more frustrating... As is, Rage Prophets have both Rage Powers and Mysteries putting demands on their Feats, besides normal Combat Feats, so having to buy Extra Rage Rounds (on top of the required Moment of Clarity) is rather imposing.
For that matter, I don´t know why Moment of Clarity is required in the first place, if you don´t have it you won´t benefit from a few Rage Prophet abilities, but so what? Especially when several other abilities are about allowing you to cast certain spells WITHOUT using Moment of Clarity at all... For most Rage Prophets, it seems like casting in combat (Rage) is something they can reasonably avoid until they actually have lots of spells (and/or get the CON to DC ability), so why not let them pick it up Moment of Clarity when they DECIDE it is useful/appropriate (rather then requiring it to enter the PrC)?
I honestly have no idea what Zark is going on about the Lame Curse and Moment of Clarity.
Maybe he means Lame Curse means Tireless Rage (gained at Barbarian 14) isn´t needed...
Which ironically, is counter to the argument that Rage Prophet sucks,
and needs to grant Class Abilities and stack for Pre-Req purposes.
Rage Prophet also doesn´t have a problem with Saves, so that it doesn´t get Indomitable Will is just fine by me... Most Rage Prophet builds will look equivalent ot having 2 Good Saves in 1 single Class, and have more bonuses on top of that anyways... Nor is there much problem with to-hit, between spells and bonuses like the scaling Spirit Guide. Rage Prophets will probably end up with equal or higher Caster Level (vs. Casting progression), Concentration, and Spell DCs than other hybrid Caster PrCs.
Heck, even the much disliked Eldritch Knight is better. It only loses 2 spell levels and 3 BAB.
And gets zero class abilities (until it´s Capstone), scaling of base class abilities BESIDES BAB and Casting, and only synergizes re: qualifying for Fighter-only Feats, of which there aren´t that many... If ´Rage Prophet sucks as you level up, only getting good at high level´, Eldritch Knight is the same, but MORE SO. If you´re fixated that specific numbers may not be the same as Single Class builds, levelling up thru Rage Prophet may be frustrating, but you also get a ton of synergistic abilities, enough that I can say that playing thru APs or other material is absolutely do-able with a Rage Prophet. Wanting to have ´base´ numbers that look like ´full BAB dude and full Casting dude combined´ isn´t going to happen with Rage Prophet, but if you don´t have that expectation, it can be more than viable.
Going heavy Barb or Oracle, and possibly not even going all the way thru Rage Prophet, but ending up with Class Level 12+ in one of the base Classes is more than possible, and a very viable path as well, for those who can´t give up access to the most awesome Rage Powers/Mysteries... Almost certainly works better than just pure Barb/Oracle multi-classing.
I'm busy right now. I will reply in a couple of days.
Its not that i feel like multiclass people should be punished...but the core classes got some solid work done to them to make them worth sticking out for 20 lvls. Had WotC done the same thing we would not have seen every splat book have a new class. i can't remember a 3.5 game i have run that had a core class in it, they have been filled with warlocks, duskblades, dragon shamans, favored souls, and PrC's designed for them. I hope that Paizo doesn't head down the same road after making great steps to make base classes worth 20 lvls....PrC's should be about taking what has already been learned by the character moving it in a unique direction that does not out shine another character of equal lvl at the table. If not then why make the classes 20 lvls, just make them 5 lvl's with the plan on every one taking a PrC's to truly define their character.
Its not that i feel like multiclass people should be punished...but
But. But what? What you say, more or less, is that: go 20 or be punished.
A) PrC is a bout flavor. If people want flavour give it to them.B) warlocks, duskblades, dragon shamans, favored soul are not PrC. They are just options.
C) Most AP don't run as high as level 20.
D) I don't want a PrC to "out shine another character of equal lvl at the table". I just what a PrC to be a valid option.